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Author Topic: Fire Prisms...worth it?  (Read 613 times)

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Offline The Reborn

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Fire Prisms...worth it?
« on: May 16, 2018, 05:26:07 AM »
Hi guys,

I own a single Fire prism and it would be fair to say that I've given it every chance to prove its worth over the last several years....thing is, it lets me down again and again.  I love the tank, looks great on the table and scares my opponents, but it is decidedly underwhelming during play.

So, with the option to link, would it be worth it to get another one?

Can you please tell me if you use two, and if so how they work out for you?

Cheers, Reborn. :)

Offline Partninja

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Re: Fire Prisms...worth it?
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2018, 05:35:07 AM »
Proxy one and try. With the recent FAQ I was hoping they would reduce the points to make it more competitive compares to Reapers. They decided to go the other way...

Hoping the the next chapter approved makes some adjustments.

Offline The Reborn

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Re: Fire Prisms...worth it?
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2018, 07:11:59 AM »
Partninja, thanks.

I have to say, my opponents generally gun my Reapers down in two turns....usually from 9" away.... :-\
The Prism usually survives.

Offline Iluvhir Strafermeyer

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Re: Fire Prisms...worth it?
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2018, 09:31:09 AM »
Cerka!
I like to run 2 prisms and 9-10 Reapers as my Heavy Support choices, and I've done it several times in 8th ed now, so lemme give you my opinion:

Two prisms generally work great so long as you always use the stratagem, and never move them more than you're allowed in order to fire twice. A single prism, unfortunately, is just a waste of points. That's the short version.

To go into detail:
The damage output of two prisms (using the stratagem and firing twice, of course) is great, no matter which weapon profile you choose.
The strength of the prism is its versatility. Note that if you want to use them for a specific purpose, there are better choices. That's the main thing to keep in mind.
For instance, I use mine mainly as tank hunters, so in theory it would be better to just take war walkers (4 WWs with lances cost just a little more than 2 prisms). However, every once in a while I get lucky enough to take out my opponent's tanks early on, and then the versatility of the prisms come into play as I can just start using another weapon profile and keep on blasting things off the table.
It is important to note, though, that as soon as one prism is destroyed, the power of the remaining prism drops exponentially (due to no longer being able to use the stratagem).
In other words, how much value you'll get out of your prisms depend on your ability (and your opponent's inability) to take one out. As an example, one of my opponents recently learned just how worthless a single prism is on its own that after he takes one of the two out, he just ignores the remaining one as it's only a minor threat from that point on.
I'll never take a single prism in this edition, but I'll still gladly take two.
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Offline Partninja

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Re: Fire Prisms...worth it?
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2018, 11:44:02 AM »
Partninja, thanks.

I have to say, my opponents generally gun my Reapers down in two turns....usually from 9" away.... :-\
The Prism usually survives.

Generally speaking my games don't last longer than turn 3 before someone concedes. So two turns is pretty good. If your reapers are being killed by threats 9" away you need to better surround them and deny your opponents locations to deepstrike. Not always easier said than done obviously. If you took Prisms over Reapers they would be the new target priority. Iyanden trait helps Prisms keep firing for longer. I always take spirit stones on them as well.

Offline Killersquid

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Re: Fire Prisms...worth it?
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2018, 11:53:33 AM »
You might consider deploying the reapers in a wave serpent, and then deploying them too shoot. Keeps them safe until you have a chance to activate them, and they don't suffer penalties to shoot.

Fire prisms are quite good. Especially with that strategem they have.

Both the units are even better when buffed by spells like guide and doom.
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Offline The Reborn

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Re: Fire Prisms...worth it?
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2018, 02:18:54 PM »
Iluvhir :)

Cerka!!  Thank you for your assessment, exactly what I was looking for sir.

Partninja, KS....cheers gentlemen, your experience and advice is much appreciated. I now will use the Iyanden trait and try reapers in serpents for drive-by shenanigans...thank s guys.😊

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Re: Fire Prisms...worth it?
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2018, 03:30:45 PM »
You don't need to drive by them. You can drop off the reapers in your deployment zone. It's just a way they don't get shot off the table t1.
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Offline Grizzlykin

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Re: Fire Prisms...worth it?
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2018, 03:38:42 PM »
You don't need to drive by them. You can drop off the reapers in your deployment zone. It's just a way they don't get shot off the table t1.

and afterwards you can use your seprent to either support somethign else on the board, OR you can use it to try to deny potential deep stricking from you opponent to protect your reaper from that.
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Offline Partninja

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Re: Fire Prisms...worth it?
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2018, 03:40:22 PM »
Or put them in the webway.

Offline Cavalier

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Re: Fire Prisms...worth it?
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2018, 04:03:14 PM »
I think the Fire Prisms are fantastic. If the models were available I'd have 2 of them on my table right now. They are so hard hitting, so versatile and very mobile.

I dont think you even need 2 of them though. The stratagem is fantastic, but just a single one with a Farseer is just fine.

That being said I dont count on any 1 type of unit, especially for my anti-tank duties. I have a big unit of Reapers, 2 Crimson Hunters and a load of Blasters with my DE attack wing and even then I find myself lacking AT at times.

So if you do want to field them (and I recommend it 100%) I'd also have additional units backing them up.

Also like Ninja said... about your Reapers, you gotta screen them. I bubble wrap mine with 3 units of Rangers and sometimes a unit of DE Warriors on foot every game. If you can put them in a corner where your opponent can't get at them from multiple angles, it makes it easier to bubble wrap as well. But you gotta have screens for all your heavy hitters.

You can also Webway them in if you want to protect them. With the new CP's for battalions, spending a single CP to keep them in reserves is a super easy call.
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Offline magenb

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Re: Fire Prisms...worth it?
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2018, 05:11:19 PM »
Eldar tanks are not very... optimal.. they are just OK in a book that has a bunch of great stuff.

If you want AT then for the same points you can take a flier and have a reliable number of shots, its harder to assault and harder to hit. If you want hard hitting anti-infantry then a CH-Exarch with two starcannons is only 5 points more and again has a reliable shot count, etc.

For less points I can get a 5 man Shinning spear squad, or 10 points more gets me a 5 man Repear or Shadow Spectre squad.

If the base shots was 2d3 instead of 1d6, then I would be more inclind to take it, especially with the double shot rule putting that up to 4d3, but as is, its far too common with my dice rolls to just fizzle out when I need something done.

A single FP is very easy for most armies to deal with, even if they don't out right destroy it, it just degrades to meh, which is why people say to take them in pairs. The other thing is, because they are so easy to nuke, you kind of need to run them as Iyanden, so you have to find a way to squeeze that detachment in if your not building the entire force that way.



Reapers, always run them with a farseer near by and keep a couple of CP handy, they are fantastic at smashing Deepstriking units :) I normally have guardians or DA's near them to stop anything truely nasty rushing them or getting rapid fire shots in, so positioning is key.

That said, I have left a hole open on purpose, to temp them to drop a DS unit in that spot :)


Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Fire Prisms...worth it?
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2018, 11:19:48 PM »
I have used two in multiple games and love them. I actually have quite a few and think it may almost be better to run 3. My opponents now regularly focus down one to stop me from using the linked fire strat. That, along with their versatility, is what makes them so good.

I would def try two out, proxy if need be.
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Offline Iluvhir Strafermeyer

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Re: Fire Prisms...worth it?
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2018, 12:05:30 PM »
Another thing to consider is that the prism stratagem frees your farseer up to cast guide and doom on other targets. It cannot be overstated how strong that stratagem is.

As Faitherun mentioned - taking 3 of them may increase the value even more (because now your opponent need to destroy 2 of them to remove the option of using the stratagem).
Personally, though, I like lists that are varied, so taking 3 prisms is something I likely won't do. It's too many points into what is essentially a single unit for my taste. That being said, it is quite possibly a very good option if you don't mind having so many of the same tank.
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Offline Cavalier

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Re: Fire Prisms...worth it?
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2018, 02:31:26 PM »
@Iluvhir Strafermeyer- Good point man. Yeah their are a number of anti-armor options that are pretty self-sufficient. Crimson Hunter Exarchs with their various re-rolls, the Prisms etc. I actually like the idea of having a mix of all that stuff in a single list. A couple Prisms, some Dark Reapers and lone Crimson Hunter are all excellent. Especially in an Alaitoc detachment. Maddeningly elusive, great mix of armor and bodies and all very versatile.
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Offline bca11

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Re: Fire Prisms...worth it?
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2018, 08:11:38 PM »
Cerka!
I like to run 2 prisms and 9-10 Reapers as my Heavy Support choices, and I've done it several times in 8th ed now, so lemme give you my opinion:

I do this as well. I placed 3rd in my last local league, tabling 3 opponents and losing narrowly (11-9) to the 1st place winner. The combination of the two is devastating, even post FAQ. The reapers can be easily kept out of LOS and then more up to shoot without penalty, and the prisms can generally range the table and set up a crossfire that itís hard to hide from. Keep them well screened with rangers / guardians / dire avengers and youíve got a solid list that will consistently kill unit after unit.

 


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