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Author Topic: Opinions on Shining Spears  (Read 632 times)

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Offline AngelFist

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Opinions on Shining Spears
« on: December 2, 2017, 07:35:49 AM »
I have tried out my little Squad of five after they gathered a lot of dust over the last editions.
My conclusion after some games (i proxied each game more till i ran with 15) is that they are hilariously undercosted.
They are very fast, pretty tough and hit like a truck.
The best thing is, they can kill GEQ, MEQ, TEQ and Vehicles pretty efficient and are able to charge (kill) fliers on top of that.
Basically you get a swiss army knife with an invuln vs shooting. If you add diverse stratagems it gets pretty overpowered fast.
Do i miss something?

Offline Gildaheir

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Re: Opinions on Shining Spears
« Reply #1 on: December 2, 2017, 12:49:34 PM »
Totally agreed. I run 6x with an exarch (star lance). They're fantastic, priced really nicely, and always surprise my opponents with just how much firepower they actually generate. Very productive and versatile unit for sure.

Offline Cavalier

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Re: Opinions on Shining Spears
« Reply #2 on: December 2, 2017, 01:37:49 PM »
Are you guys running them Saim-Hann? Or something else. Been debating if they are worth it, without Saim-Hann traits
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Offline AngelFist

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Re: Opinions on Shining Spears
« Reply #3 on: December 2, 2017, 02:17:19 PM »
Saim-Hann trait does not much for them (you want to be 6" or closer to get the most out of shooting), but the stratagem is really powerful.
But even as non Saim-Hann they are really solid.
Their speed coupled with their effectiveness against any target makes them really strong.
For the price of two marines, you get two marines with a speed upgrade, a additional heavy ranged weapon fired as assault weapon, a additional close combat weapon (a beefed up powerweapon),fly and on top of that a invuln save vs shooting. Crazy.

Offline Fenris

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Re: Opinions on Shining Spears
« Reply #4 on: December 2, 2017, 02:59:11 PM »
I've said Shining Spears are one of the best units in our codex, but that's not really correct, shining spears is THE best unit in the codex.

Better profiles than bolters at an effective range of 28", then they can charge with essentially powerfists. They are also harder to kill than primarines.


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Offline DuckWake

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Re: Opinions on Shining Spears
« Reply #5 on: December 2, 2017, 03:01:13 PM »
For the price of two marines

Don't forget that you have to pay for the twin shuriken catapults!

Offline Partninja

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Re: Opinions on Shining Spears
« Reply #6 on: December 2, 2017, 04:29:09 PM »
Are you guys running them Saim-Hann? Or something else. Been debating if they are worth it, without Saim-Hann traits

The Saim-hann trait isn't really needed as you should be 6" away before you assault anyway. I usually have a warlock with Quicken to hurl them across the table. They work great with Alaitoc (to help protect them if you go second), Ulthwe (multiple would models love FnP) and Biel-tan (reroll those shurikens or is the charge+reroll on hits strat).

Offline SeekingOne

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Re: Opinions on Shining Spears
« Reply #7 on: December 2, 2017, 05:23:33 PM »
They have a cost of 2.3 marines. They are very good as Saim-Hann, not so much as anything else - it's the Saim-Hann stratagem that makes them devastating.

Per their base stats and cost, they are a very solid highly efficient unit, worthy of a place in a highly competitive list. Thing is though that they have to get really close to the enemy, and being close to the enemy is highly detrimental for one's life expectancy. They can be killed fairly easily with any multi-D weapon, which are plentiful in any properly optimised list. I've been proxying a unit of 6 in my games lately (my actual spears are still awaiting their turn to get painted), and in most of my games they assault and kill something on turn 1, then die in my opponent's next shooting phase.

There's one thing that seems to make them pretty OP though, and that thing is a warlock with Protect.
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Offline Gildaheir

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Re: Opinions on Shining Spears
« Reply #8 on: December 3, 2017, 02:48:21 PM »
I have run them in Alaitoc and been plenty happy. Quicken and Protect are fantastic for them. Frankly, with Quicken, I don't see much reason to run them Saim Hann. Getting them to combat is no problem. Alaitoc is nice if they're being shot top of turn one. Combo with the -1 stratagem and the enemy will have to waste an inordinate quantity of firepower to drag them down.  I find that I can reliably kill or neuter a large chaff unit with the shuriken fire and use the lances + melee to drop a vehicle, monster, or multi wound unit in one go. And they hold up surprisingly well the next turn thanks to their 4++ vs shooting.

Offline magenb

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Re: Opinions on Shining Spears
« Reply #9 on: December 3, 2017, 06:44:37 PM »
People are starting to wake up on how good spears are, so they are now taking a lot more fire.

Saim-Hann... if you are building a SH army then yeah go for it. If you want to add Spears to your list, don't bother making a separate SH detachment for them. they really don't need it.

8th edition is brutal, the sheer scale of firepower now means any squad can be taken out in a single round. That said, you have to focus a significant amount of it to remove spears.

8th is really feeling a lot more like chess now, where you are baiting people into taking pieces.


Offline TheEldarGuy

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Re: Opinions on Shining Spears
« Reply #10 on: December 3, 2017, 07:25:08 PM »
Long time Shining Spears user.

I've always included at least 3 (even back when 2 and the Exarch cost 210points!), now I take 5 with me wherever I go.

Yes, they smack hard and fast, but I like to keep them as my rapid response team. When those pesky deepstrikers arrive (usually in the form of Tau Battlesuits) or I need to separate an enemy force, then they get to lay on the smack!

I've always used them as the Heavy Cavalry option, and as such kept them in position.

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Re: Opinions on Shining Spears
« Reply #11 on: December 4, 2017, 05:54:37 PM »
I think even without the Saim-Hann trait, Shining Spears can be good, since you often want to get pretty close anyways. I haven't run them since the Codex dropped, but when I finish the set I am working on now, I'll give them a try. I wonder of a unit of 3 (Exarch with Star Lance) is the best way to go, since a smaller unit like that can more easily hide behind LoS blocking terrain and have a better ratio of Exarchs to Aspect Warriors (since the Exarch costs the same or only slight more and is like at least 50% better).
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Offline Sarkrim

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Re: Opinions on Shining Spears
« Reply #12 on: December 4, 2017, 06:33:08 PM »
I've been using 2 units of 4, sadly only an exarch in 1 group as I only have one, in the last few games and they've haven't disappointed at all. I'm pretty sure my use of them have been more than suboptimal, but so far people have seriously underestimated how dangerous they can be.

I feel that a unit of 3 is too small to get enough damage out of them. 5 or more and you're getting into unwieldy territory, but 4 seems to still be a small enough unit that they can hide if needed and they deliver enough punch.

Also quicken and their insane mobility will catch opponents off guard as the spears suddenly show up in a place they did not expect them to be in and throw a massive wrench in their plans.

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Re: Opinions on Shining Spears
« Reply #13 on: December 5, 2017, 12:52:10 AM »
I've used Shining Spears a few times.  Sometimes I've overestimated their durability and had them wipe one enemy unit just to get torched themselves in turn.  I've found a squad of four including Exarch to be just right not too much of an investment, still dangerous, not a high priority target.

If you get an opportune Quicken off on them they are good character assassins as well; able to move far enough and with Fly that they can easily end up closest to an enemy character.
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Offline haunt

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Re: Opinions on Shining Spears
« Reply #14 on: December 5, 2017, 11:11:58 PM »
It just means that this is the era of the aeldari jetbikes ruling the field, lol.
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Re: Opinions on Shining Spears
« Reply #15 on: December 5, 2017, 11:22:05 PM »
It just means that this is the era of the aeldari jetbikes ruling the field, lol.
Hasn't it been that era for a while now?
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Offline haunt

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Re: Opinions on Shining Spears
« Reply #16 on: December 7, 2017, 09:21:37 AM »
Got a point there, this just makes melee bikes even as good too.
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Offline SeekingOne

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Re: Opinions on Shining Spears
« Reply #17 on: December 7, 2017, 01:36:32 PM »
Hasn't it been that era for a while now?
Purely in terms of killing power, Shining Spears currently are WAY better than scatter-bikes ever were in 7th. Back in 7th there were lots of units that just laughed at scatter lasers: Riptides, Dreadknights, Castellan Robots, Invisible grav-Centurions, jinking Ravenwing bikers, 2++ or 3++ rerolling 1s Tzeenchites, etc. Nowadays, I haven't yet seen or heard of a unit that a decent squad of Spears wouldn't cut right through (provided they get to attack first).

Yet at the same time Spears are a much more 'honest' unit than 7th edition scatter-bikes - they don't get to hide after attacking and they go straight into the enemy's face, which makes them much more killable. They are also not Troops. Which is probably why all my regular opponents whine and moan about Dark Reapers but seem ok with my Shining Spears. Come to think of it, psychology has a huge effect on the people's perception of game balance.
« Last Edit: December 7, 2017, 01:38:07 PM by SeekingOne »
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Offline The Mattler

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Re: Opinions on Shining Spears
« Reply #18 on: December 8, 2017, 08:05:08 PM »
Come to think of it, psychology has a huge effect on the people's perception of game balance.
That why I keep saying that psychology in 40k is just exploiting your opponent's calculation failure.

Regarding the Spears, I think it's safe to say that they're unfair.  They eclipse the rest of the Aeldari melee units already, and they're monsters in Ynnari detachments.  Reapers get Yvraine's Word of the Phoenix, and the Spears make their own when they charge.  It's hard not to get extra actions with them.
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Offline SeekingOne

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Re: Opinions on Shining Spears
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2017, 09:07:55 AM »
They only eclipse Craftworld melee units, which is not hard to do at all, as they aren't particularly outstanding to start with. Ynnari making units unbalanced is also a problem of Ynnari rules, not the units. I personally dream of the day when GW finally decides to ditch this whole silly Ynnari thing altogether. The very concept is broken at its core - one and the same unit with one and the same cost cannot be balanced both with Ynnari rules and without them.

Spears imo will be right at 35-36 pts per model. 40 pts per model will likely kill them as a competitive option - Terminators are better protected, yet they don't work at that cost.
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