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Author Topic: Aspect warrior list for review: 2000pts  (Read 859 times)

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Offline nevaenuffbass

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Aspect warrior list for review: 2000pts
« on: November 10, 2018, 08:57:46 PM »
I'm seeking feedback on the below list.
I'm not sure about the warp spiders in particular, but included them for the *free* coming from reserves, to supplement the guardian blob but with S6.

So basic strategy - asurmans bubble invulnerable save is central. Having two battalions I have a heap of command points to buff the guardian blob.

Hoping the wave serpents are the target of the enemy turn 1, and I'll use the alaitoc ability and vectors engines to give-2 to hit, hoping to use the stratagem for multiple shots with the spent shield, and smite to deal with high T targets.

If I had a second crimson Hunter of take it but I only open the one.
Asurman is also my counter close combat unit. He is expensive but I'm hoping my list maximises his strengths.
I've take doom twice because I can't afford for it not to go off when the guardians come from webway portal.




++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [31 PL, 633pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Biel-Tan: Swordwind

+ HQ +

Asurmen [9 PL, 175pts]

Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, 140pts]: 1. Guide, 2. Doom, Shuriken Pistol, Singing Spear, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 64pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 64pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

Guardian Defenders [9 PL, 190pts]: 20x Guardian Defender
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Shuriken Cannon
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Shuriken Cannon

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [72 PL, 1366pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

+ HQ +

Autarch [4 PL, 99pts]: Banshee Mask, Forceshield, Reaper Launcher, Star Glaive

Farseer [6 PL, 110pts]: 2. Doom, 3. Fortune, Craftworlds Warlord, Faolchu's Wing, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 64pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 64pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 64pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

+ Fast Attack +

Shining Spears [10 PL, 157pts]
. 4x Shining Spear: 4x Laser Lance, 4x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch: Star Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Warp Spiders [9 PL, 152pts]
. 7x Warp Spider: 7x Death Spinner
. Warp Spider Exarch: Two Death Spinners

+ Heavy Support +

Dark Reapers [7 PL, 173pts]
. 4x Dark Reaper: 4x Reaper Launcher
. Dark Reaper Exarch: Aeldari Missile Launcher

+ Flyer +

Crimson Hunter Exarch [9 PL, 175pts]: Two Bright Lances

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 154pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Vectored Engines

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 154pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Vectored Engines

++ Total: [103 PL, 1999pts] ++

Army list builder link removed - Iris.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 06:20:35 AM by Irisado »

Offline SeekingOne

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Re: Aspect warrior list for review: 2000pts
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2018, 03:28:02 AM »
Hi!

The evaluation of this list, as usual, really depends on how competitive you plan to be. Seeing that you tried to optimise your list by grouping units into detachments with the most efficient Craftworld special rules, I assume you're aiming at something like a solid tournament-capable force - and so I will be commenting from this point of view. If you aim for purely fun and friendly games, then you really can play with whatever units you like most.

I'm not sure about the warp spiders in particular, but included them for the *free* coming from reserves, to supplement the guardian blob but with S6.
Warp Spiders are among the few "meh" units in the codex. S6 doesn't make much difference, so damage output of a Warp Spider isn't all that different from that of a Dire Avenger. In my experience they aren't worth their points. If you already have models purchased and painted, then by all means try them out. But if not - I wouldn't bother with them if I were you.

Quote
So basic strategy - asurmans bubble invulnerable save is central. Having two battalions I have a heap of command points to buff the guardian blob.
Having 2 battalions is most certainly a good thing.

Quote
Hoping the wave serpents are the target of the enemy turn 1, and I'll use the alaitoc ability and vectors engines to give-2 to hit, hoping to use the stratagem for multiple shots with the spent shield, and smite to deal with high T targets.
Note that the stratagem you mention can only be used if a Serpent's shield was fired off in your previous turn.

Quote
I've take doom twice because I can't afford for it not to go off when the guardians come from webway portal.
You know that in a Matched Play game you can't attempt to cast the same psychic power twice, right?




Quote
Autarch [4 PL, 99pts]: Banshee Mask, Forceshield, Reaper Launcher, Star Glaive
With the change brought by the recent Big FAQ 2, Autarchs are pretty useless. You can only generate 1 extra CP per battle round, meaning that realistically you cannot count on getting more than 1 extra CP for his Path of Command ability. And apart from that, neither his buff for rerolling 1s, nor his mediocre damage output are worth the points investment.
I'd suggest to replace him with a single warlock with Protect/Jinx - OR, if you're feeling adventurous, a Conclave of 2 warlocks with Protect/Jinx & Quicken/Restrain. Jinx is invaluable for taking down targets with high Invulnerable saves, Quicken can be extremely useful for giving your Shining Spears a 1st-turn charge - and if you field a conclave, you'll be able to use a stratagem to Jinx stuff up to 36" away.
Warlocks are also very useful for Seer Council stratagem.
If you decide to replace Autarch with just 1 warlock, the free points can be used to add a 6th Shining Spear.

Quote
Farseer [6 PL, 110pts]: 2. Doom, 3. Fortune, Craftworlds Warlord, Faolchu's Wing, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade
This configuration is fine if you decide to replace Autarch with Warlock(s). Otherwise I wouldn't bother with an extra Doom and take Executioner instead.

+ Fast Attack +

Quote
Warp Spiders [9 PL, 152pts]
. 7x Warp Spider: 7x Death Spinner
. Warp Spider Exarch: Two Death Spinners
This is an ok configuration, but I generall wouldn't bother with them (see my comment above).

Quote
Shining Spears [10 PL, 157pts]
. 4x Shining Spear: 4x Laser Lance, 4x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch: Star Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult
Since you already have a Biel-Tan detachment anyway, I'd consider making these guys Biel-Tan as well. This will give you an interesting option of putting both Guardians and Spears into Webway. Once they arrive, you can use the Biel-Tan stratagem to add +2" to the Spears' assault, turning 9" charge into 7" charge, which is pretty realistic.

Quote
Dark Reapers [7 PL, 173pts]
. 4x Dark Reaper: 4x Reaper Launcher
. Dark Reaper Exarch: Aeldari Missile Launcher
You certainly don't want an AEML on your exarch, Tempest Launcher or a regular Reaper launcher are far better.

Hope this helps :)
I fight against Chaos and for Order, because it means fighting for Life against Death. There is no other battle truly worth fighting.

"If it's not for a tournament then play whatever it is that you like. Without the pressure of having to utterly destroy your opponent it opens up alot more opportunity to have fun." - Lazarus

Offline Fenris

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Re: Aspect warrior list for review: 2000pts
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2018, 07:49:46 AM »
Hey, it's a decent list. I think this list is fine...for a friendly game.
Don't get me wrong, some options are solid, but several improvements could easily be made I believe.

Asurmen + Avengers is the core of your army. Why have 5 man units of avengers when your can have 10? -Large units are much easier to keep within Asurmens 6" bubble. (Note Asurmen does not have to be the same detachment as his staff.)

Having Biel-tan guardians is not bad, but having them as Ulthwés black guardians is even better, you can even grant the guardians the same shooting bonus by keeping an ulthwé autarch nearby.

So you should consider making the second detachment Ulthwé rather than Alaitoc. Either way I think the shining spears should be Biel-tan to amp up their shurikens and some rangers would be a better choice of warp spiders, as that allows you to beef up the Biel-tan avenger units.

As for the Wave serpents I'm a bit confused in what you are going to put inside of them, reapers + avengers in one, sure, but what about the other?

Regarding psychic powers, Guide is rather wasted on this list, so is double doom, but a jetlock with jinx/prot would do you good.
Protect + celestial shield, is powerful and jinx against ++ saves is great as SeekingOne pointed out.


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Offline SeekingOne

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Re: Aspect warrior list for review: 2000pts
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2018, 03:26:41 AM »
Fenris got some great ideas there actually. I didn't look that deep myself, but having read his post I'm positively amazed with the list's potential.

So, if you incorporate some of his (and mine) suggestions, an altered list might look like this:

Quote
Detachment: Battalion (Biel-Tan)
HQ 1: Asurmen
HQ 2: Farseer Skyrunner (Witchblade) (Executioner, Will of Asurian)

Troops 1: 10 Dire Avengers (Exarch, Avenger shuricat)
Troops 2: 10 Dire Avengers (Exarch, Avenger shuricat)
Troops 3: 10 Dire Avengers (Exarch, Avenger shuricat)

Fast Attack 1: 7 Shining Spears (Exarch, Star lance)

Detachment: Battalion (Ulthwe)
HQ 1: Farseer (Witchblade) (Doom, Fortune)
HQ 2: Warlock (Witchblade) (Protect/Jinx)

Troops 1: 5 Rangers
Troops 2: 5 Rangers
Troops 3: 20 Guardian Defenders (2 x Platform, 2 x Shuriken cannon)

Heavy Support 1: 5 Dark Reapers (Exarch, Reaper launcher)

Flyers 1: Crimson Hunter Exarch (2 x Bright lance)

Transports 1: Wave Serpent (Vectored engines, Shuriken cannon (upg.), Twin shuriken cannon)
Transports 2: Wave Serpent (Vectored engines, Shuriken cannon (upg.), Twin shuriken cannon)

Total: 1997

OR, if you still absolutely want an Autarch, then you can re-arrange HQ section in the following super-optimised manner:

Quote
Detachment: Battalion (Biel-Tan)
HQ 1: Farseer Skyrunner (Witchblade)
- Doom, Will of Asuryan
HQ 2: Warlock Skyrunner (Witchblade)
- Protect/Jinx
- Spirit stone of Anath'lan (Biel-Tan relic)

Troops 1: 10 Dire Avengers (Exarch, Avenger shuricat)
Troops 2: 10 Dire Avengers (Exarch, Avenger shuricat)
Troops 3: 10 Dire Avengers (Exarch, Avenger shuricat)

Fast Attack 1: 7 Shining Spears (Exarch w/Laser lance)

Detachment: Battalion (Ulthwe)
HQ 1: Asurmen
HQ 2: Autarch (Banshee mask, Star glaive, Reaper launcher)
- Warlord, trait: Fate Reader

Troops 1: 5 Rangers
Troops 2: 5 Rangers
Troops 3: 20 Guardian Defenders (2 x Platform, 2 x Shuriken cannon)

Heavy Support 1: 5 Dark Reapers (Exarch, Reaper launcher)

Flyers 1: Crimson Hunter Exarch (2 x Bright lance)

Transports 1: Wave Serpent (Vectored engines, Shuriken cannon (upg.), Twin shuriken cannon)
Transports 2: Wave Serpent (Vectored engines, Shuriken cannon (upg.), Twin shuriken cannon)

Total: 1999

In this second list HQ looks kind of un-fluffy, but it's really efficient. (And BTW, the fact that the most efficient application of the Craftworlds' rules, stratagems and relics goes almost directly against fluff shows just how poorly those rules, stratagems and relics are designed. Oh well.)
Anyway, Warlock goes into Biel-Tan detachment because the best relic for a Warlock - the Spirit Stone of Anath'lan - is a Biel-Tan relic for some reason. An option of rerolling a failed psychic test makes Warlock much more reliable. As for the Farseer, detachment doesn't really matter for him, but it's better to keep him in the same detachment as the Warlock, as this enables the Seer Council stratagem.
Then, an Autarch still makes some sense as a CP-generator if he's taken in an Ulthwe detachment with the warlord trait Fate Reader. Per RAW, Fate Reader is the only trait in the game that potentially allows you to generate more than 1 extra CP per battle round.

As for psy powers, Doom is your primary force multiplier, and Protect/Jinx is great for de-buffing targets with high Invulns or for buffing Shining Spears and Guardians.  On the other hand, Guide is of relatively little utility, as Guardians will have +1 to hit from Ulthwe stratagem, while nearly all other shooty units would be rerolling 1s. Will of Asuryan however might be great for preventing those pesky morale checks on large infantry squads, and if it's unnecessary then you can just Smite away.

I'd love to try such list myself  ;D if only I had that many painted infantry...
I fight against Chaos and for Order, because it means fighting for Life against Death. There is no other battle truly worth fighting.

"If it's not for a tournament then play whatever it is that you like. Without the pressure of having to utterly destroy your opponent it opens up alot more opportunity to have fun." - Lazarus

Offline nevaenuffbass

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Re: Aspect warrior list for review: 2000pts
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2018, 09:38:37 PM »
Thank you both for your suggestions. They are great.

I played the list, and surprised myself with an easy win.

Your comments about making the shining spears Biel tan is excellent and I hadn't considered it.

The reason for fire Avengers in minimum units are:
1 - less of a commitment to score objectives
2 - fills out core slots for double battalion
3 - it is slightly more points efficient, 64 points can get an exarch with 2 shuricats and 4 Avengers, which is the same wounds and output as 6 Avengers.
4 - units of 5 are easier to hide from LOS.

Any how, the Avengers were great. S4 shuriken fire seems more useful than ever, wounding T7 on 5s and that all important -3 AP on 6s. If mounted or on for the extra range over guardians is important.

Asurman and his buff, well, the first change is make is to drop asurman for warlocks, and is consider the same about the autarch.
4++ is not really that useful, I found, at least not in infantry. Asurman is also kinda slow.

The benefit of warp spiders, I found, was that T2 / T3 alpha strike can consist of 2 units in the webway and the spiders. The same can be achieved with war Walkers, which give a comparable number of S6 shots of you take shuricannons.

Guide is a useful power, although probably not on the same harder as doom.
I used it on crimson Hunter (who was down to two wounds, hampering its accuracy), dark reapers and shining spears. I'm all cases, it provided an effective boost to firepower, be and allowed me to take down a second target (the first being the doomed one).
In future I'll have one farseer with guide / fortune who will probably stay back. The second will take doom and executioner.

I still wonder if doom is worth taking twice, even if it can only be cast once.... In any army that relies on S4/6 shuriken weapons, it is pretty integral to the army's effectiveness.

I'm on the fence regarding the autarch.
His buff, combined with the Warlord trait of ignoring morale tests (bubble) is really good for Biel tan guardians.

I doubt that I'd take ulthwe over alaitoc.the latter trait's effect on wave serpents and the crimson hunters (and Rangers if I took them) ads considerably to their ability to withstand a round of firepower.

Regarding the wave serpents, in this game they carried dire Avengers. But that was because there was some good LOS blocking terrain in my deployment zone allowing me to use the fire and fade stratagem on my dark reapers.
Otherwise, that's probably have ridden in a serpent.

In my next post I'll provide my amended list for your interest.


Post Merge: November 15, 2018, 10:24:42 PM
In the future, please use the modify button. Double posting is against the forum rules, and for that reason, the system merged your posts.

New proposed list, for your consideration.

Howling banshees are there to tie something up for a turn, or remove the Overwatch from whatever the shining spears want to charge.

Advice on Warlord trait and pets is very welcome.


Game plan will generally be about the T2 / 3 strike, where guardians (and maybe shining spears) come from webway, and war Walkers come from reserve. Crimson Hunter is a likely beneficiary of the -1 to hit stratagem, dark reapers will hopefully for and fade.




++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [49 PL, 976pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Biel-Tan: Swordwind

+ HQ +

Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, 135pts]: 2. Doom, 4. Executioner, 6: Seer of the Shifting Vector, Craftworlds Warlord, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade

Warlock [2 PL, 55pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 64pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 64pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

Guardian Defenders [9 PL, 190pts]: 20x Guardian Defender
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Shuriken Cannon
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Shuriken Cannon

+ Elites +

Howling Banshees [3 PL, 70pts]
. 4x Howling Banshee: 4x Power Sword
. Howling Banshee Exarch: Shuriken Pistol & Triskele (INDEX)

+ Fast Attack +

Shining Spears [10 PL, 188pts]
. 5x Shining Spear: 5x Laser Lance, 5x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch: Star Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Heavy Support +

War Walkers [8 PL, 140pts]
. War Walker: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon
. War Walker: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

War Walkers [4 PL, 70pts]
. War Walker: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [53 PL, 1024pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

+ HQ +

Farseer [6 PL, 110pts]: 1. Guide, 3. Fortune, Faolchu's Wing, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 70pts]: 5. Quicken/Restrain, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 64pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 64pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger

+ Heavy Support +

Dark Reapers [7 PL, 173pts]
. 4x Dark Reaper: 4x Reaper Launcher
. Dark Reaper Exarch: Aeldari Missile Launcher

+ Flyer +

Crimson Hunter Exarch [9 PL, 175pts]: Two Bright Lances

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 154pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Vectored Engines

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 154pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Vectored Engines

++ Total: [102 PL, 2000pts] ++

Excessive stats and rules descriptions removed in accordance with forum rule 1.  Link to forum building software also removed (please see forum rule 6 for details) - Iris.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 08:32:23 AM by Irisado »

Offline Partninja

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Re: Aspect warrior list for review: 2000pts
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2018, 10:33:05 PM »
The problem with Warp Spiders is they don't synergize well. Due to their short range (or if you reserve them) Alaitoc is wasted. The only other really useful trait is Ulthwe for some added durability.

Now let's compare them to Windriders with shuriken cannons. Essentially the same weapon but an extra shot and double the range. Combine that with a model that can move a reliable distance and they can easily reach whatever target they like so don't need to be kept in reserves. Can more easily take advantage of Alaitoc trait or even Biel-tan if you want to be more aggressive. A unit of 6 riders is two less total shots but a good amount of points less. Some pros and cons when comparing durability.

I've been recently trying vanilla Windriders with their twin-catapults in aggressive Biel-tan detachments. 5-man units is just as powerful as 10 guardians or Avengers but don't require a transport. You do need to get closer but threat range is decent. When taking maxed out squads you can put out quite a bit of damage...the weight of fire makes up for the strength difference between the cannon and catapult. Also saves a good chunk of points.

Something to consider when looking at your Warp Spiders

 


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