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Author Topic: Rerolls with bonuses  (Read 802 times)

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Offline bca11

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Rerolls with bonuses
« on: February 17, 2018, 12:08:04 AM »
Suppose I have a BS3+ model. I know if I target something that is -1 to hit while simultaneously having an ability that says to reroll misses, I can't reroll 3's. Even though they will miss after the -1, I have to reroll before the modifier.

My question is this - does it apply in reverse? Suppose I have a helldrake and give it prescience, then pop the strategem that very specifically says to reroll misses. Does this mean that I am required to reroll a 2 (a raw miss) even though prescience will later modify it to hit? Do I have the option to decided not to reroll and then let it become a 3?

Thanks.

Offline Fenris

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Re: Rerolls with bonuses
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2018, 06:06:42 AM »
No, that would open up a whole can of worms.

If you rolled a '3' your shot hit where you aimed, problem is the target wasn't there because of the -1.
Even if you could aim again (re-roll) you wouldn't even try, because you know you already hit where you aimed.

Even if you are allowed you to re-roll misses, those '3's are not considered misses regardless of re-roll source, until the modifier -1 has been applied which is always done after re-rolls.

It would be as bad as saying 3*2+1 = 9 and not 7. Sure 3*(2+1) = 9
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Offline Blazinghand

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Re: Rerolls with bonuses
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2018, 06:27:11 AM »
When attacking with BS3+, +1 to hit, and you roll a 2:

A '2' is an unified unmodified Miss. The question here is whether the stratagem you're using states that you must reroll misses or that you may reroll misses. If it is the former then you must reroll the 2, as it is a miss. If it is the latter, you may (and likely should) elect not to reroll it.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 06:28:40 AM by Blazinghand »
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Offline bca11

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Re: Rerolls with bonuses
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2018, 01:16:31 PM »
Daemonforge (pg 96 of the Thousand Sons codex) says verbatim "reroll failed hit and wound rolls).

I guess that would technically mean I'd need to reroll 2's to hit, and if I ended up with a positive wound modifier from some source, I'd have to reroll similarly. I suppose this would mean it's wasteful to use prescience and this stratagem on the same unit.

Correct?

Offline Blazinghand

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Re: Rerolls with bonuses
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2018, 01:18:01 AM »
Daemonforge (pg 96 of the Thousand Sons codex) says verbatim "reroll failed hit and wound rolls).

I guess that would technically mean I'd need to reroll 2's to hit, and if I ended up with a positive wound modifier from some source, I'd have to reroll similarly. I suppose this would mean it's wasteful to use prescience and this stratagem on the same unit.

Correct?

You haven't quoted the relevant part, which is likely the first half of that sentence. What matters is whether it can or must reroll failures. If rerolling failures is optional then you can choose not to reroll the two. If it is compulsory then you must reroll the two.

For example the Eldar power Guide says you can re-roll, rather than that you must, therefore it does not compulsory.
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Offline bca11

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Re: Rerolls with bonuses
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2018, 07:35:27 AM »
"Use this stratagem in your shooting or fight phase when a Thousand Sons Daemon Vehicle is chosen to attack. Re-roll failed hit and wound rolls for that model until the end of the phase."

Offline Blazinghand

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Re: Rerolls with bonuses
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2018, 08:19:06 AM »
"Use this stratagem in your shooting or fight phase when a Thousand Sons Daemon Vehicle is chosen to attack. Re-roll failed hit and wound rolls for that model until the end of the phase."

Ah, it's in the imperative. If so, then you are compelled to re-roll ALL failed hit and wound rolls, sadly, so that includes the 2, even if that 2 will ultimately be modified to a hit :(
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