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Author Topic: 2000 point Biel-Tan tournament list  (Read 1625 times)

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Offline Sarkrim

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2000 point Biel-Tan tournament list
« on: March 4, 2018, 08:02:19 PM »
So I'm finally back to playing eldar after a good while of dabbling in (almost) pure IG tank lists. It was a lot of fun but it's time to come back to the army I much prefer to play.

For reasons only known to Khaine, I'm going to the London GT this year together with some friends and I'll be bringing a Biel-Tan list. This is where you guys come in, I'd really appreciate some help in fine tuning the list.

Currently this is what it looks like:

Biel-Tan Swordwind [109 PL, 1997pts]

Brigade Detachment +9CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds)

Craftworld Attribute: Biel-Tan: Swordwind

HQ

Autarch: Biel-Tan: Natural Leader, Forceshield, Star Glaive, Warlord

Farseer: 1. Guide, 2. Doom, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

Spiritseer: 4. Protect/Jinx, Shuriken Pistol, The Spirit Stone of Anath'lan

Troops

Dire Avengers
5x Dire Avenger, Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

Dire Avengers
5x Dire Avenger, Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults


Guardian Defenders:
20x Guardian Defenders
2x Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Shuriken Cannon

Rangers:
5x Ranger

Rangers:
5x Ranger

Rangers:
5x Ranger

Elites

Bonesinger

Bonesinger

Howling Banshees
7x Howling Banshee, Exarch: Mirrorswords

Fast Attack

Swooping Hawks
4x Swooping Hawks, Exarch: Lasblaster

Swooping Hawks
4x Swooping Hawks, Exarch: Lasblaster

Swooping Hawks
4x Swooping Hawks, Exarch: Lasblaster

Heavy Support

Fire Prism: Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Fire Prism: Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Night Spinner: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

Night Spinner: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

Dedicated Transport

Wave Serpent: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Star Engines, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Vectored Engines

The general plan is to deep strike the Guardians, stuff the 2 units of Dire Avengers into the wave serpent, alternatively 1 unit and the characters, Hide the Banshees out of sight and protect my deployment zone with the rangers.

The double Fire Prism and Night Spinner is to deal with multi-wound models and bigger things. A previous iteration of the list had no Fire Prisms and I was a bit worried about the lack of anti-tank at that point.

Currently I'm unsure what role the banshees will play and they could, and probably should, be changed for something else. Hell the list doesn't even have to be a brigade, but I've found eldar to be quite CP hungry so it made sense, it also gets around the no duplication rule that's in effect at the London GT.

The lack of Dark Reapers and Shining Spears is due to the fact that I have no idea what the FAQ coming this month will do to them, so I thought it best to leave them out and adopt a wait and see attitude. If it turns out they don't take too big a hit, they can be included in the army.

So am I on to something that could work here, or is it so far out in left field that I need to scrap the idea and start over?

Keep in mind that it will be Biel-Tan so no Ynnari or Alaitoc shenanigans. I've always been drawn to Biel-Tan and I want to stay true to that.

Offline Partninja

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Re: 2000 point Biel-Tan tournament list
« Reply #1 on: March 4, 2018, 09:46:06 PM »
I feel like a lot of the units gain little benefit from being Biel-tan that the Autarch can't provide himself (and apply to any weapon). Unless you're doubling down on 100% Shuriken specific units any other craftworld trait would be more applicable in this list.

Offline Sarkrim

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Re: 2000 point Biel-Tan tournament list
« Reply #2 on: March 5, 2018, 07:13:58 AM »
An all out shuriken list would potentially struggle against anything with T7+. I'd much prefer not having to rely on 5+ to wound rolls in order to scratch the paint on something big and tough. Besides it's not really what Biel-Tan is known for traditionally. The other part of the craftworld trait enables you to run larger aspect warrior squads and avoid losses to morale checks most of the time.

I'd much prefer having an nearly all aspect warrior list, but it suffers from a couple of things: Eldar is still only T3 and at best 3+ saves so they die rather easily to a lot of things and anti-tank gets a bit tricky with an all aspect list.

Now Biel-Tan have been described as having a large number of Falcons, so that could be a way to mitigate both problems. Use them as anti-tank platforms and as a delivery method for aspect warriors that needs to get close (e.g. Howling Banshees and Fire Dragons).

I'm well aware that a Biel-Tan list, playing to the strengths of the trait will never be as cutthroat competitive as Alaitoc or Ynnari, but that's ok with me as I don't have the skill to compete at the highest tier at the London GT anyway. So I'd much rather bring a thematic list that can do well in the midfield and more importantly have a lot of fun with it.

Offline Partninja

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Re: 2000 point Biel-Tan tournament list
« Reply #3 on: March 5, 2018, 09:08:18 AM »
That's my point. You're not leveraging either bonus. The LD bonus for aspects I've always found moot. Either they have a good enough LD already or if they've taken so many casualties, and lost more to failing morale, the unit is dead anyway. If you're focused on LD and morale, Iyanden would be a better trait. It would also benefit all of those vehicles in a big way.

An all aspect list has access to Fire Dragons and Crimson Hunters. Perfect AT so I'm not sure the concern.

Edit: I also didn't mean to imply that you should go all shuriken. Just that's it's wasteful not to focus on that if you're going Biel-tan. As above, the LD bonus is less useful. Part of my gripe with 8th edition Eldar is some of the Craftworld traits feel more applicable to other craftworlds than what GW has assigned them.
« Last Edit: March 5, 2018, 09:10:42 AM by Partninja »

Offline Sarkrim

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Re: 2000 point Biel-Tan tournament list
« Reply #4 on: March 5, 2018, 09:44:40 AM »
So we agree in a roundabout way. The initial list is better off as either Alaitoc or Iyanden, possibly Ulthwë. So scrapping that list and focusing more of the description of the Swordwind, e.g. tons of aspect warriors and in order to get the most out of that craftworld trait, as many shuriken weapons as possible without compromising on utility.

I love Fire Dragons, but my main problem with them is that they need to either deep strike or hitch a ride in a serpent or falcon. Falcon could make sense as Biel-Tan uses a lot of falcons and serpents. Plus it would provide an extra layer of anti-tank. Otherwise stick them in a serpent.

A Crimson hunter or two would be a logical choice and together with a unit of dragons and their transport they could easily cover the AT needs.

As for shuriken wielding aspects, we got Dire Avengers (no brainer), Howling Banshees, Striking Scorpions and Shining Spears.

So far I haven't had the best results with banshees and scorpions. They just never seem to do enough in game. The scorpions seems to be the worst offender of the two, I don't think I've had them kill enough more than once.

Shining Spears both benefit from the craftworld trait and deliver a huge punch and Dire Avengers are low profile enough that most people seem to ignore them to begin with, plus they have enough shooting to get some work done or help soften up targets for later. I'll admit that I'm tempted to bring a unit of Guardians for deep striking and removing a unit.

So maybe something like this, it's by no means a finished list:

Battalion:
 
Autarch on foot

Warlock

Warlock

6 Dire Avengers including exarch with 2 catapults

6 Dire Avengers including exarch with 2 catapults

20 guardians with 2 shuriken cannon platforms

6 Fire Dragons including exarch with Fire Pike

10 Howling Banshees including exarch with Mirrorswords

7 Shining Spears including exarch with Star Lance

Falcon with Bright Lance, Shuriken Cannon, Pulse Laser and CTM

Crimson Hunter Exarch with Bright Lances

Wave Serpent with Twin Shuriken cannon & Shuriken Cannon

Wave Serpent with Twin Shuriken cannon & Shuriken Cannon

I'm considering tossing one of the warlocks again and taking a unit of 3 Vypers with 2 Shuriken Cannons each, both for forward objective grabbing and added fire support that has to be respected.

Thoughts?

*Edit*

Went ahead and filled out the last points and ended up with this:

Battalion:

Autarch on foot

Warlock

6 Dire Avengers including exarch with 2 catapults

6 Dire Avengers including exarch with 2 catapults

20 guardians with 2 shuriken cannon platforms

6 Fire Dragons including exarch with Fire Pike

10 Howling Banshees including exarch with Mirrorswords

7 Shadow Spectres

7 Shining Spears including exarch with Star Lance

3 Vypers with double Shuriken Cannon

Falcon with Bright Lance, Shuriken Cannon, Pulse Laser and CTM

Crimson Hunter Exarch with Bright Lances

Wave Serpent with Twin Shuriken cannon & Shuriken Cannon

Wave Serpent with Twin Shuriken cannon & Shuriken Cannon

It ends up being a very fast army while losing none of the Biel-Tan feel and actually taking decent advantage of the craftworld trait (I think). At least there's enough shuriken fire to give a lot of things pause.
« Last Edit: March 5, 2018, 11:34:45 AM by Sarkrim »

Offline SeekingOne

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Re: 2000 point Biel-Tan tournament list
« Reply #5 on: March 6, 2018, 03:11:02 AM »
The latest list looks quite good with the exception of one thing: the Falcon. It's one of the least points-efficient units in the codex, really serving no clear purpose. I'd definitely replace it with one more Crimson Hunter.

Not familiar with Shadow Spectres but had an impression that most FW units are badly overpriced now...
I fight against Chaos and for Order, because it means fighting for Life against Death. There is no other battle truly worth fighting.

"If it's not for a tournament then play whatever it is that you like. Without the pressure of having to utterly destroy your opponent it opens up alot more opportunity to have fun." - Lazarus

Offline Sarkrim

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Re: 2000 point Biel-Tan tournament list
« Reply #6 on: March 6, 2018, 03:20:23 AM »
In this case it does serve a purpose, it'll deliver the Fire Dragons to where they need to go and provide backup for them on the tank or monster killing. It can also act as a safety net for a character or another unit on foot through the Fire and Fade stratagem. It also serves as an objective grabber once it has delivered the cargo. I do agree that it's priced slightly too high currently.

I could of course deep strike the dragons, but I'd prefer not having to be locked into which units I deploy that way.

Shadow Spectres are probably priced somewhat higher than they should be, but they can still get work done even at that price. I have however been thinking about dropping 2 of them and take a few extra Shining Spears or drop 2 spectres and a banshee, and add another spear and a Warlock.

*Edit*

I need the tank or monster killing power that much is certain, but it doesn't necessarily have to be in form of Fire Dragons. I'll admit that they're mostly there because they are adequate at the job and I love the models. But what would be another way to bring in AT and stay true to the mostly aspect warriors theme of Biel-Tan?
« Last Edit: March 6, 2018, 03:34:32 AM by Sarkrim »

Offline SeekingOne

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Re: 2000 point Biel-Tan tournament list
« Reply #7 on: March 6, 2018, 03:51:09 AM »
In this case it does serve a purpose, it'll deliver the Fire Dragons to where they need to go and provide backup for them on the tank or monster killing. It can also act as a safety net for a character or another unit on foot through the Fire and Fade stratagem. It also serves as an objective grabber once it has delivered the cargo. I do agree that it's priced slightly too high currently.
But you have 2 Wave Serpents, don't you? I thought one of them is for Banshees and the other one is for Dragons. Now I see that you likely intended the second WS for Avengers - but in my experience they don't really need transportation. Their range is long enough to get to their targets on foot, and, painful as it may be to say such thing about noble Eldar warriors, they are not really valuable enough to justify investing into a WS to keep them alive.

Quote
a few extra Shining Spears or drop 2 spectres and a banshee, and add another spear and a Warlock.
A few extra Shining Spears never hurts :) Especially seeing that they do benefit from the Biel-Tan attribute quite significantly.

Quote
I need the tank or monster killing power that much is certain, but it doesn't necessarily have to be in form of Fire Dragons. I'll admit that they're mostly there because they are adequate at the job and I love the models. But what would be another way to bring in AT and stay true to the mostly aspect warriors theme of Biel-Tan?
Again, let me point in the direction of Crimson Hunters. Even though they don't really benefit from the Biel-Tan attribute, they are Aspect warriors and thus 100% fit the theme. In terms of AT duty they are nothing if not awesome.
I fight against Chaos and for Order, because it means fighting for Life against Death. There is no other battle truly worth fighting.

"If it's not for a tournament then play whatever it is that you like. Without the pressure of having to utterly destroy your opponent it opens up alot more opportunity to have fun." - Lazarus

Offline Sarkrim

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Re: 2000 point Biel-Tan tournament list
« Reply #8 on: March 6, 2018, 04:15:04 AM »

In this case it does serve a purpose, it'll deliver the Fire Dragons to where they need to go and provide backup for them on the tank or monster killing. It can also act as a safety net for a character or another unit on foot through the Fire and Fade stratagem. It also serves as an objective grabber once it has delivered the cargo. I do agree that it's priced slightly too high currently.
But you have 2 Wave Serpents, don't you? I thought one of them is for Banshees and the other one is for Dragons. Now I see that you likely intended the second WS for Avengers - but in my experience they don't really need transportation. Their range is long enough to get to their targets on foot, and, painful as it may be to say such thing about noble Eldar warriors, they are not really valuable enough to justify investing into a WS to keep them alive.

I agree that they don't really need it, it's more a matter of trying to limit the number of drops to increase the chance of having first turn.

A few extra Shining Spears never hurts :) Especially seeing that they do benefit from the Biel-Tan attribute quite significantly.

Again, let me point in the direction of Crimson Hunters. Even though they don't really benefit from the Biel-Tan attribute, they are Aspect warriors and thus 100% fit the theme. In terms of AT duty they are nothing if not awesome.


A second Crimson Hunter it is, it'll have to be a regular one, the exarch needs someone to boss around anyway.

Updated list:

Battalion

Autarch
Farseer
Warlock

6 Dire Avengers, including exarch with 2 catapults
6 Dire Avengers, including exarch with 2 catapults
20 Guardians with 2 Shuriken Cannon platforms

9 Howling Banshees, including exarch with Mirrorswords

9 Shining Spears, including exarch with Star Lance
3 Vypers with 2 Shuriken Cannons

Wave Serpent with Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines, Star Engines, Twin Shuriken Cannon & Shuriken Cannon
Wave Serpent with Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines, Star Engines, Twin Shuriken Cannon & Shuriken Cannon

Airwing detachment

Crimson Hunter
Crimson Hunter
Crimson Hunter Exarch


The Mirrorswords on the banshee exarch is due to the fact, that it's the only one of my exarchs I can actually find. The others seems to have wandered off somewhere.

It comes out at 1996 pts, I could drop 2 shuriken cannon platform and a guardian to give both serpents spirit stones. It might be worth it purely as an annoyance to anyone shooting at them, plus it'll force them to dedicate more shooting to them instead of shooting at the rest of my units.

Now psychic powers, guide and doom seems like decent choices for the Farseer, but I'm torn between protect/jinx and quicken/restrain on the Warlock. Conceal/reveal might even be worth some consideration.

*Edit 7/3-18*

AFter thinking about it and realising that the Shadow Spectres would fill a role covered by frankly most of the list, I threw them out and added a third Crimson Hunter and moved them into their own detachment for a bit extra CP. I also feel a bit more comfortable having 3 proper sources of AT in the list.
« Last Edit: March 7, 2018, 06:54:33 PM by Sarkrim »

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: 2000 point Biel-Tan tournament list
« Reply #9 on: March 7, 2018, 06:29:37 PM »
If you are looking for a few extra points, why not drop a dire avenger from each squad? 2 5 man squads leaves enough space for 2 hq's to hop in as well, which in turn reduces the number of drops.

As to warlock powers, doom + jinx is a major threat to any big thing you want dead. Slap it on a target and watch it melt. Plus, getting Protect off on something like the spears will help them immensly.
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Offline Sarkrim

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Re: 2000 point Biel-Tan tournament list
« Reply #10 on: March 7, 2018, 07:11:50 PM »
If you are looking for a few extra points, why not drop a dire avenger from each squad? 2 5 man squads leaves enough space for 2 hq's to hop in as well, which in turn reduces the number of drops.

As to warlock powers, doom + jinx is a major threat to any big thing you want dead. Slap it on a target and watch it melt. Plus, getting Protect off on something like the spears will help them immensly.

I think I got the list where I want it, at least for now and it's down to 8 drops - I had also forgotten to remove the Shadow Spectres from the updated list, leaving it massively over the point limit

The 3 characters jumps into the serpent with the banshees, maxing it out and the avengers goes into the other one. I might even upgrade the Warlock to a Spiritseer, got enough points leftover to do it and don't really have anything else I can spend the points on. It would also mean that an unlucky peril won't detonate the poor guy and it would mean a second full power smite. And with the Spirit stone on the Spiritstone, I'll be able to save a reroll each psychic phase on both psykers.

I think it'll end up being protect/jinx in the end as well, as it just makes sense and means I can make a unit go away when I need to, or save a unit.

In an average game the 2 serpents, vypers and 3 Crimson Hunters starts on the table, with guardians and spears in deep strike. It's costly in CP but will be worth it as I don't rely heavily forcing a psychic power through, and I suspect the remaining CP will be spent on either rerolls or the Biel-Tan stratagem to help with a charge on the spears.

If there are a minimum of threats against the spears they might start on the table, saving a few extra CP for later. But it'll be a decision I'll need to make at the start of each game.

So the list ends up looking like this:

Battalion

Autarch
Farseer
Spiritseer - Spirit Stone of Anath'lan

6 Dire Avengers, including exarch with 2 catapults
6 Dire Avengers, including exarch with 2 catapults
20 Guardians with 2 Shuriken Cannon platforms

9 Howling Banshees, including exarch with Mirrorswords

9 Shining Spears, including exarch with Star Lance
3 Vypers with 2 Shuriken Cannons

Wave Serpent with Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines, Star Engines, Twin Shuriken Cannon & Shuriken Cannon
Wave Serpent with Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines, Star Engines, Twin Shuriken Cannon & Shuriken Cannon

Airwing detachment

Crimson Hunter
Crimson Hunter
Crimson Hunter Exarch

As I said I'm quite happy with the army and the balance between speed, firepower and theme, on paper anyway. Now I just need to test it and see if I need to change things or if it holds up on the table as well. In theory I should be able to make any unit go away in any given turn, reality will probably end up being different but the potential for high damage is there and the third hunter adds the last bit of AT I felt was missing before.

*Update 19/3*

So after a test game, I've made some changes to the list. Sadly the banshees just didn't deliver enough pain on things to justify keeping them. The vypers were temporarily put back on the shelf, due to me being worried about not having enough damage against big targets, so with a bit of retooling of the list I managed to fit in 2 Fire Prisms.

The past few days I've been tinkering with the list again and decided to forget about the coming FAQ and the potential changes to certain units it could bring.

So i've ended ud with the following list, which will be tested on wednesday against the new T'au.

Battalion

Autarch
Farseer
Spiritseer - Spirit Stone of Anath'lan

6 Dire Avengers, including exarch with 2 catapults
6 Dire Avengers, including exarch with 2 catapults
20 Guardians with 2 Shuriken Cannon platforms

5 Shining Spears, including exarch with Star Lance

6 Dark Reapers, including exarch with Tempest Launcher
Fire Prism with Shuriken Cannon, Crystal Targeting Matrix and Spirit Stones
Fire Prism with Shuriken Cannon, Crystal Targeting Matrix and Spirit Stones

Wave Serpent with Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines, Star Engines, Twin Shuriken Cannon & Shuriken Cannon
Wave Serpent with Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines, Star Engines, Twin Shuriken Cannon & Shuriken Cannon

Airwing detachment

Crimson Hunter
Crimson Hunter
Crimson Hunter Exarch

If that is not enough to put a super heavy tank, daemon primarch or other nasty things in the ground on turn 1, I'll have to go back to the drawing board. I think the list is in a good place now, but who knows what that FAQ will do to it and what changes I'll have to make. But that's part of the fun isn't it?

Should add that the airwing detachment will be Alaitoc instead of Biel-Tan, as the hunter just didn't benefit from that trait in any way and Alaitoc just makes a whole lot more sense for them.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 07:35:54 PM by Sarkrim »

Offline SeekingOne

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Re: 2000 point Biel-Tan tournament list
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2018, 04:19:10 AM »
Hey Sarkrim, how did your test game go?

Also, what powers do you give your psykers? Particularly the Spiritseer - I'd be torn between Protect/Jinx and Quicken/Restrain.
I fight against Chaos and for Order, because it means fighting for Life against Death. There is no other battle truly worth fighting.

"If it's not for a tournament then play whatever it is that you like. Without the pressure of having to utterly destroy your opponent it opens up alot more opportunity to have fun." - Lazarus

Offline Sarkrim

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Re: 2000 point Biel-Tan tournament list
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2018, 07:01:07 AM »
It sadly got delayed due to unforeseen circumstances, my opponent couldn't make it. As for powers, guide/doom on the Farseer will be my go to choice I suspect but I am torn between protect and quicken. They both a whole lot of utility for that list, so it will most likely come down to what I'm facing, the mission and the deployment type/layout of the table.

The list might change drastically depending on what the FAQ coming next week does to eldar. But I'm hoping to be able to keep it mostly as it is now.

Next test game won't be until after easter though, but there will be updates as the list gets finalised and put through its paces against various things, including that dread zombie factory list, unless it gets nerfed as well.

*Update*

Due to the FAQ or lack thereof my choice of army for LGT is currently on ice. The uncertainty about what that FAQ could bring is just taking the fun out of building an army currently, at least for me.
« Last Edit: April 3, 2018, 07:57:00 PM by Sarkrim »

 


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