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Author Topic: First game back Vs Tau - 2000 list  (Read 1187 times)

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Offline l33t

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First game back Vs Tau - 2000 list
« on: September 18, 2018, 07:43:06 AM »
Hi members, long time player making a comeback after 15 years. This will be my first game back and my first of 8th, playing an experienced Tau player.

My list is based on the army I have, which is limited, and I am looking for advice on what I am likely to face from Tau and help in getting the most out of what I have.

I will also let you know what I am planning on buying and fielding next.


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [100 PL, 2000pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

Treasures of the Craftworld (1 Relic)

+ HQ +

Farseer [6 PL, 110pts]: 1. Guide, 3. Fortune, 4: Fate's Messenger, Craftworlds Warlord, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, 135pts]: 2. Doom, 4. Executioner, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade

Warlock [2 PL, 55pts]: 5. Quicken/Restrain, Faolchu's Wing, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 64pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 64pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

Guardian Defenders [9 PL, 160pts]: 20x Guardian Defender

+ Elites +

Wraithguard [11 PL, 225pts]: D-scythe, 5x Wraithguard

+ Fast Attack +

Shining Spears [10 PL, 188pts]
. 5x Shining Spear: 5x Laser Lance, 5x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch: Star Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Heavy Support +

Dark Reapers [13 PL, 345pts]
. 9x Dark Reaper: 9x Reaper Launcher
. Dark Reaper Exarch: Tempest Launcher

War Walkers [4 PL, 70pts]
. War Walker: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

War Walkers [4 PL, 70pts]
. War Walker: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

+ Flyer +

Crimson Hunter Exarch [9 PL, 165pts]: Two Starcannons

Hemlock Wraithfighter [10 PL, 210pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, Spirit Stones

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 139pts]: Twin Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Vectored Engines

++ Total: [100 PL, 2000pts] ++

Plan is to webway Reapers and Guardians, and reserve the war walkers. Deploy spears and wave serpent in cover with the wraithguard inside, and the foot characters to reduce drops and try win turn 1. If I don’t, pray the cover saves me.
On my turn, characters jump out and reapers drop with dire avenger screen (if they survive). Spears aim for the biggest shooty target,  and move. Warlock targets them with quicken (saving command reroll for this). Farseer and serpent move up outside 15” from fire warriors, farseer dooms priority target. Wave serpent and crimson hunter protect sky runner farseer from being the closest, while hemlock looks for Opportunity.

If I get doom and guide on the reapers off, with jinx from hemlock, i think I can target and kill a storm surge with reaper and  crimson hunter fire, with help from the spears if they get close enough with room to charge. Potentially I could try clear a gap in the fire warrior screen by shooting my limited infantry fire at the screen closes to the big robots.

Guardians and WW come in supporting twhatever is left after the inevitable reprisal, with the wraithguard.

I feel like I need more anti infantry and also more sustain(but I think sustain is just never going to be something Eldar are good at)

My expansion is to replace the WW with another unit of 6 spears, reducing the size of the guardian unit to make up the points difference.

Is this a good plan for Tau, boost the bikes to hit the big robots to keep them quiet, pick off the big guns with the reapers, hunter and hemlock, and the infantry with the rest.

Looking forward to your comments

Removed link to fix formatting issues - Iris.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 01:42:41 PM by Irisado »

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: First game back Vs Tau - 2000 list
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2018, 08:32:17 AM »
Honestly...
 you are probably going to murder Tau.

-1 to hit really hurts them

Psychic powers really hurt them

Reapers don't need to WWP. Hide them out of los then move them turn 1. They always hit on a fixed die so moving doesn't impact them any

Defender bomb is powerful, but its a 1-shot pony. You will lose them afterwards.

Overall, the list is fairly decent.

Make sure you charge the spears from behind LOS terrain to not take overwatch. And smite and executioner are brutal to tau.
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline l33t

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Re: First game back Vs Tau - 2000 list
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2018, 10:42:33 AM »
Thank you Faitherun. A good option to save CPs if the board allows it, rather than just spending them regardless.

I may try to rework the list to find 10pts to take the warlock and make her a spiritseer for the additional smite as highlighted.

The person I am playing is a crafty player by all accounts and promised not to take it easy on me, and since he knows I am painting eldar I expect a few tricks to negate the negative hits and my speed.

Offline Rhyleth

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Re: First game back Vs Tau - 2000 list
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2018, 07:53:40 PM »
Thank you Faitherun. A good option to save CPs if the board allows it, rather than just spending them regardless.

I may try to rework the list to find 10pts to take the warlock and make her a spiritseer for the additional smite as highlighted.

The person I am playing is a crafty player by all accounts and promised not to take it easy on me, and since he knows I am painting eldar I expect a few tricks to negate the negative hits and my speed.

I'll be interested to hear what he settles on. He might go closer-range with battlesuits, Stealths, Piranhas and/or transported Breachers, as if he gets into 12" (and given that you have a shortage of cc power) the Tau could well have the edge.

Offline l33t

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Re: First game back Vs Tau - 2000 list
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2018, 10:44:31 PM »
I will let you know, he does have crisis and stealth available. I hope to be able to use forewarned on the reapers to deal with crisis suits, but this will mean less firepower directed at his gunline in turn 2.

I agree that my list lacks CC punch in the mid field, and have been thinking about switching the D-scythes for Axe and sheild (I have both models) with the warlock moving to spiritseer for reroll1 and casting protect.
This means I can’t boost the spears with quicken T1 but I can protect them, and if they stay outside of 15” and double/triple tap for the fire warriors I can hopefully survive. Bonus if he moves them forward and opens a gap in his lines for my hemlock and surviving spears to jump into.

I do feel like the scythes can just do more but maybe the axe/sheilds are the better option to soak damage (2+\3++) and provide another cc option.

Offline SeekingOne

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Re: First game back Vs Tau - 2000 list
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2018, 07:27:54 PM »
Hi!

You've got a core of a great list there, with a couple of choices that I'd qualify as sub-optimal.

1. Hemlock - I wouldn't bother with fielding just one. Once it gets in range, it will be shot down very quickly, too quickly for its steep cost. In my experience, with Hemlocks it is either take three or none at all.

2. Crimson Hunter Exarch- starcannons are a waste. And the exarch upgrade itself isn't that necessary. A regular CH is just as good and points can be better spent elsewhere.

3. War Walkers- these guys are nice but undergunned. I'd drop both and replace them either with the 3rd Crimson Hunter or a second Wave Serpent.

4. Wraithguard - these also are that kind of unit that looks cool on paper but doesn't pull its weight in practice. These guys are prime candidates to be replaced with the second squad of Shining Spears.

5. Psykers - having 2 Farseers and 1 warlock is not as practical as 1 Farseer and 2 warlocks. I'd take one Farseer with Doom and Guide, and 1 extra warlock with Protect/Jinx.
Keep your warlocks close to Farseer at all times in order to use Seer Council stratagem - it is invaluable for making sure Warlock's power goes off.

Quote
I agree that my list lacks CC punch in the mid field, and have been thinking about switching the D-scythes for Axe and sheild (I have both models) with the warlock moving to spiritseer for reroll1 and casting protect.
CC punch doesn't exist nowadays for Eldar. The only good unit with CC capability are Shining Spears, and even they are better at shooting and tend to die in CC against anything that can fight back. And all Wraithblades are simply way too slow and expensive.

Imho anyway :) Good luck with the Tau! The outcome totally depends on how many Riptides, Broadsides and Shield drones your opponent brings.
I fight against Chaos and for Order, because it means fighting for Life against Death. There is no other battle truly worth fighting.

"If it's not for a tournament then play whatever it is that you like. Without the pressure of having to utterly destroy your opponent it opens up alot more opportunity to have fun." - Lazarus

Offline Rhyleth

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Re: First game back Vs Tau - 2000 list
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2018, 08:52:31 PM »
Hi!

You've got a core of a great list there, with a couple of choices that I'd qualify as sub-optimal.

1. Hemlock - I wouldn't bother with fielding just one. Once it gets in range, it will be shot down very quickly, too quickly for its steep cost. In my experience, with Hemlocks it is either take three or none at all.

I default to taking a Hemlock so didn't really think of this, and mine tend to last game-long, but I'm not used to playing vs. Tau. Given the weapons' short range this could well be the case. In general I'd expect D-flamers to be relatively inefficient vs. Tau - they're significant overkill vs. the infantry, you certainly aren't going to be overwatching against attackers, and they're not as good against vehicles or battlesuits as AT weapons would be.

Quote
2. Crimson Hunter Exarch- starcannons are a waste. And the exarch upgrade itself isn't that necessary. A regular CH is just as good and points can be better spent elsewhere.

Starcannons ought to be decent against Tau, but I don't really see the point of ever using them on Crimson Hunters - it's a very expensive platform for them and the vehicle is intended to be a tank-hunter.

Quote
3. War Walkers- these guys are nice but undergunned. I'd drop both and replace them either with the 3rd Crimson Hunter or a second Wave Serpent.

I wonder whether they're a better option with EMLs or scatter lasers. Shuriken cannon seem shorter-ranged than is ideal vs. Tau. I've never yet tried my Walkers so am keen to see how they work out. Invulnerable saves should be welcome vs. Tau and they can keep their distance.

Quote
4. Wraithguard - these also are that kind of unit that looks cool on paper but doesn't pull its weight in practice. These guys are prime candidates to be replaced with the second squad of Shining Spears.

I saw a lot of enthusiasm about Wraithguard with 40k8 so invested in some, and so far my results generally bear this out. They're attractive for the weapons and for being able to fall back and fire, and for soaking up a lot of damage.

Quote
I agree that my list lacks CC punch in the mid field, and have been thinking about switching the D-scythes for Axe and sheild (I have both models) with the warlock moving to spiritseer for reroll1 and casting protect.
CC punch doesn't exist nowadays for Eldar. The only good unit with CC capability are Shining Spears, and even they are better at shooting and tend to die in CC against anything that can fight back. And all Wraithblades are simply way too slow and expensive. [/quote]

I've been having good results with Striking Scorpions, and they should be well-suited to tying up Tau infantry - but I'd be wary of suggesting them against Tau overwatch, as while they're tough for Eldar they are still Eldar.

Offline l33t

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Re: First game back Vs Tau - 2000 list
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2018, 03:08:55 AM »
I had a thought that I need advice on.
If I went for an autarch skyrunner, and gave him “an eye on distant events” to stop overwatch I thought this would be very helpful.
However, the FTGG rule for Tau states that any unit within 6” of the charge target can fire overwatch as if they were the target of the charge.

My question, if the autarch charges and makes it into a unit and then the shining spears charge, can the supporting Tau units still use FTGG on the spears despite the fact that the autarch is already in contact with the target unit?

Thanks all.

Offline SeekingOne

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Re: First game back Vs Tau - 2000 list
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2018, 09:57:38 AM »
Unfortunately, yes.

Only those units that the Autarch actually manages to tie in close combat won't be able to overwatch, other would be able to overwatch against Spears as normal.
I fight against Chaos and for Order, because it means fighting for Life against Death. There is no other battle truly worth fighting.

"If it's not for a tournament then play whatever it is that you like. Without the pressure of having to utterly destroy your opponent it opens up alot more opportunity to have fun." - Lazarus

Offline Dread

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Re: First game back Vs Tau - 2000 list
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2018, 10:24:33 PM »
Drukhari allies. Wraith blades plus raider = tremendous fun.

This is a hard one for sure. If you don't like mix-n-match and play pure, don't forget banshee mask. Scat bikes are very effective against tau, most at mies actually as well a shur.cannon bikes. Saim Hann has a good craftworld bonus as well.

Harlis can be a good add as well. Great save, solid weapon choices but made for in your face action.

The Web way gate, while beautiful model, points wise really not worth it. To many negative variables, this is just my opinion. I own it and love but....

"Burning thru the universe in search of peace only brings more war. Peace is an illusion, war is reality, that is the way of things"

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Offline l33t

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Re: First game back Vs Tau - 2000 list
« Reply #10 on: October 1, 2018, 12:56:12 AM »
Ok, so as mentioned by the team helping me, Alaitoc and Eldar are not good for Tau. We called it at the end of Turn 3. He had long strike, a devil fish and 2 depleted strike teams left and I had not lost a full unit. I think he took it easy on me as he had minimal marker lights and no heavy suits.

He brought stealth, strike teams, kroot, crisis suits, long strike and ionhead.

He had first turn and couldn’t do anything to me at the range I was at, I wiped out all of his stealth teams and the Ionhead in my turn. He dropped his suits and my forewarned reapers wiped them out (he didn’t know about the strategem as he hadn’t played eldar in 8). My hemlock toasted his fireblade and ethereal as he left a gap when moving his warriors forward to get into Rapid fire.

Every 50:50 went my way, and while great to get a win first up, the game didn’t really give me any situation where what I wanted to have happen, didn’t.

Next up is a knights and AM list, I want to learn to play hard so one of the guys who was watching the game is bringing a tough one.

I expect to get “pants’d” here, but that’s how you learn. I guess in this game it will be shoot the Knights with the reapers, flyers and spears, every thing else at the AM. Hold the guardians to bubble the reapers and invest protective psychic and stratagems into them.

Thanks again for the support everyone

Offline SeekingOne

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Re: First game back Vs Tau - 2000 list
« Reply #11 on: October 1, 2018, 07:32:30 AM »
He brought stealth, strike teams, kroot, crisis suits, long strike and ionhead.
This means you've been facing a super-soft list. Crisis suits in particular are probably among the worst units in the whole 40k in terms of efficiency/points ratio.

The only thing that makes a strong list in the current Tau codex is the combination of heavy suits (Broadsides or Riptides) with multiple (at least 15+) shield drones to absorb damage.
As I said earlier:
The outcome totally depends on how many Riptides, Broadsides and Shield drones your opponent brings.
He didn't bring any, so it's no surprise that you tabled him.

Quote
Next up is a knights and AM list, I want to learn to play hard so one of the guys who was watching the game is bringing a tough one.

I expect to get “pants’d” here, but that’s how you learn. I guess in this game it will be shoot the Knights with the reapers, flyers and spears, every thing else at the AM. Hold the guardians to bubble the reapers and invest protective psychic and stratagems into them.
That might be tough. Remember that Jinx is our most valuable tool for taking out Knights. Without it you'll be pressed very hard indeed.

Are you going to use the new Big FAQ 2? It might be easier if you do, as it nerfs the CP regen and makes some of the strongest Knights stratagems more expensive.

And what is the final list you settled on?


I fight against Chaos and for Order, because it means fighting for Life against Death. There is no other battle truly worth fighting.

"If it's not for a tournament then play whatever it is that you like. Without the pressure of having to utterly destroy your opponent it opens up alot more opportunity to have fun." - Lazarus

Offline l33t

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Re: First game back Vs Tau - 2000 list
« Reply #12 on: October 3, 2018, 06:57:55 PM »
We settled on 1500 pets rather than 2000, I went with farseer, warlock, 2 Dire Avengers in a wave serpent, guardians, spears, reapers, crimson hunter, hemlock.

Here is what I am thinking for my 2000 list, it will require me to build and paint unit 3 and 4 of the fire avengers and the second wave serpent, but I have 4 weeks so I think I can get it done l(3 kids).


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [70 PL, 1440pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

Gametype: Matched

The Path of War

Treasures of the Craftworld (1 Relic)

+ HQ +

Farseer [6 PL, 110pts]: 1. Guide, 3. Fortune, 6: Seer of the Shifting Vector, Craftworlds Warlord, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

Warlock [2 PL, 55pts]: 1. Conceal/Reveal, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 64pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 64pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

Guardian Defenders [5 PL, 95pts]: 10x Guardian Defender
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Shuriken Cannon

+ Fast Attack +

Shining Spears [10 PL, 188pts]
. 5x Shining Spear: 5x Laser Lance, 5x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch: Star Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Heavy Support +

Dark Reapers [13 PL, 345pts]
. 9x Dark Reaper: 9x Reaper Launcher
. Dark Reaper Exarch: Tempest Launcher

+ Flyer +

Crimson Hunter Exarch [9 PL, 165pts]: Two Starcannons

Hemlock Wraithfighter [10 PL, 210pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, Spirit Stones

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 144pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Cannon

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [29 PL, 557pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

+ HQ +

Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, 135pts]: 2. Doom, 4. Executioner, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade

Warlock [2 PL, 55pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, Faolchu's Wing, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 64pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 64pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

Guardian Defenders [5 PL, 95pts]: 10x Guardian Defender
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Shuriken Cannon

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 144pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Cannon

++ Total: [99 PL, 1997pts] ++

Focus is on having protection for the reapers for 2 turns (conceal and fortune), and the mobility to get around the Knights and into the squishies with the wave serpents. I have 2 sources of jinx for redundancy but likely to protect the spears in turn 1 to help the survive. Guided reapers on a doomed and jinxed knight with the flyers weighing in should net me a knight in the first turn with a little luck.

I have a 5 man unit of fire dragons, but from what I have seen in bat reps they don’t hit hard enough in 1 turn of shooting to make their points back, especially when they are very likely to be toast in my opponents turn of shooting.
I will definitely add either another crimson hunter or Hemlock as members have suggested, eventually. I just need to save more hobby $ :)

Like with the tau, my focus on the list is mobility with reliable long range firepower and harassment. I think this list as it is is ok vs Tau, but I am worried about the Knights.

Considering what I do have, I would like to evolve this into a core of a list I will be playing in a local tournament in November and would love your feedback.

 


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