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Author Topic: The Problem with terminators  (Read 2701 times)

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Offline Gal'rgae Neverborne

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Re: The Problem with terminators
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2019, 06:12:42 PM »
T5 Terminators as mentioned by GML brings them too close too to custodes.

A squad of terminators should feel like a squad of terminators, the subtle difference between Space Marnie terminators work in groups whereas Custodes work as a group of individuals.

The problems terminators have are (assuming the points were accurate)

Too Slow
Too Fragile
Not Enough damage output.
Don't Create Command points
Few Uses for them

Could we fix these, better deep strike options, more durability (without copy-pasting other "terminators" better damage output)

Being able to fire a storm bolter within 1"
Ability to gain a +1 to armour..... somehow... maybe based on them being "in the thick of it"?
Closer deep-strike
Turn 1 Deepstike
Re-Deepstrike
More Attacks
Ignoring -1 with Heavy Weapons
Ignoring -1 with Powerfist
Ignoring -1 with Thunder hammer


Not obviously all of the above... maybe some? Others?

« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 06:13:48 PM by Gal'rgae Neverborne »

Offline Killersquid

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Re: The Problem with terminators
« Reply #21 on: October 9, 2019, 12:00:44 PM »
I think they should just ignore rend -1. I think that'd make a huge difference.

I use them in my space wolves sometimes,  and they do work. I've come to really appreciate chainfists, especially when fighting marines. The +1 attack in the first round of combat helps a lot.
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Online Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: The Problem with terminators
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2020, 08:53:14 AM »
I think the question needs to be raised now that we've seen the previews for Ritual of the Damned as to whether it does enough to make Terminators (specifically Deathwing) viable?

It's an expensive combination, but if you're willing to spend 5 command points in one shot you can have a squad of 10 Terminators shooting twice (4cp if it is a 5 man unit), and deep striking close enough to the enemy to also pull off a reliable charge.  The Warlord trait also does help to make them a threat against vehicles.
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Offline Gal'rgae Neverborne

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Re: The Problem with terminators
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2020, 03:43:51 PM »
Just reading what you've written, there are three answers.

Does it make a (pure) Deathwing army for viable - Absolutely not.

Deathwing models just don't have the firepower to make shooting twice viable. To put this in context of how wrong GW has got Terminators in general, they've gone from 2 shots at 24" to, 4 Shots at 24" if stationary & 8 With command points to now 4" all the time and still shots with command points and they are still bunk. - Grade (E-)

Does it make a Death Raven army viable - No.

There's just no way a Death/Raven army is going to generate the command points (and use them pragmatically)  to pull this off, and the instances where you could do it, deep strike is too easy to screen off with cannon fodder, and the few instances you could do it with no obvious counter you're putting to many command points into this.. (F)

Does it help a Greenwing army? Well yeah, I've got to give you that as it's an option. But ultimately this is actually probably the worse use.

However, you'd need to take terminators, and enough to make it viable, and Ravenwing bikes, and fill out the FoC. And the points you're committing is now to great not to use this. And there will always be a better strategery for your army build - In the context to what you could have in a "greenwing army" (F-)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 03:47:17 PM by Gal'rgae Neverborne »

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Re: The Problem with terminators
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2020, 04:05:29 PM »
There is no way that a pure Deathwing list will ever be viable with Terminators in the state that they are.  I built a list that focuses around a shooty Deathwing-bomb, and it requires double Battalions to pull off.  Basically, it is a fun list to say "Look what I can do."  The only biker in the list is a Ravenwing Apothecary whose only job is to survive until turn 2.

2nd turn looks something like this:
  • Switch to Tactical Doctrine
  • -2 Command Points:  Combined Assault to bring in 10 Terminators w/ 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers with Belial right behind them
  • -3 CP:  Deathwing Assault
  • -1 CP:  Fury of the First in Movment Phase
  • -1 CP:  Fury of the First in Shooting Phase
  • -1 CP:  Adaptive Strategy in 3rd turn.

Cute, but definitely not worth the commitment.  Sadly, Ritual of the Damned continues the trend that the most efficient Dark Angel army is still one that is centred around the 2nd Company.  Thanks to Impeccable Mobility, I'm looking at a list that has 8 Land Speeders, including the Dark Shroud (Sammy, 2 Talonmasters, 2 Tornadoes, 2 Typhoons, Darkshroud).
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
Well I always liked the globals...
I knew I had fans!!!

Quote
"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

 


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