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Author Topic: New Codex: First Impressions  (Read 4176 times)

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Offline Partninja

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #40 on: October 23, 2017, 05:50:16 PM »
The order doesn't make you shoot. It just gives a bonus when you do shoot. That bonus is immediately issued via the FAQ. I don't see anywhere that says you also immediately shoot.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 05:58:48 PM by Partninja »

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2017, 06:02:09 PM »
The order doesn't make you shoot. It just gives a bonus when you do shoot. That bonus is immediately issued via the FAQ. I don't see anywhere that says you also immediately shoot.


Quote
Q: If I issue an order to a unit with an Officer who has the Laurels of Command, and I roll a 4+ to issue another order to the same unit, do I resolve the first order before issuing the second? A: Yes.

Q: Can I use Laurels of Command to issue the same order twice to the same unit?
A: No, the second order issued must be a different order.


Agreed. You just issue orders at the beginning of the phase and then go buck wild. Most of the orders abilities last until the end of turn, and don't take place immediately.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2017, 07:56:20 PM »
But how can an order be considered "resolved" before you use it? Are we exchanging "resolved" with "issued?"

What's the difference between the two? So far as I can tell, it should be that you actually complete the order before getting a new one. Why else would there be a question?

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #43 on: October 23, 2017, 08:04:10 PM »
That's how I read it. It says resolved as in finished. If you immediately issue another order the first one is just hanging there like the saddest partially completed high-five.
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Offline Partninja

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2017, 08:05:31 PM »
You did complete the order. You give the unit rerolls, which happens before they even fire. Then you immediately make their weapons shoot more shots. Again, before they even fire.

Weather you issue or resolve the order, it's still not making them fire yet. They're just getting bonuses.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 08:06:35 PM by Partninja »

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2017, 08:07:17 PM »
Then what is the question asking?
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Offline Partninja

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2017, 08:18:13 PM »
I'm not sure. I've been confused about FAQ questions in the past before. They sometimes add more vagueness. The wrong question is asked a lot IMO.

 In either case, I don't see anything that says immediately fire your weapons (voice of command, the order, or the FAQ/Relic).

Edit: also note, you issue all orders at the start of the shooting phase. Units aren't required to iummediately act as soon as the order is given in this instance either (at least not the example orders).
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 08:39:32 PM by Partninja »

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2017, 08:43:23 PM »
The question/answer says something must be done prior to issuing the second order. What is that thing? Wyddr and I are saying it means using the order.
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Offline Partninja

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #48 on: October 23, 2017, 08:59:48 PM »
Right. It's saying the first order must be resolved first. Issuing or "resolving" an order applies a bonus. No where does it say that actually firing is part of that. You're resolving the bonus. That's the only "action". The fact that the orders are until the end of the phase would imply this.

Going by your logic what double order could actually work then? Move, Move Move is instead of shooting. so that can't be comboed with any shooting orders. It also can't be used with fix bayonets since you would already need to be in combat. You can't combo with any any non-shooting orders either.

« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 09:06:49 PM by Partninja »

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #49 on: October 23, 2017, 09:10:25 PM »
Yeah, shooting or running, or making a melee attack is not using the order. Issuing the order is using the order.

You could then (if you wanted), give take aim, and bring it down to the same unit, allowing the re-rolls to hits and wounds. Unlike in 7th, issuing the order doesn't force the ordered unit to immediately fire it's weapons. That's why the bonuses all last until the end of the phase.

The only orders which force a unit to activate, are move move move, and fix bayonets.

Granted, you normally cannot issue multiple orders to one unit, which is where that relic comes in. Although, to be fair, you'll probably always take the relic to steal your opponents command points.

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Offline Partninja

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #50 on: October 23, 2017, 09:16:15 PM »
Depends on the list. Taking the relic for stealing command points (which can go above your starting number of CP) combined with the warlord trait for when you spend CP is really strong.


For my Scions, the rerolls to hits, wounds (both the normal order and the scions special order) as well as first rank second rank are the most back for the buck. Hence why being able to double "shoot order" is so important. I need more orders than I need stratagems (in my experience).

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #51 on: October 23, 2017, 09:20:54 PM »
Issuing the order is not resolving it else the question wouldn't exist. If issuing the order already resolves it then there's nothing to be resolved before issuing the second order.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 09:22:21 PM by The GrimSqueaker »
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #52 on: October 23, 2017, 09:23:01 PM »
I don't understand what the FAQ could possibly be clarifying besides saying you can't shoot twice.

Move Move Move could easily be issued after shooting, Get Back In The Fight plus FR/SR. Some regiment specific orders could overlap.

Originally, there was no argument you could stack shooting orders--it was crystal clear. The only reason for this clarification would be to prevent the very thing you guys want to do.

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #53 on: October 23, 2017, 09:30:58 PM »
Yeah, you can't shoot twice, just stack orders.

I think I misunderstood what you folks were arguing about.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 09:33:58 PM by Killersquid »
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Offline Partninja

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #54 on: October 23, 2017, 10:24:38 PM »
I'm not saying you can shoot twice either. Where did you get that from? I'm talking about staking shooting oriented orders....

To clarify:

That change was needed.

Also, our whole talk about Laurels of Command was for naught. You can't issue two shooting orders to the same unit now. <shrug>

I was responding to this quote. I am saying you can stack two shooting orders as the bonuses apply before you shoot. I'm not sure how this turned into me saying you can shoot twice.

1) Issue shooting related order at start of shooting phase
2) Order resolved and unit gains a bonus (not forced to fire yet)
3) immediately roll D6 and pass for 2nd order
4) issue 2nd shooting related order
5) 2nd order resolves (gain second bonus)
6) continue casting all other orders at start of shooting phase for other officers
7) now you actually shoot (ONCE) gaining both bonuses
 
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 10:39:34 PM by Partninja »

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #55 on: October 23, 2017, 10:50:10 PM »
Point 2 and 5 is the issue. How is the order resolved? If merely issuing the order is an automatic resolve then the question wasn't relevant to begin with.
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Offline Partninja

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #56 on: October 23, 2017, 10:55:07 PM »
And it would be in line with other silly FAQs where it wasn't needed or the question was poorly worded/answered.

How is Eldar Guide resolved? The unit doesn't immediately shoot then either. The spell is resolved by the unit gaining the bonus. Then it uses the bonus when it goes to shoot.

You can't Move move move then using a shooting order as MMM is specifically in place of shooting.

How does get back in the fight plus FR/SR work? If you fall back you then immediately shoot by your logic...then you can't use FR/SR since you already fired.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 11:00:55 PM by Partninja »

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #57 on: October 23, 2017, 10:59:46 PM »
No. This one specifically says you resolve the first order before issuing the second. You're saying issuing the order is resolution itself which makes no sense at all given the context of the question.

Edit: 1 - Please don't edit a post after someone else has posted without making clear your changes. It's bad social etiquette.

2 - You mean there may be issues with stacking orders even though the FAQ says resolve 1 before 2. Yes. That's the point.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 11:05:37 PM by The GrimSqueaker »
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Offline Partninja

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #58 on: October 23, 2017, 11:06:02 PM »
I can't say why GW does what it does or where they pull silly questions from.

If the orders don't work this way I don't see the point in it at all then. I see no other combinations that work.

Edit: I edited my posts before there were responses.
Edit 2: at least before the internet showed there was a response.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 11:11:59 PM by Partninja »

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #59 on: October 23, 2017, 11:09:26 PM »
Look at the time stamps.  ;)
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