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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Chaos Daemons are next
« on: December 28, 2017, 01:54:51 PM »
Faction Focus: Chaos Daemons - Warhammer Community

The Tzeentch power is somewhat interesting.
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Offline Irisado

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Re: Chaos Daemons are next
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2017, 02:28:35 PM »
It's certainly different that's for sure.  Typically random, as GW seems to like to make most Tzeentch related bonuses or powers.  I guess that it's more imaginative than a -1 to hit penalty, but I do wonder how much more randomness Tzeentch players can take.  Maybe they're all just used to it?
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Re: Chaos Daemons are next
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2017, 05:03:12 PM »
It's certainly different that's for sure.  Typically random, as GW seems to like to make most Tzeentch related bonuses or powers.  I guess that it's more imaginative than a -1 to hit penalty, but I do wonder how much more randomness Tzeentch players can take.  Maybe they're all just used to it?

It's a really powerful ability, and tzeentch already has plenty of access to -1 to hit. These two abilities combined could be crippling for their opponents.

This is also the only random ability tzeentch has.

I'm hoping they do something to fix character spam and Brimstone horrors in chaos armies. The points increase of maelific lords helped, but it's still pretty bad.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 05:17:20 PM by Killersquid »
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Chaos Daemons are next
« Reply #3 on: January 2, 2018, 02:57:09 PM »
Beginning with Khorne.
Faction Focus: Daemons of Khorne - Warhammer Community

Not too many surprises.
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Re: Chaos Daemons are next
« Reply #4 on: January 2, 2018, 04:31:29 PM »
I hope they do something to fix the skull cannon,and let the bloodthirsters do more damage against larger units. Both units are the weaker parts of the Khorne list ATM.  Skull cannons are basically unplayable.
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Offline Irisado

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Re: Chaos Daemons are next
« Reply #5 on: January 2, 2018, 04:36:01 PM »
The Skullreaver looks promising in terms of boosting the Bloodthirster.  This, combined with all the warlord traits seems as though it might be good enough to me to make the Bloodthirster a more effective proposition at least.
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Re: Chaos Daemons are next
« Reply #6 on: January 2, 2018, 06:38:54 PM »
The Skullreaver looks promising in terms of boosting the Bloodthirster.  This, combined with all the warlord traits seems as though it might be good enough to me to make the Bloodthirster a more effective proposition at least.

Not really. He needs a way to have more attacks (like Mortarian, or Knights), or have damage carry over from model to model. They are already S10 with d6 damage in melee with the basic axe they have. The trouble is they don't have enough attacks to handle units with more than 5 models in them, and most of the time the damage is wasted. The relic is actually worse than the basic weapon the bloodthirster has (less strength), and hitting and wounding is not really an issue when you need 2's for both.
« Last Edit: January 2, 2018, 06:41:59 PM by Killersquid »
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Chaos Daemons are next
« Reply #7 on: January 3, 2018, 11:40:15 AM »
Tzeentch time. Said to be a little unpredictable.
Faction Focus: Tzeentch Daemons - Warhammer Community
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Chaos Daemons are next
« Reply #8 on: January 3, 2018, 12:28:32 PM »
Tzeentch time. Said to be a little unpredictable.
Faction Focus: Tzeentch Daemons - Warhammer Community

So the Locus of Trickery only works in the Fight Phase? LAME. It isn't like Horrors are winning combats ever anyway. Nice for Screamers and LoChange, but those two units have always been good.

The Matched Play caveat against using psychic powers twice (and the new nerfs to Smite) kinda kick Tzeentch in the teeth. Like, if I want to use Flickering Fire, I can only use it once on one group of Horrors? And then, what, they get to shoot like Guardsmen with *bolters* instead of guardsmen with lasguns? Color me unimpressed.

I guess what I'm saying is, without being able to cast Smite with any kind of reliability and having to pay points for the ability to Split, WTF is even the point of Pink Horrors anymore? They don't do anything well and cost way too much.

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Re: Chaos Daemons are next
« Reply #9 on: January 3, 2018, 03:30:36 PM »
Smite spam needed to be corrected though, as it ruins the game. I do agree that tzeentch needs to have more legs then just vessels to cast smite.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Chaos Daemons are next
« Reply #10 on: January 4, 2018, 09:00:25 AM »
Smite spam needed to be corrected though, as it ruins the game. I do agree that tzeentch needs to have more legs then just vessels to cast smite.

Yeah, I totally get that--I don't like the idea of Tzeentch being only good for Smite, either. Hell, I've thought the whole "all tzeentch does is shoot" nonsense has been stupid for ages and ages.

But, look, if you won't give them guns (5th Edition) and you won't let them spam psychic powers (6th/7th Edition) and you insist on making them suck in assault, then WTF are we even doing here? A +1 invul? Gimmie a break.

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Re: Chaos Daemons are next
« Reply #11 on: January 4, 2018, 10:10:18 AM »
Tzeentch is the shooting/ magic god. Their units should be like that. It's always been the case where all the gods are specialized, and taking a pure army of a god forfeits the advantages of the others.

Nurgle is hard to kill, but is slow and can't do a lot of damage

Slaabesh is fast, but fragile

Khorne is great in melee, but has no magic support and is also not super tough

Tzeentch is resilient (in different ways then nurgle, shoots and casts magic.

I don't think tzeentch should have combat monsters, as that takes away from Khorne.

I think it'd be good to wait for the codex to come out, as strategems, rules and points changes can make a massive difference. For example, if splitting doesn't cost points, it'd make pink horrors very valuable.
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Re: Chaos Daemons are next
« Reply #12 on: January 4, 2018, 11:19:20 AM »
My chat group ran into these series of leaks. Based on the precedent so far on these sort of things, this is likely all legit information.

This was posted in the group a few days ago. Lines up with the official gw parts
Posts on their blog. 

Quote
Breaking leaks from Codex: Daemons from someone who claims to have gotten an early copy:

Only Belakor has Dark Hereticus.

Infernal Gaze.
Death Hex.
Gift of Chaos.

We get a deepstrike strategem.

1 CP for 8 PL and below
2 Cp for 9 PL and above.
no other restrictions.

---

Brimstone horrors are 6++, blues are 5++, pinks are 4++.
Changeling lost -1 to hit for 6+++ FNP.

No changes known to kairos. Most points remain the same but there are some minor changes up and down. LOC/Kairos/plague dropes dropped.

Flamers are 12" range now
Exalted are 3 shots instead of D3.
Anything with screamers lost slashing talon but their attacks became Lamprey bite.
Eg. 2 slashing attacks 1 bite? now 3 bites.

Most of the powers are really good imo , personally love nurgle the most.
Strategem wise:
2CP Tz Strat. pick a char, 6" aura of reroll psychic test.
1CP Khorne. pick a banner, that unit charges 3D6 instead of 2D6.
1CP Slaanesh. pick slaanesh daemon unit, all units within 3inch of that -1Attack for that phase.
1CP Nurgle. pick a unit with an icon before battle. during 1 fight phase. dmg characteristtics of a plaguesword carried by that unit increased to 2

So for 3 CP, you can deepstrike a bloodthirster or for 4 CP a max unit of bloodletters , charge them 3D6" rerollable. For all the khorne users.

Insensate Rage BT have two attack profiles now. Second (new) S:U -2 1 dmg , make 2 hit roll instead of 1 if use this attack.

All BTs get a rule that for each unmodded hit roll of 6, they score a 2nd free hit.

Daemons are still 5++.

Beast of Nurgle are 5 Wounds now , and if you try to Fall Back from them (1"), on a 4+, you do a MW.

Relics:
Khorne: (Mons only) - 4++ Deny 1 power in each enemy psychic phase.
Khorne: 1 model. Each time you make wound roll of 6+ fr friendly khorne daemon unit within 6" of bearer, can make another free attack.

Tz: 1 additional TZ power
Tz: +1 to smite cast

Nurgle: everytime bearer kills a model in fight phase while within 7' of a plaguebearer unit , on a 4+, add a PB to that unit.
Slaanesh: 1x per game, start of phase, select enemy char within 12" roll 3d6, if exceed enemy char ld, it cannot do anything, and its abilities dont affect anything.
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Chaos Daemons are next
« Reply #13 on: January 4, 2018, 12:56:14 PM »
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Chaos Daemons are next
« Reply #14 on: January 4, 2018, 01:52:46 PM »
Tzeentch is the shooting/ magic god. Their units should be like that. It's always been the case where all the gods are specialized, and taking a pure army of a god forfeits the advantages of the others.

The grand irony of Tzeentch being the "shooting" god is that their shooting sucks and has sucked for a long, long time. In 7th you could weight the psychic phase to make it work reasonably well (so long as nobody took too many tanks), but pretty much never has Tzeentch's shooting prowess held a candle to any other shooting army in the game (with the exception of Smite Spam, I suppose). With the singular exception of 7th Edition, their psychic power has sucked pretty bad, too. Summoning was great (6th/7th), of course, but otherwise? Blech.

I want GW to make up their minds, is all. If you insist on making them "just shooting and magic" you need to give them actually useful guns and actually useful psychic powers. As it stands they don't have either, and the rumors don't look as though they're going to get them. A re-roll to a psychic test for an underwhelming power or a +1 str to a lasgun shot is not impressive.

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Re: Chaos Daemons are next
« Reply #15 on: January 4, 2018, 02:27:31 PM »
I don't disagree with you. But I think it's worth waiting for the codex to see what's going to happen, then basing everything off teasers.

Points cost makes a huge difference. Swooping hawks are probably the best shooting unit in the eldar codex, and it's not because of their gun, it's because of the points per shot.
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Chaos Daemons are next
« Reply #16 on: January 5, 2018, 12:46:06 PM »
Quote from: @TracyAuGoGO
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