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Author Topic: Fire Prism Firing Modes and Loadout  (Read 2047 times)

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Offline bca11

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Fire Prism Firing Modes and Loadout
« on: January 24, 2018, 05:23:03 PM »
I just bought a fire prism and will soon be unleashing linked-fire destruction upon my foes. As I'm now taking my first serious look at the 8th edition rules for it, I can't help but think, what's the point of the lance mode?

Against most vehicles, even lords of war, it wouldn't affect wound roll, and if it has an invulnerable save or is out in the open, it won't affect the save either. Wouldn't I be better off just going with the larger number of shots and higher average wound output?

Is there any situation where the lance mode might be advantageous?

As far as equipment goes, how do you normally equip yours? I'm leaning toward CTM and spirit stones, as they have obvious utility, but not so much the engine upgrades. I'm also leaning toward taking the shuriken canon over the twin catapults. I can see it being a useful way to kill that last stubborn member of a squad that's not worth shooting with the main gun.

Thanks.

Online Blazinghand

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Re: Fire Prism Firing Modes and Loadout
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2018, 05:40:30 PM »
Focused mode is better than Lance against just about everything. Lance is better against Wave Serpents due to the way Serpent Shield works.

I've found that CTM is a solid choice, especially since it's cheap and it's not uncommon to have a couple points left over. I play Ulthw so I have not considered Spirit Stones. Vectored Engines and Star Engines are anti-synergy with your gun so I recommend against it.

I find it to be reasonably common that when I take a Shuriken Cannon, the Fire Prism doesn't really get a chance to use it. Oftentimes enemies will be far away, and when they get close the Fire Prism only gets to shoot the Shuriken Cannon once, if that, before being destroyed. Therefore I consider upgrading the underslung gun to a Shuriken Cannon to be pretty low priority.
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Offline Saim-Dann

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Re: Fire Prism Firing Modes and Loadout
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2018, 05:58:28 PM »
G'day bca11!
The FP on its own isn't very effective so we're guided too buy more of them for the linking up power play. It's a smart marketing plan. In the next edition or two, the rule will change and everyone will have a fleet of FP's on the shelf, collecting dust.

Not ranting here, mate. It's a clever play and would do it myself if I was in the business... Be well!

Offline Fenris

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Re: Fire Prism Firing Modes and Loadout
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2018, 06:58:34 PM »
Against light vehicles or artillery (T6 W6+) the lance mode is best if not using linked fire, or against T10+ targets.
It's also some value in using a command re-roll on the damage, which is better than re-rolling the number of shots in the dispersed mode, due to you already know the shot pierced two defenses.
I still think the fire prisms are best used in really big battles, where you can have the redundancy of 3-5 prisms and will regularly be facing W18+ stuff.

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Offline bca11

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Re: Fire Prism Firing Modes and Loadout
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2018, 07:06:02 PM »
I still think the fire prisms are best used in really big battles, where you can have the redundancy of 3-5 prisms and will regularly be facing W18+ stuff.

I get what youre saying there, but if I were going to spend that much money, Id probably just get a scorpion to run alongside my cobra for my bigger battles.

I think I can get good mileage out of 2 fire prisms supported by a dark reaper fire base in most tournaments.

Online Blazinghand

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Re: Fire Prism Firing Modes and Loadout
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2018, 07:49:35 PM »
Against light vehicles or artillery (T6 W6+) the lance mode is best if not using linked fire, or against T10+ targets.
It's also some value in using a command re-roll on the damage, which is better than re-rolling the number of shots in the dispersed mode, due to you already know the shot pierced two defenses.
I still think the fire prisms are best used in really big battles, where you can have the redundancy of 3-5 prisms and will regularly be facing W18+ stuff.

Oh yeah that's true, T6 is where it's at for Lance, I totally forgot about that.

Against a vehicle with T6, W6, 3+ Save with no Linked Fire:
Focused Mode: 4 shots -> 8/3 hits -> 16/9 wounds before saves -> 16/9 wounds after saves, -> 32/9 damage, 3.55
Lance mode: 2 shots -> 4/3 hits -> 10/9 wounds before saves -> 10/9 wounds after saves ->  35/9 damage, 3.88

Against T7, Focused is better though.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 02:12:55 PM by Blazinghand »
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Offline magenb

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Re: Fire Prism Firing Modes and Loadout
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2018, 05:56:40 AM »
It's very average by itself, even if it never needs to move. To be fair most tanks need to be run in pairs these days any way. The switching fire modes is nice, especially for fixed list events, it is a nice option to have, but I would play test it with your friends, proxy a wave or something before you drop $$ on it. There is a lot of hype around them, I found them under whelming.




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Re: Fire Prism Firing Modes and Loadout
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2018, 02:23:50 PM »
Fire Prism being "worth it" is a tricky proposition because it's not just about firepower. For 160 points against T7 3+, a Fire Prism in Focused Mode does: 4 shots -> 8/3 hits -> 16/9 wounds before saves -> 16/9 wounds after saves, -> 32/9 damage, 3.55

For a similar price, you could get 6 Dark Reapers: 6 shots ->4 hits -> 8/3 wounds -> 16/9 wounds after saves ->16/3 damage, 5.33

So, for the same cost, Dark Reapers deal about 50% more damage against vehicles, which seems hugely better. What advantages to Fire Prisms have?

1) Durability. A Fire Prism has about 1.5x-1.75x the wounds of 6 Dark Reapers, depending on how the Dark Reapers are broken up into squads. Also, a Fire Prism has much more Toughness than Dark Reapers.
3) Mobility and positional flexibility. A Fire Prism is not inconvenienced by chargers due to FLY. A Fire Prism can move fast and sacrifice half its shots, or Advance and sacrifice them all. Unlike Dark Reapers, it can't make small positional adjustments without losing accuracy, sadly.
4) Shooting Flexibility.A Fire Prism has more range. Its gun is also better against swarms than Dark Reapers, though a Dark Reaper unit with a Tempest Launcher can mostly match a Fire Prism for this.
5) Linked Fire. A Fire Prism can fire indirectly or with more power using Linked Fire

So, how does a Fire Prism stand up with Linked Fire? Focused mode: 4 shots -> 3.55 hits -> 3.16 wounds before saves ->3.16 wounds after saves, -> 6.32 damage

So, spending a CP can bring a group of Fire Prisms just beyond level of effectiveness of a Dark Reaper unit at tank-hunting. However, this costs CP, and requires everyone shoot the same target. On top of that, Linked Fire has anti-synergy with some Eldar buffs like Doom and The Path of Command, where you're already potentially getting a bonus.

Seems valid and different from Dark Reapers.
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Offline magenb

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Re: Fire Prism Firing Modes and Loadout
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2018, 04:41:33 PM »
1) Durability. A Fire Prism has about 1.5x-1.75x the wounds of 6 Dark Reapers, depending on how the Dark Reapers are broken up into squads. Also, a Fire Prism has much more Toughness than Dark Reapers.

This gets real messy real quick in 8th ed thanks to multiple damage. A FirePrism on average takes about 10 Lascannon shots to kill, assuming 3.5 damage, with a min of 2 extremely lucky shots. 10 shots kills 4.6 reapers assuming you left them in the open, those 2 super lucky shots still only kills two.

On the flip side, it's what about 160 bolter shots to kill a FP and about 80 to clear the DR's out of cover.


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Re: Fire Prism Firing Modes and Loadout
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2018, 08:37:39 PM »
1) Durability. A Fire Prism has about 1.5x-1.75x the wounds of 6 Dark Reapers, depending on how the Dark Reapers are broken up into squads. Also, a Fire Prism has much more Toughness than Dark Reapers.

This gets real messy real quick in 8th ed thanks to multiple damage. A FirePrism on average takes about 10 Lascannon shots to kill, assuming 3.5 damage, with a min of 2 extremely lucky shots. 10 shots kills 4.6 reapers assuming you left them in the open, those 2 super lucky shots still only kills two.

On the flip side, it's what about 160 bolter shots to kill a FP and about 80 to clear the DR's out of cover.

It's true that multi-damage weapons with few shots will do better against tanks than against infantry. If you were running an army composed almost entirely of infantry, a Fire Prism would actually be a bad addition, defensively, since you're finally giving your opponents a cost-effective target for lascannons. By the same token, if you run a bunch of vehicles and no infantry (or all infantry inside transports), a squad of Dark Reapers will attract all of the enemy's ranged anti-infantry firepower, since they'd rather be shooting their assault cannons at Dark Reapers than having their shots glance off the hulls of Wave Serpents.
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Offline Dread

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Re: Fire Prism Firing Modes and Loadout
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2018, 01:27:02 AM »
My suggestion would be go with your gut, that's what I do. I usually field 2 with shur cans and CTM. I play mostly Saim-Hann so spirit stones. The multiple fire modes allows us to be able to deal out as much as we take. The nice thing about wounds instead of hull points. If they want you dead, they'll waste their turn shooting at them which keeps the rest of your army not the center and by leaving them alone, they get to go to town on the opposing army. Hope this helps
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