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Author Topic: 2k Tourney list for ITC in July  (Read 1034 times)

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Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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2k Tourney list for ITC in July
« on: March 10, 2018, 07:21:22 PM »
Looking at going to a 5 man team tourney mid July. Was looking at running Ulthwe but decided to instead jump on the Altioc Bandwagon.

Here is the tentative list. Critique greatly appreciated.


Quote
++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [1276pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

+ HQ +

Autarch [103pts]: 5: Mark of the Incomparable Hunter, Forceshield, Mandiblasters, Power sword, Reaper Launcher, Star Glaive, Warlord

Irillyth [160pts]

+ Troops +

Guardian Defenders [190pts]: 20x Guardian Defender
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Shuriken Cannon
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Shuriken Cannon

Rangers [60pts]: 5x Ranger

Rangers [60pts]: 5x Ranger

+ Elites +

Wraithguard [225pts]: D-scythe, 5x Wraithguard

+ Fast Attack +

Shining Spears [157pts]
. 4x Shining Spear: 4x Laser Lance, 4x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch: Star Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [154pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Vectored Engines

Wave Serpent [167pts]: Crystal Targeting Matrix, Spirit Stones, Twin Bright Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [720pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

+ HQ +

Farseer [100pts]: Guide, Doom, Shiftshroud of Alanssair, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Elites +

Shadow Spectres [165pts]
. 5x Shadow Spectre: 5x Prism Rifle, 5x Sunburst grenades

+ Heavy Support +

Dark Reapers [135pts]
. 4x Dark Reaper: 4x Reaper Launcher
. Dark Reaper Exarch: Reaper Launcher

Fire Prism [160pts]: Twin Shuriken Catapult

Fire Prism [160pts]: Twin Shuriken Catapult

++ Total: [1996pts] ++

Basic idea is Shadow Specters and Reapers start in the Serpent with the BL, while wraithguard go in the other. Farseer, Iilyith, and the 20 man guardian team will all DS.

Thoughts?
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline Blazinghand

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Re: 2k Tourney list for ITC in July
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2018, 09:46:44 PM »
Basic idea is Shadow Specters and Reapers start in the Serpent with the BL, while wraithguard go in the other. Farseer, Iilyith, and the 20 man guardian team will all DS.

Thoughts?

Although IA Index Xenos does not list the Shadow Spectres as having the Jump Pack keyword, they were changed to have it in the Errata/FAQ: https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/imperial_armour_index_xenos.pdf

As a result, they cannot ride in a Wave Serpent, since Wave Serpents cannot transport models with the Jump Pack keyword.
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Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: 2k Tourney list for ITC in July
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2018, 12:03:59 AM »
Good to know - may just have to DS them then if I feel I need to protect them.

What did you think of the rest of the list?
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline Blazinghand

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Re: 2k Tourney list for ITC in July
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2018, 04:46:49 AM »
Some thoughts overall

Autarch may not need the power sword since he has a power fist

guardians and rangers seem good

Not sure if Irillyth is actually good, especially compared to a Warlock or something.

Shining Spears seem good.

Wave Serpent loadouts seem fine.

Shadow Spectres may not actually be that great in terms of damage output, though they'll likely be hard-ish to hit

Dark Reaper Exarch should take a special weapon since he has good accuracy, AeML or Tempest are both good choices.

Fire Prisms seems like one might die and you'd lose linked fire. maybe take 3?

On the other hand, this is ITC. So let's talk ITC. Currently your list gives up 4 BGH points. Every opponent you play will pick BGH as a secondary, so you should be aware of that, and either adjust or be ready to play around it. Your list only gives up 2 Reaper points, so you're good on that end.
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Offline Sarkrim

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Re: 2k Tourney list for ITC in July
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2018, 05:42:34 AM »
Just to add about Irrylith, he doesn't actually have the character keyword in the index and the FAQ didn't address that issue, so he's likely to get blown off the table as the first thing. I'd replace him with a warlock or two and maybe add more spears or reapers. Or spend the leftover points on adding a 6th wraithguard.

Otherwise as Blazinghand said, the rest looks good. As for the Fire Prisms, you can just hide them out of line of sigh and sneak one of them around a corner when it's time to blown something big up with Linked Fire.

Offline Blazinghand

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Re: 2k Tourney list for ITC in July
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2018, 07:37:10 AM »
Just to add about Irrylith, he doesn't actually have the character keyword in the index and the FAQ didn't address that issue, so he's likely to get blown off the table as the first thing. I'd replace him with a warlock or two and maybe add more spears or reapers. Or spend the leftover points on adding a 6th wraithguard.

Otherwise as Blazinghand said, the rest looks good. As for the Fire Prisms, you can just hide them out of line of sigh and sneak one of them around a corner when it's time to blown something big up with Linked Fire.

Although Irrylith doesn't technically have the Character keyword, I'm sure he can talk to the TO beforehand and ask for the TO to rule that Irrylith has the Character keyword. But yeah, that's something to bear in mind. FW rules are quite inconsistent at times, and they forgot things like this. If you do keep him, make sure to check with the TO first before finalizing the list.
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Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: 2k Tourney list for ITC in July
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2018, 08:15:41 AM »
Thanks all for the insights. Good to know I am going to be giving up BGH - never played ITC before so that's not something I am used to thinking about

Changes I am thinking on the list:
Drop Irillyth
Drop the Power sword on the Autuarch (I always forget bout that star glaive)
Add Farseer with Fortune and Executioner
Add Warlock with Protect/Jinx
Add an addition Shinning Spear

Doing this puts me to 1998 pts - so not enough to upgrade the reaper exarch gun.

Question: I am sinking 167 pts into a transport to effectively hide the reapers turn 1, and then shoot from long range with two BL's. With a 5 man group of them, could I hide them well enough turn 1 to typically not need the transport? Or might it even be worth it if necessary to DS them.


Edit:
Played around with dropping the second Serpent - here is what I came up with


Quote
++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [918pts] ++

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

+ HQ +

Autarch [99pts]: Mark of the Incomparable Hunter, Forceshield, Mandiblasters, Reaper Launcher, Shuriken Pistol, Star Glaive, Warlord

Warlock [35pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Guardian Defenders [190pts]: 20x Guardian Defender
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Shuriken Cannon
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Shuriken Cannon

Rangers [60pts]: 5x Ranger

Rangers [60pts]: 5x Ranger

+ Elites +

Wraithguard [225pts]: D-scythe, 5x Wraithguard

+ Fast Attack +

Shining Spears [95pts]
. 2x Shining Spear: 2x Laser Lance, 2x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch: Star Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [154pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Vectored Engines

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [1080pts] ++

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

+ HQ +

Farseer [105pts]: Fortune, Executioner, Shiftshroud of Alanssair, Shuriken Pistol, Singing Spear

+ Elites +

Shadow Spectres [165pts]
. 5x Shadow Spectre: 5x Prism Rifle, 5x Sunburst grenades (INDEX)

+ Heavy Support +

Dark Reapers [140pts]
. 4x Dark Reaper: 4x Reaper Launcher
. Dark Reaper Exarch: Tempest Launcher

Fire Prism [160pts]: Twin Shuriken Catapult

Fire Prism [160pts]: Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Flyer +

Crimson Hunter Exarch [175pts]: Two Bright Lances

Crimson Hunter Exarch [175pts]: Two Bright Lances

++ Total: [1998pts] ++
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 08:34:22 AM by faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run) »
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline Cavalier

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Re: 2k Tourney list for ITC in July
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2018, 09:57:32 AM »
I dig the final list Faitherun. I've got an article coming out on FLG about the value of an Alaitoc Crimson Hunter Exarch (alongside the Reapers) so I'm a big fan. I love the double Prisms too. My only thing is I'd love to see those Shining Spears go up in numbers if you have the models for it. I'd even drop a Fire Prism to do it. They hit so hard... but at only 3 models they will be an obvious target as they come screaming in without any other melee units to protect them. I'd get them up to 5 or 6 if possible.

Really dig the list man. It should look great on the table too. Love it!
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Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: 2k Tourney list for ITC in July
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2018, 11:53:02 AM »
Yeah, I had to drop the spears down in order to fit the dual Crimson Hunters in...

Dropping the 2nd fire prisim - then I can't link the shots, which is what I really want it for...

I could flip the squad sizes on the Shadow Specters and the Spears - 3 specters and 5 spears. Or I could drop the Specters all together. Not sure how good they are as just a 3 man team, and dropping them would give me 95 pts to play with.

Third idea on list dropping the specters all together


Quote
++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [51 PL, 987pts] ++

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

+ HQ +

Autarch [106pts]: Mark of the Incomparable Hunter, Forceshield, Lasblaster, Mandiblasters, Reaper Launcher, Shuriken Pistol, Star Glaive, Warlord

Warlock [35pts]: Protect/Jinx, Shuriken Pistol, Warlord, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Guardian Defenders [190pts]: 20x Guardian Defender
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Shuriken Cannon
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Shuriken Cannon

Rangers [60pts]: 5x Ranger

Rangers [60pts]: 5x Ranger

+ Elites +

Wraithguard [225pts]: D-scythe, 5x Wraithguard

+ Fast Attack +

Shining Spears [157pts]
. 4x Shining Spear: 4x Laser Lance, 4x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch: Star Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [154pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Vectored Engines

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [55 PL, 1013pts] ++

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

+ HQ +

Autarch Skyrunner [125pts]: Banshee Mask, Fusion Gun, Laser Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Farseer [105pts]: Fortune, Executioner, Shiftshroud of Alanssair, Shuriken Pistol, Singing Spear

+ Heavy Support +

Dark Reapers [113pts]
. 3x Dark Reaper: 3x Reaper Launcher
. Dark Reaper Exarch: Tempest Launcher

Fire Prism [160pts]: Twin Shuriken Catapult

Fire Prism [160pts]: Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Flyer +

Crimson Hunter Exarch [175pts]: Two Bright Lances

Crimson Hunter Exarch [175pts]: Two Bright Lances

++ Total: [2000pts] ++

Do you think the solitary wave serpent filled with all that death and mayhem won't be to large a target? I would try and blow that thing first every single time...
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 07:41:45 PM by faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run) »
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline Partninja

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Re: 2k Tourney list for ITC in July
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2018, 12:17:51 PM »
IMO the Spectres bring down the list. You keep taking points away from the units that matter more (Reapers and Spears). With only one Serpent moving forward, the Crimson Hunters being so hard to hit, and the Prisms hiding in the back, that serpent will be an early target.

Speaking tourney wise, I'd drop the wraithguard and the Spectres for more shining spears and reapers.

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: 2k Tourney list for ITC in July
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2018, 07:47:38 PM »
Got of few test games in. While the Wraithguard are good - I think they are not ITC level. With that in mind, I have a slight adjustment on the list. Dropped them and the Serpent to boost the reapers (which I still can't find to purchase) and take a detachment of Sain-Hamm.

Quote
++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [444pts] ++

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

+ HQ +

Autarch [99pts]: 5: Mark of the Incomparable Hunter, Forceshield, Mandiblasters, Reaper Launcher, Shuriken Pistol, Star Glaive, Warlord

Warlock [35pts]: 1. Conceal/Reveal, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Guardian Defenders [190pts]: 20x Guardian Defender
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Shuriken Cannon
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Shuriken Cannon

Rangers [60pts]: 5x Ranger

Rangers [60pts]: 5x Ranger

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [1065pts] ++

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

+ HQ +

Farseer [100pts]: 3. Fortune, 4. Executioner, Shiftshroud of Alanssair, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Heavy Support +

Dark Reapers [275pts]
. 9x Dark Reaper: 9x Reaper Launcher
. Dark Reaper Exarch: Tempest Launcher

Fire Prism [170pts]: Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Fire Prism [170pts]: Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Flyer +

Crimson Hunter Exarch [175pts]: Two Bright Lances

Crimson Hunter Exarch [175pts]: Two Bright Lances

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [490pts] ++

Craftworld Attribute: Saim-Hann: Wild Host

+ HQ +

Autarch Skyrunner [134pts]: Banshee Mask, Fusion Gun, Fusion Pistol, Laser Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Fast Attack +

Shining Spears [188pts]
. 5x Shining Spear: 5x Laser Lance, 5x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch: Star Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Windriders [84pts]
. 3x Windrider - Scatter Laser: 3x Scatter Laser

Windriders [84pts]
. 3x Windrider - Scatter Laser: 3x Scatter Laser

++ Total: [1999pts] ++

Edit: Fixed point cost on Windriders - thanks Blazinghand
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 07:22:35 PM by faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run) »
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline SeekingOne

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Re: 2k Tourney list for ITC in July
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2018, 04:20:41 PM »
The latest list looks great.

My only comment would be about psy powers:
1. Farseer should definitely have Doom, this power is by far the best in our arsenal regardless of opponent or situation.
2. Conceal/Reveal has really limited usability. If you have just one warlock - he should have either Protect or Quicken for Shining spears. Keep him near the Farseer and use the Seer Council stratagem - it is invaluable for our powers that need 7+ to cast.
I fight against Chaos and for Order, because it means fighting for Life against Death. There is no other battle truly worth fighting.

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Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: 2k Tourney list for ITC in July
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2018, 11:16:46 PM »
Those powers were ones I was messing about with and forgot to change back. I am hoping to get some more test games in this week and see how this performs..... Thanks all for the feedback thus far
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline Blazinghand

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Re: 2k Tourney list for ITC in July
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2018, 05:31:08 PM »
Some Thoughts:

You’re giving up 3 points on The Reaper currently with your 20-elf Guardian squad and your 10-elf Dark Reaper squad. These are both already priority targets for your opponent, making it somewhat likely they score ITC points off this. Consider the value of either dropping 1 Dark Reaper, or modifying your Guardian squad to be 18 + Platform instead of 20 + 2 Platform. This will reduce the score from The Reaper down to 2, meaning your opponents won’t take it.

You’re giving up 4 points on BGH due to the double Fire Prism and 2 CH Exarchs. I actually consider these to be pretty good units, so it might be worth giving up those points, particularly in the CH Exarchs that are quite hard to shoot down for most armies. Just bear in mind that every opponent you fight will pick BGH and will gun for your vehicles.

I think you have the points wrong on this Windriders squad -


Windriders [484pts]
. 3x Windrider - Scatter Laser: 3x Scatter Laser”

Reaper Launcher Autarch, Warlock, Rangers, looking good. Farseer might be able to make use of Doom. If you’re concerned about a unit like Dark Reapers or Guardians, something like Protect is a better choice, either combined with Celestial Shield on the Guardians for 3++, or to make your Dark Reapers in cover very hard.

Farseer Skyrunner looks solid.

I like the Shining Spears unit.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2018, 06:21:42 AM by Blazinghand »
Quote from: Howard Zinn
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Offline SeekingOne

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Re: 2k Tourney list for ITC in July
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2018, 04:17:59 AM »
What are those "The Reaper" points?
I fight against Chaos and for Order, because it means fighting for Life against Death. There is no other battle truly worth fighting.

"If it's not for a tournament then play whatever it is that you like. Without the pressure of having to utterly destroy your opponent it opens up alot more opportunity to have fun." - Lazarus

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: 2k Tourney list for ITC in July
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2018, 01:24:04 PM »
Interesting - so if I drop a single dark reaper, I can probably fit another warlock in, do you think with just one 20 man blob an opponent would still choose the reaper? That is only 2 points max, albeit probably 2  guaranteed points...

I absolutely love Fire Prisms, so will probably keep those, especially as FW is allowed and I may actually find a chance for the lance shots..

What are those "The Reaper" points?
It's from the ITC missions, take a look over theses
8th ed Mission Draft V1.9 - Google Docs

Basically, you chose secondary objectives at the start of each game. One of them is the reaper, and gives you points for killing units of 10+ (1 pt) or of 20+ (2 pts).
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline SeekingOne

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Re: 2k Tourney list for ITC in July
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2018, 04:15:20 AM »
Basically, you chose secondary objectives at the start of each game. One of them is the reaper, and gives you points for killing units of 10+ (1 pt) or of 20+ (2 pts).
Ah, so by taking a unit of 9 instead of 10 you're preventing your opponent from getting extra points? Cool move :)
I fight against Chaos and for Order, because it means fighting for Life against Death. There is no other battle truly worth fighting.

"If it's not for a tournament then play whatever it is that you like. Without the pressure of having to utterly destroy your opponent it opens up alot more opportunity to have fun." - Lazarus

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Re: 2k Tourney list for ITC in July
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2018, 06:24:03 AM »
Interesting - so if I drop a single dark reaper, I can probably fit another warlock in, do you think with just one 20 man blob an opponent would still choose the reaper? That is only 2 points max, albeit probably 2  guaranteed points...

If he still picks The Reaper with only 2 points to earn, that's not so bad. At that point, he's forgoing half of his points on that secondary, which is good news for you.
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Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: 2k Tourney list for ITC in July
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2018, 08:22:06 AM »
Got a game in yesterday, and lost hard. Final score was 24 to 12. Was vs a good friend of mine who is teaming up with me at the event - he runs salamanders with scions and assasins

My opponent's list:
Salamander Battalion
Captain with combi melta and power sword
Captain on bike, salamander mantle, thunder hammer

Scout squad x2
Tac squad with melta and combi melta
Razorback

Thunderfire cannon
Relic Levithan dread

Fire Raptor

Scion Battalion
Tempestor prime, warlord, Aquila's relic (the set up to get CP back on both yours and your opponent's stratagems)
Tempestor prime

2x hot shot scions
plasma scions


Imperium Vanguard
Eisenhorn (terrify and Dominate)
Chenoybell (His special deamonhost - not sure on the name)

Vindicare
Culluxes
Callidus



I should have taken pictures, but alas I did not. We ended up doing the hammer and anvil deployment on mission 3 (4 objectives, on in each deployment zone and two in the wings of the middle of the field).Terrain was lots of LOS blocking pieces - basically a city ruin. One piece in the center of the board was the bane of my army, and I failed to account for it well.

I choose Recon, Behind enemy lines, and Death by a thousand cuts as my secondaries. In total, I ended up getting Recon and Behind enemy lines once, and death by a thousand cuts 3 times.... ouch. Poor choices on my part I think...

My opponent took Headhunter, Big game hunter, and kingslayer, which he choose to target my autuarch on bike with. He got 3 pts from headhunter, kingslayer, and head hunter each... I had tweaked my list a little and ended up bringing two warlocks, a spirit seer, a farseer, my autuarch on foot and on bike...

I am not going to do a full battle report, but just list some thoughts and observations

1) I can not get windwiders to work for me. I don't know what I am doing wrong, but my dice simply hate me with them or something... in my last three games they have killed a single model. Going after scouts, scions and the like.

2) I got first turn, which sucked. I would easily go in and hold three objectives on my turn, then lose two of them on my opponents so he would get the bonus point for holding more objectives.. I need to figure how to better mitigate this. Perhaps focus instead on holding two and denying one?

3) I put a lot of eggs into my alpha strike basket, and it wiffed hard. Between both crimson hunters I killed a single model, the razor back. Shinning spears failed to kill off the two scout squads, with 2 of his 10 living, and windrieders did nothing but give up points. They did help me get my single recon point....

4) Fire prisms are amazing. I loved having both of them. Probably MVP of the game, and with only one exposed, it was easy to lightning reflex it and come out relatively unscathed. Fire raptor only managed to get 3 wounds on it, and they nuked whatever they looked at.


I am thinking of dropping my windriders all together, reducing the number of characters I have (Seriously, the vindicare was having a field day), and seeing what I can get in with those points. As you can see, Forgeworld is allowed but I really can't think of anything that would make sense / be points effective.

 
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

 


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