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Offline admironheart

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Eldar Brigades
« on: December 24, 2017, 03:33:56 PM »
Has anyone found much luck with a Brigade detachment?

Everytime I try I end up with some 'tax' units or way too many drops to be comfortable with.

I found one 6 MSU ranger brigade with banshees, hawks, fire prisms and reapers that someond made.

Any other type that would be competitive?
"Battles are decided by slaughter and maneuver.  The greater the general, the more he contributes in manuever, the less he demands in slaughter"...Winston Churchill

Offline The Mattler

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Re: Eldar Brigades
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2017, 12:00:33 AM »
I found one 6 MSU ranger brigade with banshees, hawks, fire prisms and reapers that someond made.

Any other type that would be competitive?
In addition to TheWarmaster40k and DakkaDakka, I posted that list here too.  I'll see what else I can come up with. :)

Keep in mind that he smallest Craftworlds Brigade looks like this, so if you just need a pile of CPs in a 2000pts game, you'll still have 1004pts left to spend on units that can use them effectively.  The absolute minimum is 996pts.

3 Warlocks
6 x 8 Storm Guardians
3 x 5 Howling Banshees
3 x 5 Swooping Hawks
3 Support Weapons w/Shadow Weavers

Realistically, though, if you were going for a fairly minimalist Brigade as a base, you might as well go for min(max)imalist instead.

BIEL-TAN BRIGADE
Asurmen
2 Spiritseers
6 x 5 Dire Avengers w/Exarch, 2 Avenger Shuriken Catapults
3 x 5 Howling Banshees w/Exarch, Executioner
3 x 5 Swooping Hawks w/Exarch, Hawk's Talon
3 x 3 Dark Reapers w/Exarch, Tempest Launcher
1315pts

With the remaining 685pts, you could either add more detachments to fix the lack of dedicated anti-tank, or just add to this one.  Since most of this list can move as a blob to get Asurmen's buff, if you wanted to go that route you could make the attribute Ulthwe and swap a Spiritseer for an Autarch to get a broader re-roll 1s buff.  The Ulthwe Autarch can potentially get even more CP with Fate Reader. 

Swapping out a Spiritseer for a Farseer and filling out 2 Dark Reaper squads might work, with or without the switch to Ulthwe.  It all depends on whether you want the extra full re-rolls (assuming the Farseer takes Guide and Natural Leader) instead of the 6+++ on everything.

If you wanted to keep the Biel-Tan Brigade mostly as-is, you could add some aircraft and some deep strike screening:

2 x 5 Rangers added to the Brigade
120pts

ALAITOC AIR WING
2 x Crimson Hunter Exarch w/2 Bright Lances
Hemlock Wraithfighter
560pts
1CP

If you wanted to take advantage of the Novalance and Warriors of the Raging Winds, you could add some Saim-Hann:

(Again) add 2 x 5 Rangers to the Brigade
120pts

SAIM-HANN OUTRIDER
Autach Skyrunner w/Laser Lance (Novalance of Saim-Hann), Reaper Launcher, Banshee Mask
9 Shining Spears w/Exarch, Star Lance
Vyper w/Bright Lance
Vyper w/Bright Lance
561pts
1CP

Note that the Vypers have Twin Shuriken Catapults.  Despite having Bright Lances, you would be moving them up the field and trying to charge them into shooting units by turn 2 at the latest.  The Bright Lances let them soften up large models from afar while their Catapults shoot whatever's nearby.

If you decided to simply add to the Biel-Tan Brigade, you could reconfigure and mechanize your more fragile elements, like this:

BIEL-TAN BRIGADE
Asurmen (Warlord; no trait, but tough)
Spiritseer w/Protect/Jinx
Spiritseer w/Quicken/Restrain
6 x 5 Dire Avengers w/Exarch, 2 Avenger Shuriken Catapults
2 x 5 Fire Dragons w/Exarch, Firepike
2 x 6 Howling Banshees w/Exarch, Executioner
3 x 5 Swooping Hawks w/Exarch, Hawk's Talon
3 x 4 Dark Reapers w/Exarch, Tempest Launcher
2 Wave Serpents w/Twin Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
1 Wave Serpent w/Twin Shuriken Cannon,Twin Shuriken Catapult, Spirit Stones
1997pts
12CP

With two of the Serpents each carrying 6 Banshees, 5 Dragons, and a Spiritseer, the Asurmen/Avenger blob becomes easier to maneuver. The Firepikes were the last thing I added, but they could make it easier to get extra melta damage or split fire to a more distant target.  Like the Vypers in the Outrider detachment above, these Wave Serpents are meant to bully shooting units, so the Twin Shuriken Catapults are fine.  The Reapers get the Serpent with the Spirit Stones.

I've probably rambled more than enough for now, but I hope I at least showed that Aeldari Brigades are a reasonable possibility at 2000pts.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 01:03:39 PM by The Mattler »
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Offline admironheart

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Re: Eldar Brigades
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2017, 09:39:18 AM »
That was awesome!  Great stuff there!
"Battles are decided by slaughter and maneuver.  The greater the general, the more he contributes in manuever, the less he demands in slaughter"...Winston Churchill

Offline The Mattler

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Re: Eldar Brigades
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2017, 01:02:45 PM »
ULTHWE BRIGADE
Farseer w/Singing Spear, Guide, Doom, Faolchu's Wing (Warlord: Seer of the Shifting Vector or Fate Reader)
Warlock w/Protect/Jinx
Warlock w/Conceal/Reveal
2 x 20 Guardian Defenders w/2 Shuriken Cannons
2 x 8 Storm Guardians w/6 Chainswords, 2 Flamers
2 x 5 Rangers
3 x 5 Howling Banshees w/Exarch, Executioner
3 x 3 Windriders
2 x 3 War Walkers w/2 Bright Lances
3 D-Cannons
1999pts
12 CP

Put the 40 Defenders in the Webway.  Guide one squad and Discipline of the Black Guardians the other, then use Fire and Fade and Celestial Shield to Protect them.  If you can put them in cover, they have a 2+ save with the platforms, which are there to keep the Guardians alive, not vice versa; allocate mutliwound/good AP to Guardians whenever possible, and allocate single wound/poor AP to the platforms.  You can also Guide a squad of War Walkers to cripple or destroy whatever vehicles are most likely to threaten them.  If your opponent has a lot of long-range anti-tank, it might be worth keeping your War Walkers off the table despite the penalty to hit; they can't shoot if they're dead, after all.  Doom to taste.  The D-Cannons and Rangers zone out reinforcements while providing annoying fire support.  The Banshees and Storm Guardians peel for War Walkers/D-Cannons as they move into enemy territory.  Warlocks reduce enemy saves, while Windriders go for the quick objective grabs.  Our shuriken will blot out the sun.  8)

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Offline Fenris

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Re: Eldar Brigades
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2017, 05:48:39 PM »
I ran this list a while ago, problem was it was too many killpoints and drops:


Ulthwé brigade:

Autarch skyrunner 108p (Warlord: Fate reader)
-Banshee mask, 2x Avenger shuriken catapults, twin shuriken catapults, blazing star of Vaul.
Farseer 100p [Doom, Executioner]
Warlock conclave 60p [Quicken/Restrain], [Protect/Jinx] (2x warlocks)

10x Guardians 80p
5x Dire Avengers 64p
-Exarch with dual catapults.
5x Dire Avengers 64p
-Exarch with dual catapults.
5x Rangers 60p
5x Rangers 60p
8x Storm Guardians 56p
-Chainswords.

10x Striking Scorpions 152p
-Exarch with scorpions claw.
10x Howling Banshees 133p
-Exarch with executioner.
5x Fire Dragons 123p
-Exarch with firepike.

5x Warp Spiders 102p
-Exarch with power blades & dual death spinners.
3x Shining Spears 95p
-Exarch with starlance.
5x Swooping Hawks 65p
-Exarch.

5x Dark Reapers 140p
-Exarch with tempest launcher.
War Walker 90p
-2x Brightlances.
War Walker 90p
-2x Brightlances.
War Walker 90p
-2x Brightlances.

Wave Serpent 134p
- 2+1 Shuriken cannons.
Wave Serpent 134p
- 2+1 Shuriken cannons.

Totalt
2000p
12CP

It actually did ok against Girlyman and AM parking lot, crushed the chaos berzerker list but struggled against deathguard (killpoints mission).

With more wave serpents, you can get less amount of drops, but the fast section has no possible passengers, so you will have to have at least 3 drops from there.
Minimal amount of drops would be:
3x hq's on foot
3x5 Elite aspects
6x5 Avengers/Rangers
3x Fast attack
3x Falcons
3x Serpents

For a total of 9 drops. Maybe this is the reason the falcon is so expensive?
I actually don't know if this will fit pointwise though.

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Offline The Mattler

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Re: Eldar Brigades
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2017, 06:30:43 PM »
Here's another one I just posted on DakkaDakka, trying to get the versatility and CP from little squads and buffing the big ones.

ULTHWE BRIGADE
Farseer w/Guide, Doom
Spiritseer w/Quicken/Restrain, Faolchu's Wing (Warlord, Seer of the Shifting Vector)
Warlock w/Conceal/Reveal
20 Guardian Defenders w/2 Shuriken Cannons
2 x 8 Storm Guardians w/6 Chainswords, 2 Flamers
3 x 5 Rangers
5 Howling Banshees w/Exarch, Executioner
5 Striking Scorpions w/Exarch, Scorpion's Claw
3 Shadow Spectres
9 Shining Spears w/Exarch, Star Lance
5 Swooping Hawks w/Exarch, Hawk's Talon
3 Windriders
10 Dark Reapers w/Exarch, Tempest Launcher
2 x D-Cannon
Hemlock w/Jinx
2000pts
12CP

As far as Aeldari Brigades go, this is about as versatile a list as I can write in 2000pts.  It has big, scary units of Reapers, Spears, and Defenders to make use of strategems and psychic buffs.  It has Rangers to zone out enemy reinforcements.  It has quick, little objective-grabbers like Hawks, Windriders, and (to a lesser extent) Scorpions.  It has annoying midfield control from a pair of D-Cannons and the rapid response of the Banshees, Shadow Spectres, and (sort of) Storm Guardians.  The Storm Guardians and the Spectres have 7 flame weapons between them for fending off hordes of squishy assault units and maybe the occasional aircraft.  They ever-popular Hemlock performs its usual punishment through even more autohits and accentuating morale losses.  You can also swap around the psychic powers to provide Mind War with a net 5 advantage (Hemlock -2 , Hawks +1, Embolden +2) if your opponent is dependent on a few key characters. 

Does it have laser-focused efficiency and redundancy?  No.  Does it have the tools to implement an adequate solution to almost any enemy lists or set of mission parameters without having any obvious hard counters?  Yes.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 06:32:57 PM by The Mattler »
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Offline Blazinghand

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Re: Eldar Brigades
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2017, 06:37:46 PM »
To some extent, Drops can be simplified by using transports. I think a lot of how you formulate a Brigade shouldn't be determined by what's cheapest in slot, but rather, what is best in slot. You won't be running fully mechanized, so something like Alaitoc will help a lot.

The choice is obvious for Fast Attack and Heavy Support; Eldar have some every standout choices in both of these. Swooping Hawks are excellent, and Dark Reapers give a strong firebase, as well as giving a lot of flexibility, both in terms of what they can shoot at and unit loadouts. Picking Dark Reapers as our Heavy Support choice over something like Fire Prisms also informs how the rest of our list will be built. Picking Swooping Hawks over Shining Spears (who are also strong) also changes the nature of the list, towards “firebase plus deep strike elements” since the way you support either is different. So let's build a list based on Dark Reapers and Swooping Hawks and see how that pans out.

For HQs, Warlocks and Farseers are both excellent. I think a 3rd Warlock may not be a great idea though. Especially if we want to protect a 10-elf Squad of Reapers, we will want conceal and protect, and perhaps also Guide. So 2 Warlocks, 1 Farseer will do it.

For Troops, we want screening units and units that can synergize well with our firebase. Almost all Eldar Troops are decent screeners, if a bit expensive, so how you go here is probably a matter of taste. If not for the need to include Elites, I'd go with 6x5 Rangers, which give a lot of objective grabbing abilities, reasonable durability against shooting (especially with Alaitoc), flexible screening, and so on.

However, we will want to include Elites, and Craftworld Eldar Elites are almost always short range or assault units that need a ride. A couple small squads of Dire Avengers to run with them would help.

Elites are tricky because they are powerful, but expensive to make work and needing support or delivery. In terms of Elites, we have a choice between relatively cheap aspect warriors that can be taken in small squads (banshees, scorpions, fire dragons) and wraith units with pretty comparable cost-per-wound but a high minimum cost. I'm not a huge fan of banshees or scorps personally, and Wraith units would be too expensive. Since we have lots of CP, it's also fine to webway strike a  unit here. Since our only anti-tank so far is the Dark Reapers, Fire Dragons are a good choice. They're also cheaper than Wraiths.

So that leaves us with Warlock x2, Farseer, Rangers and Dire Avengers, Swooping Hawks, Fire Dragons, and Dark Reapers. Tossing in a couple of transports for the Fire Dragons, we get...

HQ: Farseer, Warlock, Warlock – 170
Troops: 4x5 Rangers, 2x5 Dire Avengers with 2-catapult Exarch – 368
Elites – 2x6 Fire Dragons with Firepike Exarch, 1x9 FireDragons with Firepike Exarch – 513
Fast Attack – 3x5 Swooping Hawks with Talon Exarch – 204
Heavy Support – 2x3 Dark Reapers with Tempest Launcher Exarch, 1x10 Dark Reapers with Tempest Launcher Exarch – 447
Dedicated Transport – 2 Wave Serpents with Twin Shuriken Cannons, Twin Shuriken Catapults, Vectored Engines, Spirit Stones – 298

Total: 2,000 pts, 3+9 = 12 CP

Our hammer is simple: 3 Swooping Hawk Units and the big unit of Fire Dragons start in reserve. Fire Dragons use webway strike. Each of the 2 wave Serpents will hold 6 Fire Dragons and 5 Dire Avengers, making them a strong mobile threat to back up the deep striking aspect warriors. These Units between them will be good against anything from swarms to tanks, and will either start off the board or in durable transports.

Dire Avengers are also fine staying behind with the anvil as well.

The anvil consists of the 16 Dark Reapers, 3 spellcasters, and 20 rangers. The only defense it has against assaulters is defense in depth, though Forewarned may take down deep strikers. Against an army with a potential for turn 1 assault, the Rangers should be deployed defensively as speed bumps, with the Dire Avengers perhaps starting on foot as well. In a shooting fight, the Anvil has a good chance to win, thanks to conceal and protect (and maybe even Fortune) on the big unit of Dark Reapers, and the great difficulty already faced shooting Alaitoc Rangers.

It's not as strategically simple as a pure gunline type army, since you'll need to coordinate two halves with similar cost, but it has potential and lots of CP to spend.

Can get as low as 15 or 14 deployments if you're clever, but you'll probably lose the deployment war and your opponent will get the +1. That's to be expected with a Brigade though.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 06:41:12 PM by Blazinghand »
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