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Offline Wyddr

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Re: New Codex
« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2017, 04:41:08 PM »
Shooting into combat? About time that showed up.

I'd expect orks/nids to get something similar.

Offline magenb

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Re: New Codex
« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2017, 07:59:58 PM »
Dude, you don't *have* to deploy on the line, you know. You'll usually be going first, too.

Have a flip through the open war pack, most of them have a no mans land of less than 18".

Even if you can deploy your entire army out of range, you are going to have to move, so your just delaying the inevitable.

I don't really like games where its just seeing who can drop the nuke first.

T1 wipe is back with a vengeance in 8th, which is why everyone is reaching for LOS blocking terrain, but lets be honest, that really only blunts the attack, unless you are fighting over Trumps wall, you can still lose 20%+ of any army before its moved. Lots of LOS blocking also means less cover on the table, which again make stuff more fragile.

Just wish GW would stop handing out nukes like lollypops. Models with good rules will still sell, you don't need to go over the top. The more balanced the game is, the more fun it is, the more people will play it, the more models get sold especially over the long term. The more OP you go, the less people enjoy it, the less people play it, long term less models get sold.



Offline Wyddr

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Re: New Codex
« Reply #42 on: September 28, 2017, 09:36:39 PM »
Have a flip through the open war pack, most of them have a no mans land of less than 18".

Even if you can deploy your entire army out of range, you are going to have to move, so your just delaying the inevitable.

We could sit here and talk deployment tactics, but I really have to ask how you dealt with long-range shooty armies in any other edition, because nothing has changed to make life harder for assaulty armies really at all.

Fast assaulty armies now usually get first turn, can make first turn assaults, can assault after deepstrike, and are blessed with the edition with the absolute most durable, assault-friendly transports in the history of the game (which can contain more than one unit). If an extra 6" on a Demolisher Cannon is what knocks you out of the running, I'm not sure what I can say. 

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I don't really like games where its just seeing who can drop the nuke first.

When hasn't this been the case, exactly? 40K has always been about positioning your forces to make a killing blow. 8th Edition has made it so that such killing blows occur about a turn earlier than before, yes, and yeah, alpha strike is a concern. But it has always always been a concern. Do you remember the Leafblower? The Rhino Rush? Thunderwolf shenanigans? The Lysander Wing? Farsight Bomb?

And, if I may say so, it seems odd that a thread about the Imperial Guard has you freaking out about alpha strike, considering that, by the current iteration of the rules, Imperial Guard armies pretty much never, ever go first. You just alpha strike them before they beta strike you (and yeah, Conscripts suck--no argument there). Get up in their face. Snipe their officers.

So far, I haven't seen anywhere close to as many abusive builds in this edition than in almost any other edition I've played (and I've played since 2nd). There's the stupid Imperial Assassin Screen, Conscript Blobs, and stupid Roboute Guilliman with his Imperial Soup, but past that?

This edition works just fine. It has some kinks, but for the first time (ever) GW is actively attempting to address them. I think, overall, elite armies got kicked in the teeth and hordes are on top right now, but I don't see that as a death knell to the game by any means.   

Offline Killersquid

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Re: New Codex
« Reply #43 on: September 29, 2017, 08:05:28 AM »
I'm going to agree with Wydrr. Nothing is different then previous editions, and really way more easy to deal with. Also, the terrain on your table should block line of sight. If none of your terrain is line of sight blocking, then of course shooting focused armies are going to do well.

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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: New Codex
« Reply #44 on: September 29, 2017, 11:35:00 AM »
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: New Codex
« Reply #45 on: September 29, 2017, 12:23:59 PM »
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Very solid entry. They look like fun and not at all overpowered or underpowered.

I do think just about everybody is going to take Kurov's Aquila, though.

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Re: New Codex
« Reply #46 on: September 29, 2017, 01:36:15 PM »
Yeah, that does look like a handy relic to have.
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Offline Calamity

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Re: New Codex
« Reply #47 on: September 29, 2017, 01:46:29 PM »
Yeah I'd have it.  More cps is always useful. I wonder if the other relics of old like the tactical auto-reliquary of Tyberius will get a look in?

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Re: New Codex
« Reply #48 on: September 29, 2017, 02:47:53 PM »
From looking through the Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine codex, most of the old relics seem to be back in a similar way to how they were before (plus tons more). Wouldn't be surprised to see old favourites back. Although, I never saw anyone take any relics for their guard in 7th edition, so I don't even know any.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: New Codex
« Reply #49 on: September 29, 2017, 07:02:31 PM »
From looking through the Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine codex, most of the old relics seem to be back in a similar way to how they were before (plus tons more). Wouldn't be surprised to see old favourites back. Although, I never saw anyone take any relics for their guard in 7th edition, so I don't even know any.

Kurov's Aquila was one of them. It let people re-roll 1s in a bubble. There was also a handy swagger stick that made almost every order automatic--great with the Artillery Formation.

Offline Looshkin

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Re: New Codex
« Reply #50 on: September 30, 2017, 04:16:23 AM »
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Very solid entry. They look like fun and not at all overpowered or underpowered.

I do think just about everybody is going to take Kurov's Aquila, though.

It could lead to quite a ridiculous game tbh. Granted, it would take the craziest rolling ever, but if 2 IG armies face off, both with Kurov's Aquila...well, you could get a game with an infinite amount of CPs.
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Offline magenb

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Re: New Codex
« Reply #51 on: September 30, 2017, 08:54:01 AM »
And, if I may say so, it seems odd that a thread about the Imperial Guard has you freaking out about alpha strike,

Not worried by just IG armies, its the trend that is happening in the codex releases. The game wasn't suffering from NOT having a tanks that could drop 40 shots at 30". The games wasn't suffer from a tough unit of infantry throwing out 10D6+ shots with mortal wounds, etc, etc.




Offline Killersquid

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Re: New Codex
« Reply #52 on: September 30, 2017, 09:32:49 AM »
Leman russes are still not amazing. The 40 shots still only bs4 and s5. Also heavily restricts mobility.

I'm not too worried about them, they needed the boost.  We also don't know points changes yet. Guard needed better internal balance, this all helps towards that.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: New Codex
« Reply #53 on: September 30, 2017, 11:14:49 AM »
Leman russes are still not amazing. The 40 shots still only bs4 and s5. Also heavily restricts mobility.

This (though mobility has *never* been the LRBT's strong suit). I think they're quite powerful in their niche now (light infantry won't be getting too close to *that*), but they ought to be. And honestly, every single other LR variant needs this boost to be even worth taking. Hell, the Eradicator *still* sucks bigtime. 

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I'm not too worried about them, they needed the boost.  We also don't know points changes yet. Guard needed better internal balance, this all helps towards that.

According to GW, the Russes are getting a "slight" point decrease across the board. I'm reading this as 10 points or so, but I could be wrong. We could see the cost of specific turret weapons change, too. I'd expect a slight discount to everything and probably a slight boost to the Punisher Cannon, but who knows?

 

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Re: New Codex
« Reply #54 on: September 30, 2017, 11:43:17 AM »
Hell, the Eradicator *still* sucks bigtime. 
Eradicator is the Autocannon variant, correct?  I could see them doing there what they did with the Predator and giving it it's own stat line of improved damage or something.
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Offline Killersquid

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Re: New Codex
« Reply #55 on: September 30, 2017, 12:16:32 PM »
No, That's the exterminator. The eradicator has the eradicator nova cannon. It's the one that ignores cover. Not that bad, but not too exciting either. It's basically a weaker battle cannon with less range.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: New Codex
« Reply #56 on: September 30, 2017, 01:27:49 PM »
No, That's the exterminator. The eradicator has the eradicator nova cannon. It's the one that ignores cover. Not that bad, but not too exciting either. It's basically a weaker battle cannon with less range.

It also costs *more* than the battlecannon, both in relative and absolute terms. So, half the range, 75% the strength, and a few points more all so you can *occasionally* score an extra point of AP.

Garbage.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 02:57:54 PM by Wyddr »

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Re: New Codex
« Reply #57 on: September 30, 2017, 02:55:16 PM »
I don't think the eradicator has ever been a viable choice.  Not when compared to the other Russ variants.  Plus the hellhound used to do its job a lot better too.

They should have bumped its range up to 48" and increased its attacks, even at the cost of reducing its strength.  Turn it into a proper infantry killer.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: New Codex
« Reply #58 on: September 30, 2017, 02:59:08 PM »
So the regimental doctrines for Cadia, Tallarn, and the Tempestus just leaked. I'll let you guys track them down--look in the usual spots--but I will say this: Tallarns are basically Eldar now (plugs ears for expected Eldar howling), Tempestus got a good bit better, and Cadians are freaking ridiculous.

You thought guard gunlines were bad before? Three words: Army. Wide. Rerolls.   

I don't think the eradicator has ever been a viable choice.  Not when compared to the other Russ variants.  Plus the hellhound used to do its job a lot better too.

They should have bumped its range up to 48" and increased its attacks, even at the cost of reducing its strength.  Turn it into a proper infantry killer.

The Eradicator was fairly decent against footdar, Static Tau, and enemy IG--basically anybody who fielded a lot of infantry and needed cover to survive. Now it isn't even any good at that, even *with* Grinding Advance. 

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Re: New Codex
« Reply #59 on: September 30, 2017, 03:03:25 PM »
So the regimental doctrines for Cadia, Tallarn, and the Tempestus just leaked. I'll let you guys track them down--look in the usual spots--but I will say this: Tallarns are basically Eldar now (plugs ears for expected Eldar howling), Tempestus got a good bit better, and Cadians are freaking ridiculous.

Oh, I'm sure everyone will respond with the polite, well thought out, and restrained manner we're used to when it comes to new codex responses. Famous across all the lands for not flying off the handle when confronted with someone else doing things better or even merely differently. Famous.
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