flood

News:

Login  |  Register

Author Topic: Iím new and I want to create a Eldar army.  (Read 1596 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Grizzlykin

  • Aspect Warrior
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 806
  • Country: fr
  • Run little eldar, run! ... And KILL THEM ALL !
  • Armies: Eldars
Re: Iím new and I want to create a Eldar army.
« Reply #20 on: June 7, 2018, 11:36:48 AM »
If I may just suggest one thing, do concider doing a presentation thread you two new guy's :D help us integrate you in ^^

OK onto the topic again Endez, I highly advise you test painting one of your guy. It's part of the hobby so I suggest you give it a shot and try it out.



List wise. I'm gonna branch away from Cavalier advice as I'm thinking lower size army compare to him here and fitting in the budget you gave us.

Concidering what's in the box. My recommendation for an extra buy would be shining spears or an extra team of jetbikes.
I assume with such a choice, you are aiming for roughly 500pts. Which is a good place to start. Therefore concidering the pricing of the unit in that box. We are looking at an around 400points (with upgrade and system) that makes for a point gap of roughly a 100 points.

If you do decide to go for this box it's main features is mobility. You don't want to be losing that when adding a new unit for now, so everything on foot is out of the question.
If you do want an army that can do shoot stuff and cc stuff, Shining spears are a good option. From really close they can do shooting, and then charge. There weapon is efficient against meaty hard to kill target but don't particularly have a lot of firepower. So you might struggle against horde like army but the rest of your army could kinda deal with that. One of the down fall of such a unit aswell is the low model count. So it's very much an elite style of unit. Lucky for you these are among the most resilient unit in the eldar codex. But in the long run, if you like the performance of the shining spear I highly suggest you get a few more of them to make the unit a bit more durable.


The other option would be more bikes (and maybe a skyrunner warlock). This would force you to forgo fighting phase which as a strategie makes perfect sens but yeah that's just how you want it. You do forgo unit variety aswell if you choose this option.
But from a pure result point of view, I do believe shining spears works best in a minimum of 5 man units as you want enough bodies to get the time to get a cross the board without getting killed. Which could be a good enough reason to go for bike.


From my point of view these are probably you best option for your budget.

Up to you to decide what's next.
You can even go a totally different route being taking swooping hawks or spyder maybe :D. Find your groove, find your footing find your best solution is all I can suggest :D Buy what you want and like is still my best advice.
The Grizzly's Arvandor Craftworld!

Quote from: Cavalier
ALL HAIL THE TORNADO! The legend is REBORN.

Quote from: Alienscar
The forum member so nice that even when he is MIA he still gets two votes for being the nicest member

Offline EndEz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Country: gb
  • Newbie at the game, also Eldar ftw.
  • Armies: Eldar for now.
Re: I’m new and I want to create a Eldar army.
« Reply #21 on: June 8, 2018, 06:49:44 AM »
I'm not sure why this topic was locked, as nobody on the Staff locked it, so I'm unlocking it.  Carry on everyone.

Thank you! I wasn’t sure why it was blocked, unless it was a missclick from me. If it was, I apologize.

Hey End I've actually played a combination of Wraithguard and Jetbikes many times throughout the edition and did not find it to be over powered at all. Wraithguard are an expensive unit, that has to get very close to do damage so there is a high amount of risk involved as your opponent will get ample opportunity to try and disable their Wave Serpent as they move in for the attack. That being said they have fantastic offense and have very good defense for heavy infantry but have a number of drawbacks that balance them out.

To start with I'd get a trio of 3 units of 3 man Jetbikes with Scatter Lasers. 2x units of Wraithguard (one with Cannons, One D-Scythes) and put them both in Wave Serpents. I'd get a Farseer and Spirit Seer as the core of your army. That gives you a good combo of tough armored vehicles, excellent close range firepower, mobile long range fire power and very healthy psychic support.

I'd then work on getting some troops to get you up to battalion strength so you can have a lot of Command Points and then take a look at the Eldar flyers both of which are excellent.
So would you say it was a high risk, high reward thing with Dread’s suggestion, (5 wraith guard in a wave serpent). I may try your suggestion though.

If I may just suggest one thing, do consider doing a presentation thread you two new guy's :D help us integrate you in ^^

OK onto the topic again Endez, I highly advise you test painting one of your guy. It's part of the hobby so I suggest you give it a shot and try it out.

List wise. I'm gonna branch away from Cavalier advice as I'm thinking lower size army compare to him here and fitting in the budget you gave us.

Concidering what's in the box. My recommendation for an extra buy would be shining spears or an extra team of jetbikes.
I assume with such a choice, you are aiming for roughly 500pts. Which is a good place to start. Therefore concidering the pricing of the unit in that box. We are looking at an around 400points (with upgrade and system) that makes for a point gap of roughly a 100 points.

If you do decide to go for this box it's main features is mobility. You don't want to be losing that when adding a new unit for now, so everything on foot is out of the question.
If you do want an army that can do shoot stuff and cc stuff, Shining spears are a good option. From really close they can do shooting, and then charge. There weapon is efficient against meaty hard to kill target but don't particularly have a lot of firepower. So you might struggle against horde like army but the rest of your army could kinda deal with that. One of the down fall of such a unit aswell is the low model count. So it's very much an elite style of unit. Lucky for you these are among the most resilient unit in the eldar codex. But in the long run, if you like the performance of the shining spear I highly suggest you get a few more of them to make the unit a bit more durable.
The other option would be more bikes (and maybe a skyrunner warlock). This would force you to forgo fighting phase which as a strategie makes perfect sens but yeah that's just how you want it. You do forgo unit variety aswell if you choose this option.
But from a pure result point of view, I do believe shining spears works best in a minimum of 5 man units as you want enough bodies to get the time to get a cross the board without getting killed. Which could be a good enough reason to go for bike.
From my point of view these are probably you best option for your budget.
Up to you to decide what's next.
You can even go a totally different route being taking swooping hawks or spyder maybe :D. Find your groove, find your footing find your best solution is all I can suggest :D Buy what you want and like is still my best advice.

I usually like mobility when I play any type of game (which in the game Warframe, is why I chose Volt, if anyone plays Warframe, they know that a Volt can be extremely fast, like stupidly fast.) I’m probably going to go with this, since it’s the best budget wise and fits with my sort of play style in games.. I will go with the Shining Spears since I would have enough Jetbikes. That seems to be close to what I was hoping to get anyways.

I will try to make a presentation thread, even though RT isn’t exactly new to WH40K, unless you call about 5 years of playing it new. Will do though, but it will take a while.

Side note: My friends that are playing it use Tau, Harlequins and Orks. RT plays as Scion IIRC.
« Last Edit: June 8, 2018, 07:02:32 AM by EndEz »

Offline Grizzlykin

  • Aspect Warrior
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 806
  • Country: fr
  • Run little eldar, run! ... And KILL THEM ALL !
  • Armies: Eldars
Re: Iím new and I want to create a Eldar army.
« Reply #22 on: June 8, 2018, 02:27:29 PM »
Side note: My friends that are playing it use Tau, Harlequins and Orks. RT plays as Scion IIRC.

Yeah well against the tau guy, you are probably going to have a hard time with the shining spear but against all the other army, you should be able to pull it off ^^ If I may suggest, soften the target of your charge as much as possible before actually charging ><

The question about the presentation isn't about how long you've been playing but just about saying how you appeared in the hobby, where are you from these kind of simple things, and it is in no way madatory :)

Well in the end Endez, oh that sound weird to say, welcome again to the hobby and welcome to the forum :D hope you will be liking your stay and stay for as long as possible. Eldar are fun, embrace the eldar and go for war.


Just as a suggestion for how to devellop your army after that, I would recommand, double down on eache unit you have now. 2farseer, pretty safe hq choice jetbikes, you can't really go wrong with jetbikes, shining spears, as I said, it's better to have 6 guy's in a unit. 2 fire prism triple the efficienty of having only one, because of the stratagem linked fire, making it a really really really scary tank. and then had some troops to go for a battallion, one unit of ranger two unit of 5 DA and a wave serpent can be a intresting base (you can put more DA and serpent instead of the ranger if you want).  But anyway play the game and find the flavor of eldar you like and want, and be prepared, once you fall in this pit. The only possible outcome is : SPENDING MORE MONEY TO GET MORE MINIS!
The Grizzly's Arvandor Craftworld!

Quote from: Cavalier
ALL HAIL THE TORNADO! The legend is REBORN.

Quote from: Alienscar
The forum member so nice that even when he is MIA he still gets two votes for being the nicest member

Offline EndEz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Country: gb
  • Newbie at the game, also Eldar ftw.
  • Armies: Eldar for now.
Re: I’m new and I want to create a Eldar army.
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2018, 02:05:38 PM »
The question about the presentation isn't about how long you've been playing but just about saying how you appeared in the hobby, where are you from these kind of simple things, and it is in no way mandatory :)

Oh well. Here it is anyways, on it's own post.

So, I heard about Warhammer 40K a long time ago, from RT, and the people that are playing as Tau and Orks, (I'll call them by their army.) I'm friends with them all, but I really wanted to play it, because it really interested me a lot, even if the only thing I could barely recognize were the Space Marines (reminds me of Terran marines from StarCraft and the Power Armour from Fallout. even though I don't play StarCraft.)

However there were some problems.The problems were that I found it way too complicating, and I could not understand what the hell was happening in matches. So in one lesson where I sat next to RT, I told him that I wanted to play Warhammer 40K. He then did this little quiz, where he basically said :"Speed or Strength?" and then "Quality or Quantity?". I said speed, and quality, and he told me the army which fitted that playstyle: Craftworlds. I told him that I didn't understand how to play it though, so the next day, he let me borrow his Rulebook.

        I spent most of the night reading that, and that was some good lore, or fluff, whatever you want to call it :) I surprisingly understand a lot of what happens from reading it, after getting to 230 pages, I gave it back to him and tried to get the Craftworld's codex. I got it a few weeks after, and then we talked about how I could go round to his house to play it, but since it is Ramadan, I couldn't. I then just started getting ready to face him, and Tau and Orks, army but I didn't know what I should make as my army. I then found this site, and posted the topic we're on now. After getting advice on which army I should get from this topic and my friends, I now have some idea of the army I will try to get, even if it's very early in making.

     Ramadan ends this Friday and I can go to his on Saturday, if everything goes to plan. It will be my first time playing and I hope I win.

There. Hopefully that's enough of an "presentation". Seems a bit little though, but IDK.

EndEz

Offline SeekingOne

  • Exarch
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1476
  • Country: ru
  • May Hoeth guide our ways...
  • Armies: Eldar (Saim-Hann), Space Wolves
Re: Iím new and I want to create a Eldar army.
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2018, 05:40:23 AM »
Hi EndEz!

I have a word of warning for you: if you really want to win as many games as possible, you should keep in mind that Saim-Hann in terms of rules is the least competitive Craftworld of all 5. If you want to play Saim-Hann competitively you pretty much have to mass Shining Spears (and by massing I mean something at least about 3 units of 6 or 2 units of 9). The CWE codex supports other strong builds and technically you can use any of those builds with Saim-Hann craftworld - it's just that the Saim-Hann rules won't be helping you much.

Anyway, when building an army, ideally you need to make sure that you have at least the following three bases covered:

1) Anti-tank: a good army should be able to destroy heavy multi-wound targets like vehicles or monsters. I'd say your anti-tank is ok if your army can reliably destroy at least one heavy tank/monster per shooting phase.
2) Anti-infantry: a good army should also be able to efficiently grind through dozens of cheap 1-wound infantry models. I'd say your anti-infantry is ok if your army can reliably kill at least about 20 to 30 light infantry models per shooting phase.
3) Command points: a good army should start with a healthy amount of Command points, because you need them to use Stratagems and Stratagems can make a world of difference in many tight situations. I'd say you need at least 8 CP in games up to 1750 points and at least 9-10 CP above that.

Now, with that in mind, here's a rough evaluation of units in the codex in terms of their practical efficiency.

1. Flexible/Multi-purpose/Support units

Good/Excellent:
Farseers, Spiritseers, Warlocks, Shining Spears, Dark Reapers (exarch should have a Tempest Launcher), Wave Serpents, Hemlock Wraithfighters

Average (which means not too powerful but still playable):
Autarchs, Wraithguard with D-scythes, maybe Wraithblades, Fire Prisms (only if you take at least TWO of them to use the "Linked Fire" stratagem, preferably three), Wraithlords (only if taken as Iyanden!).

2. Specialized anti-infantry units

Good/Excellent:
Defender Guardians, Swooping Hawks

Average:
Dire Avengers, Windriders with scatter lasers (only if taken as Saim-Hann!)

3. Specialized anti-tank units

Good/Excellent:
Crimson Hunters

Average:
Fire Dragons

Please note that I didn't evaluate any named characters - some of them aren't bad, but using them is really a matter of personal taste.
Apart from that, basically, any units not listed above are either mediocre or bad - which means that you'll basically weaken your army by taking them.

Also please note that units listed in the first section ("1. Flexible/Multi-purpose/Support units") are there because they can do reasonably well in both anti-infantry and anti-tank areas, while characters listed there are good at assisting the rest of the army in dealing with all kinds of targets.

Hope this helps, good luck with your first battles :)

P.S.
If you don't mind me asking, does Ramadan prohibit from visiting other people's homes, or from playing games...?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 05:43:30 AM by SeekingOne »
I fight against Chaos and for Order, because it means fighting for Life against Death. There is no other battle truly worth fighting.

"If it's not for a tournament then play whatever it is that you like. Without the pressure of having to utterly destroy your opponent it opens up alot more opportunity to have fun." - Lazarus

Offline EndEz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Country: gb
  • Newbie at the game, also Eldar ftw.
  • Armies: Eldar for now.
Re: Iím new and I want to create a Eldar army.
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2018, 08:01:17 AM »
Hi EndEz!

I have a word of warning for you: if you really want to win as many games as possible, you should keep in mind that Saim-Hann in terms of rules is the least competitive Craftworld of all 5. If you want to play Saim-Hann competitively you pretty much have to mass Shining Spears (and by massing I mean something at least about 3 units of 6 or 2 units of 9). The CWE codex supports other strong builds and technically you can use any of those builds with Saim-Hann craftworld - it's just that the Saim-Hann rules won't be helping you much.

I chose Saim-Hann mainly because of the Jetbikes, but I could change it. What would be the most competitive then?

Anyway, when building an army, ideally you need to make sure that you have at least the following three bases covered:

1) Anti-tank: a good army should be able to destroy heavy multi-wound targets like vehicles or monsters. I'd say your anti-tank is ok if your army can reliably destroy at least one heavy tank/monster per shooting phase.
2) Anti-infantry: a good army should also be able to efficiently grind through dozens of cheap 1-wound infantry models. I'd say your anti-infantry is ok if your army can reliably kill at least about 20 to 30 light infantry models per shooting phase.
3) Command points: a good army should start with a healthy amount of Command points, because you need them to use Stratagems and Stratagems can make a world of difference in many tight situations. I'd say you need at least 8 CP in games up to 1750 points and at least 9-10 CP above that.


RT already helped me build an army actually, and itís:
Units
Dire Avengers x2
Windriders
Farseer Skyrunner
Wave Serpent

Models Per Unit
5
3
1
1

Loadout
Power glaive and shimmer shield, Shurikin catupalt x4
Shurikin cannon x3
Twin Shuriken Cannon and witchblade
2 Bright Lances, 1 Shurikan Cannon

(How do you make a table in this btw? Iíve been trying for almost 20 minutes, and now Iím stuck with this.)

The grand total is about 420 points IIRC. You can tell me whatís wrong with it, whatís good etc.
For now though, the anti-tank is the WS and the Windriders. The Windriders will try to attack from all sides and the WS will   attack and take as much damage as possible.

The anti-infantry will be the Farseer Skyrunner (using Horrify and Restrain to stop the infantry moving as much and to make them all flee) and the DA to shoot them down. The Farseer, and the WS will be more of a support though since I may have a match where Iím not facing a tank of some sort.

Now, with that in mind, here's a rough evaluation of units in the codex in terms of their practical efficiency.

1. Flexible/Multi-purpose/Support units

Good/Excellent:
Farseers, Spiritseers, Warlocks, Shining Spears, Dark Reapers (exarch should have a Tempest Launcher), Wave Serpents, Hemlock Wraithfighters

Average (which means not too powerful but still playable):
Autarchs, Wraithguard with D-scythes, maybe Wraithblades, Fire Prisms (only if you take at least TWO of them to use the "Linked Fire" stratagem, preferably three), Wraithlords (only if taken as Iyanden!).

2. Specialized anti-infantry units

Good/Excellent:
Defender Guardians, Swooping Hawks

Average:
Dire Avengers, Windriders with scatter lasers (only if taken as Saim-Hann!)

3. Specialized anti-tank units

Good/Excellent:
Crimson Hunters

Average:
Fire Dragons


Thanks for this! This really helps.

Please note that I didn't evaluate any named characters - some of them aren't bad, but using them is really a matter of personal taste.
Apart from that, basically, any units not listed above are either mediocre or bad - which means that you'll basically weaken your army by taking them.

Also please note that units listed in the first section ("1. Flexible/Multi-purpose/Support units") are there because they can do reasonably well in both anti-infantry and anti-tank areas, while characters listed there are good at assisting the rest of the army in dealing with all kinds of targets.

Hope this helps, good luck with your first battles :)

Most of, if not all, of my units fit in those two, so thatís good.

P.S.
If you don't mind me asking, does Ramadan prohibit from visiting other people's homes, or from playing games...?

It doesnít prohibit me from either, itís just to walk to his, it takes about 30 minutes, and since we rarely get a lot of sleep in the night (thereís a prayer which lasts from 11pm to about 1, and thereís also waking up in the middle of the night to eat), I am most tired and it would be almost impossible to get to his, and my parents are usually busy reading the Qurían or sleeping so I donít want to make them drive me to his since I donít want to disturb them, if you get what I mean.

Offline SeekingOne

  • Exarch
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1476
  • Country: ru
  • May Hoeth guide our ways...
  • Armies: Eldar (Saim-Hann), Space Wolves
Re: Iím new and I want to create a Eldar army.
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2018, 10:19:54 AM »
I chose Saim-Hann mainly because of the Jetbikes, but I could change it. What would be the most competitive then?

Well, first of all, it depends on the final size of an army you're aiming at. Most people play between 1750 and 2000 points - at that points limit you can easily organise your army into two or three separate detachments, and each detachment can have its own Craftworld rules if you wish.

In general, the most powerful Craftworld attribute is that of Alaitoc. It will impose penalty of -1 to hit on any fire that your opponent directs at any of your units from more than 12" away. This is particularly beneficial for an army that relies on firepower and prefers to stay away from the enemy. On an army-wide scale it's very powerful.

The second-best attribute is that of Ulthwe - it will give all your units additional chance to ignore any wounds on 6+, which also makes the army noticeably more durable. You also save points by not having to equip Serpents with spirit stones. It also enables you field Eldrad Ulthran, who is an absolutely awesome psyker compared to a normal farseer.

The third I think would be Iyanden - but it really comes into its own only if you're planning to use multiple shooty vehicles and/or Wraithlords.

Then there's Biel-Tan - it gives a nice bonus to all shuriken weaponry and is useful provided you're fielding lots and lots of units with shuriken - but not so much if you aren't.

And finally there's Saim-Hann, which effectively gives some good bonuses to just two units in the whole codex: Shining Spears and Windriders with scatter lasers.

Effectively, the Alaitoc and Ulthwe bonuses are both strong and affect the whole or almost the whole army, while the other three are limited and/or situational.


Quote
The grand total is about 420 points IIRC. You can tell me whatís wrong with it, whatís good etc.
I wouldn't bother with powerglaive&shimmershield combo on Avengers as it hardly makes much difference. In order for the 5+ Invulnerable save to come into play they have to be hit with a weapon with AP -2 or better. Trick is, such weapons are usually expensive heavy weapons which your opponent is not likely to waste on your Avengers, so they most likely will be shot at with weapons either with no AP or with AP -1, against which they still roll 5+ armour. Avenger Exarch is more useful with dual shuriken catapults.

Quote
For now though, the anti-tank is the WS and the Windriders. The Windriders will try to attack from all sides and the WS will   attack and take as much damage as possible.
It's a very weak anti-tank, but I guess it will have to do. Make sure you give your Farseer the "Doom" power and cast it onto a vehicle you want to destroy.

Quote
The anti-infantry will be the Farseer Skyrunner (using Horrify and Restrain to stop the infantry moving as much and to make them all flee) and the DA to shoot them down.


Note that Farseer can't use Horrify or Restrain because those are Warlock powers. On a single Farseer you take Doom and then either Guide or Executioner.



Quote
It doesnít prohibit me from either, itís just to walk to his, it takes about 30 minutes, and since we rarely get a lot of sleep in the night (thereís a prayer which lasts from 11pm to about 1, and thereís also waking up in the middle of the night to eat), I am most tired and it would be almost impossible to get to his, and my parents are usually busy reading the Qurían or sleeping so I donít want to make them drive me to his since I donít want to disturb them, if you get what I mean.
I totally get what you mean, thanks!
I fight against Chaos and for Order, because it means fighting for Life against Death. There is no other battle truly worth fighting.

"If it's not for a tournament then play whatever it is that you like. Without the pressure of having to utterly destroy your opponent it opens up alot more opportunity to have fun." - Lazarus

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1472
Re: Iím new and I want to create a Eldar army.
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2018, 05:19:47 PM »
Hey EndEz,
 To add on to the excellent advice you've been given...

At that small of a game, your anti tank is not terrible. It is a tad lacking, and if your opponent brings multiple vehicles you may have some trouble, but it will do. I'd suggest taking Crystal Targeting Matrix and maybe spirit stones (more on that in a moment).

As far as Powers for your farseer, you are limited to the Runes of Fate powers. Warlocks and Spiritseers can take the Runes of Battle ones. I would always take doom. It's hands down our best power (and doom + Jinx is scary). For the 2nd power I would either do Guide to make sure those Bright Lances connect, or Executioner to really mow through ground units.

Now, onto craftworlds. While it is true that Saim-Hann fluff wise is the Jet-bike intensive army, that does not mean you must play that way too. Nothing stops you from running bikes in any other list. Indeed, the battle focus ability of shruiken cannons on bikes is very nice.

At this level, I personally prefer Ulthwe, simply for the 16% increase in resilience. Your list is very fast, and unless you are playing vs another fast army (Any Eldar, or to a lesser extent bugs), then you should be able to control the battlefield. Altioc is very, very powerful in this, but not as forgiving as if you opponent gets to close, you lose your advantage. As such, at smaller games and especially when just learning the army, I would advocate Ulthwe (and it gives you the spirit stones upgrade on your WS for 'free').

Finally, as SeekingOne said, the sword and shield on the Avengers is very meh. I personally like having the dual gun set up, as it effectively adds another set of shots to your squad.

Hope that all helps a bit
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline Partninja

  • Warlock
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2640
Re: Iím new and I want to create a Eldar army.
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2018, 05:42:57 PM »
Someone in my LGS likes to run four 10-man squads of shimmer sheild Avengers in an Ulthwe detachment. They're deceptively durable. Alaitoc works too.

Offline EndEz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Country: gb
  • Newbie at the game, also Eldar ftw.
  • Armies: Eldar for now.
Re: Iím new and I want to create a Eldar army.
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2018, 03:51:39 PM »
So... I played my first two games.

I ran with the army I said, except I added a Warlock Skyrunner(WS) to it, since faitherun and SeekingOne said that they could use Runes of Battle powers, and Farseer Skyrunners(FS) couldn't.

I forgot to tell my friends about the craftworld attributes, so I left that. (P.S. I did choose Saim-Hann because lore/fluff wise they are the Jet-bike intensive army, but I am going to be using Altioc for ingame.)

I faced the Orks, and luckily, they were all mostly infantry and my anti-infantry was suprisingly good. I usually just used Horrify and Smite, and my Dire Avengers and Wave Serpent were really effective, killing more than a quarter by the second turn. Horrify made most of what was left flee and I smite'd some of them. They had a DeffDread but he could never actually hit a 5+ (I think that's what he had to roll), and a Big Mek in Mega Armour, but against 10 Dire Avengers, a Wave Serpent, and a Farseer Skyrunner and a Warlock Skyrunner, he died almost instantly. The DeffDread died after.

Then I faced RT, who was using Scion. We were using Tactical Objectives (which I really liked playing with; gives me a sense of pride and accomplishment "urgency" I guess. Can't really word it.)
      He was running a mixture of infantry and tanks, and now after facing him, I see what everyone was saying with my anti-tank being bad. The Farseer Skyrunner died quickly, and the Warlock Skyrunner went with the Dire Avengers and Jetbikes. I contested for Point 4 and captured Point 2. He moved some sort of infantry, which I can't remember the name of, close to Point 4, and I did my Blood and Guts, and Hold Point 4 in 2 turns. 1 Unit of Dire Avengers stayed close to Point 6, which was in the middle, and on the high ground too, and another stayed above Point 4.
      He had a tank of somesort near a point which was close to his deployment zone, so I moved my Wave Serpent close and my Dire Avengers that were at Point 6 to them and started to shoot at them. However, since my Dire Avengers weren't at Point 4, and only my Warlock Skyrunner and Jetbikes were at Point 4, I lost that point. However, I did get Point 2. I had to leave then, but due to doing my Tactical Objectives, and getting more points , (not the ones you capture, the ones you get from the Tactical Objectives), I won.

I will definitely need to get some anti-tank though. My friend who was playing as Orks is planning to get a Battlewagon or a Morkanaut, so I'm thinking of getting a Fire Prism. The limit of my army has been increased to be about 750, IIRC.

Thanks for all the tips btw, wouldn't have won the matches without them!

Offline Dread

  • Warlock
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1665
  • Country: us
  • I dunno!!!
  • Armies: Eldar, DE, Harlis, GK, Necrons, IK, DGuard
Re: Iím new and I want to create a Eldar army.
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2018, 01:11:44 AM »
To me, the fire prism is a great choice. I love mine. It has great long range choices in shooting. CTM, SS are a must and worth the points. I also always upgrade to a shur.cannon. Running 2 of them and a crimson hunter for anti-tank is a great combo.

I have a tournament coming next weekend. I'll post my list for you when I get my tweaks done on it. It is a 2000 pt list.
"Burning thru the universe in search of peace only brings more war. Peace is an illusion, war is reality, that is the way of things"

                            Farseer Gol'Istria of    the Morea Nebula craftword

01000101 01101100 01100100 01100001 01110010 00100000 01010010 01110101 01101100 01100101 00100001

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1472
Re: Iím new and I want to create a Eldar army.
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2018, 08:07:15 AM »
Gratz on the win and what sounded like some fun games!

Fire Prism's are good - I love them. However, I feel like they almost have to be run in units of 2 if not 3!

Eldar have some pretty good anti-armor options.

In keeping with you jet-bike feel, may I suggest an Autuarch on a bike? Fusion gun, Lance, banshee mask.... that guy is absolutely hated by my opponents. While he won't always nuke a tank a turn, he can do some serious damage and be a huge annoyance to boot.

Other good options are Crimson Hunters, and, to a lesser extent, shinning spears vs light vehicles. There are quite a number of options really, but i'd suggest you stay away from Vipers - not that they are bad per-se, just over costed for what they do.

So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline EndEz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Country: gb
  • Newbie at the game, also Eldar ftw.
  • Armies: Eldar for now.
Re: I’m new and I want to create a Eldar army.
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2018, 05:01:19 AM »
To me, the fire prism is a great choice. I love mine. It has great long range choices in shooting. CTM, SS are a must and worth the points. I also always upgrade to a shur.cannon. Running 2 of them and a crimson hunter for anti-tank is a great combo.

I have a tournament coming next weekend. I'll post my list for you when I get my tweaks done on it. It is a 2000 pt list.

I’m going to be playing up to 1000 points IIRC. But I would like to see your list nonetheless. What is a CTM and SS? I’m guessing it’s a crystal targeting matrix and a spirit stone but IDK.

Gratz on the win and what sounded like some fun games!

Fire Prism's are good - I love them. However, I feel like they almost have to be run in units of 2 if not 3!

Eldar have some pretty good anti-armor options.

In keeping with you jet-bike feel, may I suggest an Autuarch on a bike? Fusion gun, Lance, banshee mask.... that guy is absolutely hated by my opponents. While he won't always nuke a tank a turn, he can do some serious damage and be a huge annoyance to boot.

Other good options are Crimson Hunters, and, to a lesser extent, shinning spears vs light vehicles. There are quite a number of options really, but i'd suggest you stay away from Vipers - not that they are bad per-se, just over costed for what they do.

I’m thinking of dropping the jet-bikes because they’ve been somewhat useless, and Dire Avengers have so far, been somewhat better than them, and I didn’t really have to use them. I will probably keep the Skyrunners, as they are fast and strong, with their powers so I may add some more. But I will check the Autuarch and I will try to get 2 Fire-Prisms.

Offline Irisado

  • A Light in The Grim-Darkness ~ Guns Don't Kill People, Copyright Stats Do | Farseer | Reporting Live! from the Crime Scene | I killed Dayan and all I got was this stupid rock...
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10977
  • Country: gb
  • SoŮando debajo del arco iris
  • Armies: Globals do not play 40K
Re: Iím new and I want to create a Eldar army.
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2018, 11:45:54 AM »
What is a CTM and SS? Iím guessing itís a crystal targeting matrix and a spirit stone but IDK.

You are correct.  These are regularly used abbreviations for these two pieces of wargear, although it's perfectly acceptable to write them out in full as well :).
You haunt my in-box like an ex-girl friend could only dream of.

The Forum Rules - Please Read and Remember Them.

SoŮando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline magenb

  • Aspect Warrior
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1407
  • Country: au
  • I *LOVE* 40k Online!
Re: Iím new and I want to create a Eldar army.
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2018, 05:28:22 PM »

Iím thinking of dropping the jet-bikes because theyíve been somewhat useless, and Dire Avengers have so far, been somewhat better than them, and I didnít really have to use them. I will probably keep the Skyrunners, as they are fast and strong, with their powers so I may add some more. But I will check the Autuarch and I will try to get 2 Fire-Prisms.

Base Jet-bikes are an anti-infantry unit, use them from the webway to get a big hit in on turn2 then if need be finish of the squad they were fight with long ranged fire support, just becareful where you bring them in, as they can get shot up rather easily. Given your current list, use your Dire Avengers and these to focus fire on a unit :)

It you are running Shuriken Cannons, then keep them at max range and in cover. Sadily S6 isn't very good as anti-tank any more, they are good again mid Toughness creatures and T4 infantry.

Dire Avengers are a solid option, they are my troop of choice, fire and fade will also help to keep them out of rapid fire range :)

The Autarch skyrunner is good, but its not a good idea to let him run free, which is what will happen if he is the only thing in close combat. You are best off to pair him up with Spears.

Fire-prisms... if you can try proxying them and crimson hunters before you drop the $$, personally I find CH do a better job as anti-tank and they are similar points, but the CH's are harder to shoot, so tend to stay in the game longer before degrading or being blown up.

I wouldn't bother with a warlock, they are just too squishy for their points and can be taken out by snipers too easily. Free up some of your points and swap in a spiritseer to hang out with whatever squad in the Wave, more wounds and full smite :)


Offline EndEz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Country: gb
  • Newbie at the game, also Eldar ftw.
  • Armies: Eldar for now.
Re: I’m new and I want to create a Eldar army.
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2018, 06:46:31 AM »

Base Jet-bikes are an anti-infantry unit, use them from the webway to get a big hit in on turn2 then if need be finish of the squad they were fight with long ranged fire support, just becareful where you bring them in, as they can get shot up rather easily. Given your current list, use your Dire Avengers and these to focus fire on a unit :)

Just asking, when you mean from the webway, do you mean take them out of reserve?  I do use them for focus firing btw, I found that they are worse when trying to fight more than one, than when they are all firing on one person.


The Autarch skyrunner is good, but its not a good idea to let him run free, which is what will happen if he is the only thing in close combat. You are best off to pair him up with Spears.

Fire-prisms... if you can try proxying them and crimson hunters before you drop the $$, personally I find CH do a better job as anti-tank and they are similar points, but the CH's are harder to shoot, so tend to stay in the game longer before degrading or being blown up.

I wouldn't bother with a warlock, they are just too squishy for their points and can be taken out by snipers too easily. Free up some of your points and swap in a spiritseer to hang out with whatever squad in the Wave, more wounds and full smite :)
I rarely let my Skyrunner’s go by themselves, and they always stood together, when they could, mostly for the Psykic skills’ range.

What do you mean by proxying? BTW, I went and checked and my army, which I will post in a separate reply to this, is £246.65 from GW, and £108.52 from EBay.

I found that he was one of the best in the army, when he’s defended by others, and none of my friends have snipers. I have been looking into spiritseer’s though.


Post Merge: June 28, 2018, 07:02:26 AM
In the future, please use the modify button. Double posting is against the forum rules, and for that reason, the system merged your posts.

Didn’t know about ^ but I’ll remember this.

My army list, so far. (Will, hopefully, be kept updated)
 28th June  - 1st


Units
Autarch Skyrunner
Warlock Skyrunner
Dire Avengers x2
Wave Serpent
Farseer Skyrunner
Windriders
Fire Prism x2
Crimson Hunter

Models Per Unit
1
1
5
1
1
3
1


Sub total = 961
95
65
80
107
54
310

Loadout
Power Sword, Twin Shuriken Catapult
Shuriken Pistol, witchblade, twin shuriken catapult
Power Glaive and shimmer shield, shuriken catapult x4
2 Bright Lances, 1 Shuriken Cannon
Twin Shuriken Cannon and witchblade
Shuriken Cannon x3
Prism Cannon Lance, Twin Shuriken catapult
2 Bright Lances, 1 Pulse Laser

Grand total = 1146
109
70
104
157
147
84
315
160

Price=246.65
EBay Price=108.52

I really need to know how to get pictures or an actual table or something. This takes so long to do.

Individual model costs and weapon costs removed in accordance with forum rule 1 - Iris.

Wow, I broke a lot of rules. Sorry, won’t happen again.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2018, 06:54:22 AM by EndEz »

Offline magenb

  • Aspect Warrior
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1407
  • Country: au
  • I *LOVE* 40k Online!
Re: Iím new and I want to create a Eldar army.
« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2018, 09:39:45 PM »

Base Jet-bikes are an anti-infantry unit, use them from the webway to get a big hit in on turn2...

Just asking, when you mean from the webway, do you mean take them out of reserve? I do use them for focus firing btw, I found that they are worse when trying to fight more than one, than when they are all firing on one person.


There is a stratagem you can use to put them in reserve, then on Turn 2 you can place them anywhere on the board 9+ inches away from the enemy.

Previous edition your entire unit had to fire at the same target, so when older player say focus fire, it is normally meaning multiple units all shooting into the same thing.

Some units out there do a solid job of trashing a single target on their own, like Necron Immortals, they are also resilient enough that even if the Immortal don't wipe out their target, they can probably live through the return fire.

Eldar are generally speaking too fragile to do that, so when you need to look for ways your units can work together. As an example, you may move your wave serpent flat out on turn 1 to get deep into enemy lines, then turn 2 the Dire avengers pop out of the wave and the wind riders will arrive (Deep striking from webway) near them. Then both units fire into the same enemy unit to wipe it off the table or at least cause massive casualties causing a moral check.



What do you mean by proxying? BTW, I went and checked and my army, which I will post in a separate reply to this, is £246.65 from GW, and £108.52 from EBay.

I found that he was one of the best in the army, when heís defended by others, and none of my friends have snipers. I have been looking into spiritseerís though.

It can be difficult to find things that will fit your army and play style and given the amount of money involved, people are generally fine with putting something on the table that is roughly the same size to represent a given unit in friendly games. So you might play a wave serpent as a Fire prism for a couple of games to get a feel for it.

Tourney's will generally not let you do this, but in a group of friends, its perfectly valid, as they will get to test out units in the same way as well. Then if you like it you can drop money on it. It is also not unheard of for group of friend to just have a test day at some ones place, where they proxy things using stuff that is vaguely the same size like a tissue box, can of coke, the little green plastic men, etc

Snipers can target characters as long as they have line of sight. Just something to be aware of if someone expands their army or if you start having friendly games against random people.



I really need to know how to get pictures or an actual table or something. This takes so long to do.


The button between the "Tt" and the Hash (#) will put in a table, but it can be easier to just type it on one line rather than coding a table in.

EG:
1 x Autarch skyrunner - Power Sword, Twin Shuriken Catapult
5 x Dire Avengers - Power Glaive and shimmer shield, shuriken catapult
5 x Dire Avengers - Power Glaive and shimmer shield, shuriken catapult


There are lots of ways to write up a list, but people seem to use some variation of the formatting below:

HQ - 227 <point total for the group rather than listing points for each units>
1 x Autarch - List upgrades if any
1 x Eldard

Troops 295
10 x Guardians - Shuriken Cannon
10 x Guardians - Shuriken Cannon
10 x Guardians - Bright Lance


Offline Irisado

  • A Light in The Grim-Darkness ~ Guns Don't Kill People, Copyright Stats Do | Farseer | Reporting Live! from the Crime Scene | I killed Dayan and all I got was this stupid rock...
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10977
  • Country: gb
  • SoŮando debajo del arco iris
  • Armies: Globals do not play 40K
Re: Iím new and I want to create a Eldar army.
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2018, 03:56:30 AM »
I really need to know how to get pictures or an actual table or something. This takes so long to do.

If you want to learn more about how to format your posts, there's a very useful guide about how to use BBC here: How To Use Bullentin Board Coding (BBC) [how to post an image, and more].  I would not recommend using tables for writing army lists though, as creating a table takes much longer than writing out a list.
You haunt my in-box like an ex-girl friend could only dream of.

The Forum Rules - Please Read and Remember Them.

SoŮando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline EndEz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Country: gb
  • Newbie at the game, also Eldar ftw.
  • Armies: Eldar for now.
Re: Iím new and I want to create a Eldar army.
« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2018, 07:58:44 AM »

Base Jet-bikes are an anti-infantry unit, use them from the webway to get a big hit in on turn2...

Just asking, when you mean from the webway, do you mean take them out of reserve? I do use them for focus firing btw, I found that they are worse when trying to fight more than one, than when they are all firing on one person.


There is a stratagem you can use to put them in reserve, then on Turn 2 you can place them anywhere on the board 9+ inches away from the enemy.

Previous edition your entire unit had to fire at the same target, so when older player say focus fire, it is normally meaning multiple units all shooting into the same thing.

Some units out there do a solid job of trashing a single target on their own, like Necron Immortals, they are also resilient enough that even if the Immortal don't wipe out their target, they can probably live through the return fire.

Eldar are generally speaking too fragile to do that, so when you need to look for ways your units can work together. As an example, you may move your wave serpent flat out on turn 1 to get deep into enemy lines, then turn 2 the Dire avengers pop out of the wave and the wind riders will arrive (Deep striking from webway) near them. Then both units fire into the same enemy unit to wipe it off the table or at least cause massive casualties causing a moral check.

Iíve never had to fight alone (like one unit/model by themselves) but I will definitely look into the stratagem, is it called Webway Strike?


What do you mean by proxying? BTW, I went and checked and my army, which I will post in a separate reply to this, is £246.65 from GW, and £108.52 from EBay.

I found that he was one of the best in the army, when heís defended by others, and none of my friends have snipers. I have been looking into spiritseerís though.

It can be difficult to find things that will fit your army and play style and given the amount of money involved, people are generally fine with putting something on the table that is roughly the same size to represent a given unit in friendly games. So you might play a wave serpent as a Fire prism for a couple of games to get a feel for it.

Tourney's will generally not let you do this, but in a group of friends, its perfectly valid, as they will get to test out units in the same way as well. Then if you like it you can drop money on it. It is also not unheard of for group of friend to just have a test day at some ones place, where they proxy things using stuff that is vaguely the same size like a tissue box, can of coke, the little green plastic men, etc

Snipers can target characters as long as they have line of sight. Just something to be aware of if someone expands their army or if you start having friendly games against random people.
Iím planning of switching my own Jetbikes for Rangers, but I will probably be proxying a lot.

I really need to know how to get pictures or an actual table or something. This takes so long to do.


The button between the "Tt" and the Hash (#) will put in a table, but it can be easier to just type it on one line rather than coding a table in.

EG:
1 x Autarch skyrunner - Power Sword, Twin Shuriken Catapult
5 x Dire Avengers - Power Glaive and shimmer shield, shuriken catapult
5 x Dire Avengers - Power Glaive and shimmer shield, shuriken catapult


There are lots of ways to write up a list, but people seem to use some variation of the formatting below:

HQ - 227 <point total for the group rather than listing points for each units>
1 x Autarch - List upgrades if any
1 x Eldard

Troops 295
10 x Guardians - Shuriken Cannon
10 x Guardians - Shuriken Cannon
10 x Guardians - Bright Lance


Next time I will add the table in a image of some sort, hopefully this site allows Imgur.

Oh and sorry for breaking the rules, will try to not do it again.

Offline Alienscar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1167
  • Country: 00
  • I *LOVE* 40k Online!
Re: Iím new and I want to create a Eldar army.
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2018, 10:09:26 AM »
Hi EndEz.

I can't help you with your army creation, but I have produced a table for you. As magenb has said tables aren't the easiest of things to use, but once you have grasped the basics they aren't too bad.

Instead of me explaining how the coding works have a look at this excellent GUIDE written by Makenshi & Goldfish. It is quite long but worth a read if you want to have  go yourself.

I have left the Sub Total field empty as you have eight units, but only six sub totals and I didn't know which sub total belonged to which unit.

I have left a big gap in the coding so that you know where the sub total quantity should go. If you quote my reply the coding will show and you can copy the coding and have a go at entering the sub total values.


Units|Models Per Unit|Sub Total| Loadout|Grand Total
Autarch Skyrunner| 1|    | Power Sword, Twin Shuriken Catapult
| 109
Warlock Skyrunner| 1|    | Shuriken Pistol, witchblade, twin shuriken catapult
| 70
Dire Avengers x2| 5|    | Power Glaive and shimmer shield, shuriken catapult x4
| 104
Wave Serpent| 1|    | 2 Bright Lances, 1 Shuriken Cannon
| 157
Farseer Skyrunner| 1|    | Twin Shuriken Cannon and witchblade | 147
Windriders| 3|    | Shuriken Cannon x3| 84
Fire Prism x2| 2|    | Prism Cannon Lance, Twin Shuriken catapult| 315
Crimson Hunter| 1|    | 2 Bright Lances, 1 Pulse Laser
| 160
Quote from: Starrakatt
"Russ, get your work done or you won't see your damn console for the next month!"
Quote from: Cavalier
Honestly Alienscar, we get it... you dont like painting!

 


Powered by EzPortal