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Author Topic: New Codex: First Impressions  (Read 4928 times)

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Offline Partninja

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2017, 09:02:21 AM »
The points increase on the plasma guns is making me rearrange my pure Scion/Assassins army. Basically had to drop two command squads to back fill the points for plasma just for my troops. Quite a bit of missing fire power there. However, with all the fancy orders, stratagems and what-nots I'll probably make out ok. Overall happy with it.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2017, 09:46:27 AM »
Played against a cadian Leman Russ army with a Baneblade variant last week (Two tank commanders, two enginseers, baneblade, 4-6 russ's...

I was toying with this as a fun concept the other day, but I eventually concluded that you really *need* some kind of assault screen, otherwise the tanks are going to be stuck in combat or falling back all game. Seems I was right.

For me, the biggest disappointment in the book is the Basilisk, which is just *not good* and the exact same cost as it was. Would have liked to see *either* a nice discount OR some kind of firepower boost. As it stands, it's just a sub-par lascannon squad for 50% more points. 

The points increase on the plasma guns is making me rearrange my pure Scion/Assassins army. Basically had to drop two command squads to back fill the points for plasma just for my troops. Quite a bit of missing fire power there. However, with all the fancy orders, stratagems and what-nots I'll probably make out ok. Overall happy with it.

My intended list wasn't relying quite so heavily on plasma as that. Worked out that all I had to do was swap an Avenger Strike Fighter for an Executioner (which, given the new rules, has better damage output anyway).

I've been thinking a lot about Relics and Warlord Traits lately. There's a certain appeal to taking a Commander with Graf Toschenko's Plate, a power fist, and the Vostroyan Warlord trait and punching big dudes in the face with a stupidly cheap model. Of course, then you're also running your Warlord at the enemy, which is a good way to give them a point. Hmmmm...

Offline Partninja

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2017, 05:45:10 PM »
My group is going to RAI the relic for double orders to work. That's pretty strong for my Scions.

Also considering the one that gives you CP back when your opponent spends them combined with the warlord trait for when you spend CP.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2017, 11:49:52 AM »
The double-orders one is weird, since you're supposed to execute the order immediately when issued, but you can only shoot once. Seems like the only orders you can issue along with another is a Move Move Move or Get Back in the Fight.

Offline Partninja

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2017, 12:16:40 PM »
Not even that. The voice of command specifically states a unit can only be affected by one order per turn.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2017, 01:38:46 PM »
Oh, well it seems pretty clear the relic overrides that. Are people even suggesting it doesn't?

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2017, 02:07:54 PM »
What's the wording of the relic?
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2017, 03:41:10 PM »
What's the wording of the relic?

"Roll a die each time the bearer issues an order to a friendly <Regiment> unit within XXX." On a X+ the bearer can immediately issue another order to the same unit."

Seems pretty clear to me--the relic is overriding the standard Voice of Command limitations.

Offline Partninja

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2017, 03:49:06 PM »
I assume the idea is that while nothing prevents you from issuing two orders to a unit, the unit can only be affected by one order per the voice of command rule.

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2017, 06:11:55 PM »
I assume the idea is that while nothing prevents you from issuing two orders to a unit, the unit can only be affected by one order per the voice of command rule.

But that would make the relic utterly pointless, surely?

I'm with Wyddr on this one; the relic overrides the limitation imposed by word of command.
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Offline Killersquid

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2017, 06:52:44 PM »
What's the wording of the relic?

"Roll a die each time the bearer issues an order to a friendly <Regiment> unit within XXX." On a X+ the bearer can immediately issue another order to the same unit."

Seems pretty clear to me--the relic is overriding the standard Voice of Command limitations.

Seems clear to me too.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2017, 08:59:41 PM »
I think the larger issue is that you can only really use it to issue Move Move Move or Get Back in the Fight plus one shooty order. Sure, that's handy, but good enough to justify giving up another relic?

That said, now that I'm thinking about it, it would be pretty nasty on Vostroyans: issue a Fix Bayonets and then a Repel the Enemy and you are putting out a *lot* of hurt on an assault unit. 

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2017, 10:50:17 PM »
What's the wording of the relic?

"Roll a die each time the bearer issues an order to a friendly <Regiment> unit within XXX." On a X+ the bearer can immediately issue another order to the same unit."

Seems pretty clear to me--the relic is overriding the standard Voice of Command limitations.
I think this is a case of people thinking too hard, like they used to have to in the previous edition.

To me, it is very clear that it allows the second order.  The argument is similar to the one for the regiment getting the overwatch bonus.  People were trying to argue that because the rules for Overwatch state that it can never be modified, that the regimental rules don't work.  As it is, it is very much a case for specific trumping general.
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Offline Partninja

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2017, 12:33:18 PM »
I don't see why you couldn't use two shooty orders if the relic has you "immediately" issue a second order, which would be before the shooting action is taken.

For my Scions, I want the rerolls of 1s and rapid 2 hot-shot.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2017, 01:13:23 PM »
I don't see why you couldn't use two shooty orders if the relic has you "immediately" issue a second order, which would be before the shooting action is taken.

For my Scions, I want the rerolls of 1s and rapid 2 hot-shot.

I was about to explain how you have to execute the orders immediately, but in going back I see that such language has been taken out. In fact, everything says "until the end of the phase." That's new (perhaps as of this edition, but this is the first time I've noticed it).

That's...huge, actually. You can opt to have your ordered units act later in the phase! You just have to issue orders first and then go about having a normal shooting phase. Holy crap, you guys! No more having to burn orders to try and kill transports so I can FR/SR the guys inside!

Yaaay!

Offline Killersquid

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2017, 01:30:33 PM »
New FAQs and Errata for the Astra Militarum and beyond – Warhammer


Well, the Astra Millitarium faq is out, and successful stopped conscript abuse, by changing commissars. Thank the gods. This single handedly changes the competitive meta on its own.

Also, a bunch of other faq's which stopped a bunch of arguments. Like 'send in the next wave' does cost renforcment points. Like it should.

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2017, 05:53:39 PM »
New FAQs and Errata for the Astra Militarum and beyond Warhammer


Well, the Astra Millitarium faq is out, and successful stopped conscript abuse, by changing commissars. Thank the gods. This single handedly changes the competitive meta on its own.

Also, a bunch of other faq's which stopped a bunch of arguments. Like 'send in the next wave' does cost renforcment points. Like it should.

The Commissar change is absolutely huge!
A few interesting little changes, but the commissar change really is the big one.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2017, 09:21:24 PM »
That change was needed.

Also, our whole talk about Laurels of Command was for naught. You can't issue two shooting orders to the same unit now. <shrug>

Offline Partninja

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2017, 03:46:39 PM »

Also, our whole talk about Laurels of Command was for naught. You can't issue two shooting orders to the same unit now. <shrug>

How so? You issue take aim. They get the reroll but haven't fired yet. You immediately roll a D6 and pass the roll to issue the second order for FRF-SRF. Then then they fire receiving both bonuses.

EDIT: Unless you meant splitting orders between fire as described further above (pop tank - shoot occupants)?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 03:52:51 PM by Partninja »

Offline Wyddr

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Re: New Codex: First Impressions
« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2017, 05:36:35 PM »
The FAQ reads that you have to "execute the order first." That means shooting. You can't shoot twice, so...

 


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