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Author Topic: 1750 all comers list - feedback wanted  (Read 486 times)

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Offline SeekingOne

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1750 all comers list - feedback wanted
« on: June 18, 2018, 06:33:45 PM »
Hi All!

To make long story short, I'm in dire need of advice on how to improve and optimise my 1750 Craftworlds list that I'm planning to take to a local event in the end of July.

I did put up a sizeable wall of text in my project blog recently, detailing my approach to collecting and painting stuff as well as building armies, so I wouldn't repeat it here and get straight to the lists. Please note that a list of the units that I currently have complete and battle-ready is also in the linked Project Blog post.

So, a decent (in my opinion) 1750 list that uses only those models that I currently have painted and battle-ready would probably look like this:

Quote
Battalion Detachment (Alaitoc)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
HQ 1: Farseer (Witchblade) - [110]
HQ 2: Maugan Ra - [140]
 
Troops 1: 5 Dire Avengers (Exarch, Dual avenger shuricat) - [64]
Troops 2: 5 Dire Avengers - [60]
Troops 3: 5 Rangers - [60]
 
Heavy Support 1: 5 Dark Reapers (Exarch, Tempest launcher) - [175]
 
Transports 1: Wave Serpent (Spirit stone, Shuriken cannon (upg.), Twin shuriken cannon) - [144]
 
Outrider Detachment (Saim-Hann)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
HQ 1: Warlock Skyrunner (Witchblade) - [70]
 
Fast Attack 1: 3 Windriders (3 x Scatter laser) - [84]
Fast Attack 2: 3 Windriders (3 x Scatter laser) - [84]
Fast Attack 3: 3 Windriders (3 x Scatter laser) - [84]
Fast Attack 4: 6 Shining Spears (Exarch, Star lance) - [188]
 
Air Wing (Alaitoc)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 Flyers 1: Crimson Hunter - [160]
Flyers 2: Crimson Hunter - [160]
Flyers 3: Crimson Hunter - [160]
 
Total: 1743

Logic and tactics behind this list are fairly simple.

Maugan Ra and Farseer are at the head of Alaitoc Battalion mainly because they are the only efficient non-Saim-Hann characters in my collection at the moment (I also have Illic Nightspear, and he's fun and an awesome model, but, to be honest, doesn't feel strong enough to justify the points investment).
The stars of this list and its main heavy-hitters are the trio of Crimson Hunters which, due to their capability to fire while keeping away from the enemy, synergise wonderfully with the Alaitoc attribute. Their main duty is anti-tank, but they also work pretty well as character assasins as well as general harassers of the enemy. They are supported by Dark Reapers and Maugan Ra, which can threaten most targets and are particularly good at eshuring that no pesky stuff like Venomthropes gets in the way of CH's fire. Meanwhile Shining Spears, buffed by Protect and Fortune, charge up the field and just try to make as much mess as possible before dying. All the rest is for general support, board control and dealing with infantry.

The list is good for friendly games, but feels like there's still a lot of room for improvement. First and foremost, 1750 pts format feels a bit constraining to attempt to make both allied detachments from two different craftworlds look complete and meaningful, if you know what I mean. Two HQ sections are somewhat unwieldy, which results in some inter-craftworld issues, - e.g. I'd much prefer to use "Seer Council" stratagem to raise the chances of "Protect" going off, but it only works if a Farseer and a Warlock are from the same Craftworld. The list also lacks any kind of CP refund.

Secondly, some units in the list are not particularly points-efficient. In particular, scatter-bikes, as much as I love them, do just about acceptable job of killing infantry but don't shine at it. Same with Maugan Ra - he's a good character and puts out some decent firepower, but... when you consider that he costs as much as a full-sized combat unit, you realise that you probably still can get much more out of those points.

So... When I think of improving this list, I see two main directions where it can be taken. Both involve dropping the scatter-bikes along with the Outrider detachment and switching to mono-Alaitoc, but differ in the replacements.

The first alternative list is kind of "Dark Reaper-centric":

Quote
Battalion Detachment (Alaitoc)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
HQ 1: Farseer (Witchblade) - [110]
HQ 2: Warlock (Witchblade) - [55]
 
Troops 1: 5 Dire Avengers (Exarch, Dual avenger shuricat) - [64]
Troops 2: 5 Dire Avengers - [60]
Troops 3: 5 Rangers - [60]
 
Fast Attack 1: 5 Shining Spears (Exarch, Star lance) - [157]
 
Transports 1: Wave Serpent (Spirit stone, Shuriken cannon (upg.), Twin shuriken cannon) - [144]
 
Spearhead Detachment (Alaitoc)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
HQ 1: Maugan Ra - [140]

Heavy Support 1: 3 Dark Reapers (Exarch, Tempest launcher) - [107]
Heavy Support 2: 3 Dark Reapers (Exarch, Tempest launcher) - [107]
Heavy Support 3: 3 Dark Reapers (Exarch, Tempest launcher) - [107]
 
Transports 1: Wave Serpent (Spirit stone, Shuriken cannon (upg.), Twin shuriken cannon) - [144]
 
Air Wing (Alaitoc)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Flyers 1: Crimson Hunter Exarch (2 x Bright lance) - [175]
Flyers 2: Crimson Hunter - [160]
Flyers 3: Crimson Hunter - [160]
 
Total: 1750

Here 9 scatter bikes and 1 Shining Spear are replaced with 4 extra Reapers and a second Wave Serpent. Spearhead in this list looks very fluffy - Reaper Cult of sorts. The list doesn't gain any additional anti-personnel firepower (3x3 scatter lasers are replaced by 3 shuricannons on a Serpent and 2 additional Tempest launchers, which I'd say is an equivalent change), but I'd say it does gain a lot of additional durability and flexibility. It still has no CP refund, but Maugan Ra, even though he fits the theme very neatly here, can be easily replaced by a cheaper Autarch. One additional advantage of this list is that I'll need to paint just 5 additional models for it (a "custom craftworld" Warlock and 4 additional Reapers, 2 regular ones and 2 Exarchs).

The second alternative list is more "Guardian-centric":

Quote
Battalion (Alaitoc)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
HQ 1: Farseer (Witchblade) - [110]
HQ 2: Warlock (Witchblade) - [55]
HQ 3: Warlock (Witchblade) - [55]
 
Troops 1: 5 Dire Avengers (Exarch, Dual avenger shuricat) - [64]
Troops 2: 5 Dire Avengers - [60]
Troops 3: 5 Rangers - [60]
Troops 4: 20 Guardian Defenders (Platform, Shuriken cannon) - [175]
 
Fast Attack 1: 6 Shining Spears (Exarch, Star lance) - [188]
 
Heavy Support 1: 3 Dark Reapers (Exarch, Tempest launcher) - [107]
Heavy Support 2: 3 Dark Reapers (Exarch, Tempest launcher) - [107]
 
Transports 1: Wave Serpent (Spirit stone, Shuriken cannon (upg.), Twin shuriken cannon) - [144]
Transports 2: Wave Serpent (Spirit stone, Shuriken cannon (upg.), Twin shuriken cannon) - [144]
 
Air Wing (Alaitoc)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Flyers 1: Crimson Hunter - [160]
Flyers 2: Crimson Hunter - [160]
Flyers 3: Crimson Hunter - [160]
 
Total: 1749

Here we replace lord Ra with the second Warlock and, instead of extra Reapers, add a 20-strong blob of Guardians. This looks cool, at least on paper - however, I'm not 100% sure how useful are the Guardians now considering that they can't deep-strike from the Webway on turn 1. Hence I'm including the second Warlock to cast Quickening, to ensure that Guardians will get to some target on turn 1. However, there's that sceptical thought that immediately comes to mind: if, in order to make maximum use out of a 175 pts Guardian blob, I need to invest additional 55 pts into a Warlock with Quickening (which I wouldn't have done otherwise), then the Guardians in that blob end up being not much more points-efficient than Dire Avengers... In other words, it means that the combined point cost of Guardians plus Warlock almost buys 20 DAs! An even more interesting (if a bit crazy) thought would be to invest the same points into ~17 (!!!) Swooping Hawks.

So, which of the two modified lists you like more and why? Or perhaps you'd rather take things in entirely different direction? Any and all constructive feedback would be greatly appreciated!

 

« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 06:41:06 PM by SeekingOne »
I fight against Chaos and for Order, because it means fighting for Life against Death. There is no other battle truly worth fighting.

"If it's not for a tournament then play whatever it is that you like. Without the pressure of having to utterly destroy your opponent it opens up alot more opportunity to have fun." - Lazarus

Offline Partninja

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Re: 1750 all comers list - feedback wanted
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2018, 08:55:11 PM »
Given your painted model limitation I think your first list is the most well rounded. I'm not sure I would take that many Crimson Hunters in favor of taking more bodies. Do you plan to see that many heavier vehicles? You have a lot of mid-strength fire power for lighter armor.

Offline SeekingOne

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Re: 1750 all comers list - feedback wanted
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2018, 04:01:14 AM »
Hi Partninja, thanks for replying!
Given your painted model limitation I think your first list is the most well rounded.
You're probably right. However, the event I want a 1750 list for still some 5 weeks away - so I think I can paint up at least a couple new units in that time. I just need to decide what those units should be, which is one of the purposes of this thread :)

Quote
I'm not sure I would take that many Crimson Hunters in favor of taking more bodies. Do you plan to see that many heavier vehicles? You have a lot of mid-strength fire power for lighter armor.
Well, in fact my local meta does seem to lean towards fielding more heavy stuff rather than hordes. A few typical examples would be IG with 4-6 Leman Russes backed up by 3 Hellhounds, or Tyranids with Tyrannofex, 2 Exocrenes and like 3x5 Hive Guard, or Death Guard with 3 Plagueburst crawlers, 4 Bloat-drones and a squadron of 3 Blight-haulers.

However, I'm not totally opposed to the idea of taking 2 CHs instead of 3, or perhaps replacing 3 CHs with 2 Hemlocks. What would you suggest spending the freed-up points on?
I fight against Chaos and for Order, because it means fighting for Life against Death. There is no other battle truly worth fighting.

"If it's not for a tournament then play whatever it is that you like. Without the pressure of having to utterly destroy your opponent it opens up alot more opportunity to have fun." - Lazarus

Offline Partninja

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Re: 1750 all comers list - feedback wanted
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2018, 09:12:11 PM »
I would stick with two CH (and maybe upgrade one to the Exarch) and drop the third for points.

I would then swap Maugan for a cheaper HQ. Perhaps an Autarch Windrider or even one on foot with a reaper launcher (with the sniper warlord trait). Maybe even put the Farseer on a jetbike too if the points work out.

Use these points for a 20-man Guardian blob and combine your Avenger squad into one.

Given the amount of tougher "big" models you're likely to see I could go either way with the number for CH. I've not had much luck with the Hemlock. I'm bad at rolling D3's. For similar or less points I feel there are more effective units I could take (even ones less popular, like a 10-man Warp Spider unit).

This is the toughest part about making making lists under 2k. Adjustments either way tip the over balance of your list drastically. I feel like you don't have enough bodies to have any real staying power but you will be pretty hard to hit. You have decent fire power, but even minor casualties will greatly reduce your damage output.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 09:14:16 PM by Partninja »

 


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