News:

Login  |  Register

Author Topic: A Post-FAQ Comparison of Eldar HQs  (Read 1177 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Blazinghand

  • Aspect Warrior | Master of the Ravenwing
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1146
  • Country: us
  • Die for the Emperor or die trying!
  • Armies: Eldar, Orks
A Post-FAQ Comparison of Eldar HQs
« on: April 24, 2018, 06:32:40 PM »
Hi 40kO,

Here are some quick thoughts on the state of Craftworld Eldar HQ units now that their prices and rules have been adjusted in the new FAQ.

Phoenix Lords & The Avatar of Khaine - the relative strength of these remains what it was before the FAQ. Baharroth and Karandras are a bit weaker due to both them and the Aspect Warriors they support taking a hit due to the new beta reserves rules. Illic and Yriel are about where they were as well.

Autarch Variants - No major changes here. The Swooping Hawk Wings Autarch is a bit worse under the new beta reserves rules, but it wasn't too uncommon to bring him down within your own lines anyways.


The main attraction here is the changes to our psykers, though, particularly the points costs for Farseer and Warlock. What does that do for us?


Eldrad Ulthran - Now that the Farseer is more expensive, Eldrad is, relatively speaking, a better deal. He's about 50% more durable than a Farseer and 50% more capable at spellcasting, not counting his bonuses to cast. Eldrad used to be just about 50% more expensive than a Farseer, making him a reasonable choice. Now he is only 35% more expensive than a Farseer, making him a must-take in any Ulthwé Army.

Farseer - The price increase is minor compared to the huge utility this unit provides. The Farseer remains an excellent choice in every Eldar Army. I will continue to run one.

Farseer Skyrunner - Due to the Farseer price increase, the gap between Farseer and Farseer skyrunner is smaller. For a mere 23% increase in price over the base Farseer, you are getting plenty of shuriken shots, higher toughness, and great mobility. I find that the solid base mobility of the Farseer to be good enough for my purposes, but this is now a much more reasonable choice.

Warlock - The significant price increase to the foot Warlock means you are now paying typical-HQ prices for what is very much a not-a-typical-HQ-durability model. This guy dies to 6 snipers shooting at him on average. Back when he was very cheap, this wasn't a problem. Nowadays, unless you absolutely cannot spare the points, you should upgrade him to a Warlock Skyrunner or Spiritseer. I won't be running this HQ any more.

Spiritseer - We all knew the points nerf was coming for this model. Interestingly, as the Warlock has also taken an equal-sized nerf, the Spiritseer remains a solid HQ choice. You may not care for the Spirit Mark or the better Smite, but for a small 18% price increase (down from 28%), taking a Spiritseer instead of a Warlock means you won't lose your HQ to your first perils, which matters a lot more now that we're north of 50 points per model.  I will replace a Warlock or two with a Spiritseer.

Warlock Skyrunner - As it hasn't faced a price increase, the Warlock Skyrunner is only a little more expensive than a foot Warlock. The extra toughness and wound make it comparable to a spiritseer, but it can still die to its first Perils. Since the upgrade is so cheap, it's much more worth it, particularly since 1/3 of the cost of the upgrade is the guns that come on the jetbike. I'll take one of these.

Warlock Conclave - This was our worst HQ unit before the FAQ, and I think it still is, even if the discount compared to base Warlock price is greater than it used to be. Lacking the Character keyword and being generally expensive for its level of durability, this unit should only be taken if you have a particular need to use Concordance of Power for something.

Warlock Skyrunner Conclave - No changes here, though relatively cheaper compared to Warlock Conclave.


--

Side Note: The Hemlock Wraithfighter is now, relatively speaking, stronger than it used to be. If you consider "ability to cast Jinx on a particular enemy" to be part of its package, for example, the relative difficulty of getting this from elsewhere in the army has gone up. To demonstrate, imagine if every Runes of Battle caster cost at least 140 points. This would make the Hemlock the best source of Jinx. The Hemlock isn't stronger than it used to be, but other units that do the same thing are weaker (for their cost) and so it should be considered more seriously.

--


Additional Thoughts:

I used to previously run a detachment like this:

Pre-FAQ Battalion - 2 Warlocks, 3 units of 5 Rangers - 250

I found it to be inexpensive and capable of adding a lot of flexibility to my army. Even if the Warlocks underperformed, or died to Perils, or were redundant with other Runes of Battle casters from my other Battalion, it wasn't a major issue because they were so cheap. If I were to run this detachment today, the Warlocks would be 39% of its cost rather than 28% of its cost. It is more difficult for them to earn their points back by supporting units, and every one lost to Perils or a few snipers is a big punch to the gut.

Warlocks are now a significantly bigger tax. This is particularly the case when you bear in mind that a Farseer costs about the price of 2 Warlocks, and has similar casting abilities. Is that Protect really better than a Fortune? Is that Jinx better than an Executioner or a Guide? If it weren't for the fact that 2 Warlocks take up 2 HQ slots and 1 Farseer takes up only 1, a lot of times there would be a case to be made for taking a second Farseer over a pair of Warlocks, particularly given how vulnerable Warlocks are to Perils.

The best choice, in my view, is to try to mitigate the downsides of Warlock. If our Psyker that can cast Runes of Battle is going to be expensive, we should invest the points to protect them from Perils and easy sniping.

The Spiritseer is in my view the obvious choice over the Warlock, now, even if you don't intend to smite. The Warlock Skyrunner is only marginally more expensive, and though he can still die to perils, it's less likely, and he comes with good dakka and maneuverability.

Some new Battalion layouts I am considering:

Battalion - 2 Spiritseers, 3 units of 5 Rangers - 310

Battalion - 1 Spiritseer, 1 Warlock Skyrunner, 3 units of 5 Rangers - 315

I am also considerering dropping my second Battalion. Now that Battalions grant almost twice as many CP, and Eldar's cheap HQs are much less cheap, Swapping from Battalion+Battalion+Vanguard to Battalion+Vanguard seems like a natural choice.

Bat+Bat+Van under the old system yielded 10 CP, and leaving out the Farseer leading the Van, required 4 Warlocks costing 140 pts total

Bat+Van under the new system yields 9 CP, and leaving out the Farseer leading the van, can be run with 2 Spiritseers which is cheap enough to make up for the increased Farseer price.

This way, although I lose access to a couple spellcasts per turn, I can leave the rest of my army mostly untouched and keep roughly the same CP.

How about you? What are your plans for Eldar HQs now, in the shadow of the big FAQ? Has anyone found a good use for the new Warlock?
Quote from: Howard Zinn
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.

Offline bca11

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 841
  • Country: 00
Re: A Post-FAQ Comparison of Eldar HQs
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2018, 07:15:02 PM »
I've only run the warlock in one game post-faq. He still did well. I'm not sure he would be worth it against a sniper list though. In most situations, I'd go with a spiritseer, but I could see some utility in using a warlock to give Eldrad a +1 to casting, which the spiritseer can't do (strangely enough). Of course you could do this with a skyrunner for only a slight increase and still enjoy the mobility and durability to zoom over to a late game objective grab, so once again, the case for the warlock is hard to make.


Offline Blazinghand

  • Aspect Warrior | Master of the Ravenwing
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1146
  • Country: us
  • Die for the Emperor or die trying!
  • Armies: Eldar, Orks
Re: A Post-FAQ Comparison of Eldar HQs
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2018, 08:11:45 PM »
Ah, I hadn't thought about Seer Council-- you can't do that with Spiritseer as it lacks the WARLOCK keyword. This throws a wrench in things, as I often like to use that stratagem. Perhaps this means a Warlock Skyrunner is the right choice.
Quote from: Howard Zinn
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.

Offline Cavalier

  • One Archon to Rules Test Them All | High Corsair Prince of Painting | Warlock
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2532
  • Country: us
  • Renegade Autarch
  • Armies: Eldar, Dark Angels, World Eaters
Re: A Post-FAQ Comparison of Eldar HQs
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2018, 06:31:46 AM »
@Blazinghand- Great write up bud. I agree with you on most points. I dont think Warlocks needed a point increase. They weren't being spammed and while their powers are awesome, again people weren't spamming them. I think the Spiritseer is the way to go. I've only gotten in one game post-FAQ and I opted for Spiritseer just to get full blast smite.

About detachments I played a double battalion with my Flayed Skull, Alaitoc combo and it was awesome having all those CP's. I was able to do "Lightning Fast Reflexes" and not really blink, same with "Eviscerating Flyby" on the Reavers. It really helped me stay in the game after some bad initial moves. Anyway great stuff Blazinghand love it!
Check out my army! Eldar Corsair Army

I'm also on the Splintermind Podcast! http://www.facebook.com/splintermindpodcast/

Offline Fenris

  • Aspect Warrior
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2153
  • Country: se
  • Armies: Eldar, Dark Eldar, Aeldari
Re: A Post-FAQ Comparison of Eldar HQs
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2018, 08:39:20 AM »
Good write up, I agree with most points, but some I don't agree with and I will try to explain why.

Baharroth & Swooping Hawks
don't really suffer IMO, I always fielded them on the table from start anyway.

Avatar of khaine is slightly stronger due to the new character rules, which makes it easier for him to hunt other characters and he was not a character you would hide behind other characters before anyway.

Autarchs
are comparatively to the other options stronger as a cheap HQ, they also do not sufer perils or failures with their abilities when you most need them.

Spiritseers or warlock on a skyrunner
is still ok if you really need that quicken, best if you can give them the Biel-tan stone so they are just as reliable as a farseer. (they only cast one power each phase anyway)

Illic Nightspear
is definately to count on now, cheaper than most Autarchs (after gear is included), and several beatstick characters got a points hike, not to mention psykers, so either we won't see them or Illics gun is actually gonna hurt them. New character rules is also in his favor.



Regarding the formation, I will go from 1x brigade to 3x battalion, with a fate reading Autarch skyrunner.

Ego in propria persona, non compos mentis.

Offline Blazinghand

  • Aspect Warrior | Master of the Ravenwing
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1146
  • Country: us
  • Die for the Emperor or die trying!
  • Armies: Eldar, Orks
Re: A Post-FAQ Comparison of Eldar HQs
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2018, 04:58:34 PM »
Regarding force organization in general, I think that if you can afford 4 HQs, double battalion is a great idea now.

Pre FAQ:
Double Battalion - 9 CP
Brigade - 12 CP

Post FAQ:
Double battalion - 13 CP
Brigade - 15 CP

However, the fact that double battalion requires an extra HQ over Brigade is more of a problem now, given that our cheaper HQs have gone up in price. I think I will be giving Brigade less consideration though, given how powerful double battalion is now.

Potential HQ lineup for double battalion:

Farseer, Autarch on foot with Relic: Faolchu's Wing, Spiritseer, Warlock Skyrunner - total: 325~350 depending on wargear

Spending 350 pts on HQs is quite a lot in a 2k points game, given that these HQs are all support units, but if you can get good value out of the Autarch giving re-rolls and the spellcasting, it could be a good deal.
Quote from: Howard Zinn
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.

Offline Fenris

  • Aspect Warrior
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2153
  • Country: se
  • Armies: Eldar, Dark Eldar, Aeldari
Re: A Post-FAQ Comparison of Eldar HQs
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2018, 05:54:18 PM »
I'm actually considering a list with these HQ's for 3 battalions:

Biel-Tan:
Asurmen
Spiritseer with Spirit stone of anath'lan.
Ulthwé:
Eldrad Ulthran
Autarch skyrunner with Banshee mask & laser lance.
Alaitoc:
Illic Nightspear
Autarch with shiftshroud of alanssair or Faolchu's wing, banshee mask, reaper launcher, power sword.

My concern is however that those Autarchs only buff their <craftworld> units.
For warlord I'm split between taking "fate reader" on the Autarch skyrunner or "mark of the incomparable hunter" on the one on foot.
With Faolchu's wing I might even swap place with the spiritseer to boost non-shuriken aspects.

The idea is to have 3 or 4 of these characters mounted in serpents with biel-tan aspects, Illic and the skyrunners are obviously on their own, with the skyrunner Autarch buffing the Serpents' shooting, maybe even their shield discharges?

Sure it's about 1/3 of the army but some of these are quite nasty combos.
2 sniper characters with 3x5 rangers picking of the last wounds of characters is not healthy for armies that rely on buff characters. Eldrad could take mind war to make it even nastier.

With 18CP and fate reader autarch you will get +2CP if the battle lasts for 6 turns and you'll recycle 3.33 of these, then .56 of those and so on so say 24CP in total.

The spiritseer is a reliable source of quicken or smite and Asurmen is just hard to kill and can help all aspect warriors, particularly good to keep fire dragons or dark reapers around a little longer, and hey the aura works for shining spears in CC and for Crimson hunters too.

Both autarchs can also deny overwatch.
Ego in propria persona, non compos mentis.

 


Powered by EzPortal