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Author Topic: Primaris as a Stand Alone Force  (Read 1281 times)

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Offline Temperance

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Primaris as a Stand Alone Force
« on: September 2, 2017, 07:45:12 PM »
Hey. I've been away ages, sort of vaguely following updates to the game.

Am curious how the new Primaris guys do if you make your list exclusively of them (and not the smaller scale/regular scale[?]] marines). Am sure it's fine if you're just out to roll some dice. Can you make a list that's (decently) competitive that way though? Or are you really hamstringing yourself by sticking to the larger scale?

Also same question, but in reverse.

How badly are you limiting yourself in a (somewhat) competitive environment if you were to stick to the small/regular[?] scale marines?

I ask because I'm, vaguely, considering starting an army up again. Not my sisters of battle, because I've honestly given up on GW caring about them. It's a shame but... yeah. So it would have to be a new one. I'm a bit low on cash and would do it slowly.... but Primaris marines seem like a list that might not need too many models. If you guys can think of any other decent lists that are (relatively) cheap, feel free to suggest too.

Not really focused on absolutely min-maxed tourney environments for this question. But one where people do generally tend to try and hunt down the more cost effective and reasonable options at their disposal and run with those.
« Last Edit: September 2, 2017, 07:46:54 PM by Temperance »

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Primaris as a Stand Alone Force
« Reply #1 on: September 2, 2017, 09:37:41 PM »
Welcome back to the hobby!

As far as elite armies go, Primaris are decent, although from my experience of killing them, the die just as easily. I think the normal bread and butter smurf is doing better than ever.

Also to consider, Grey Knights are typically a good small elite army that you can get some good millage out of just a few units (and, they are one of the few that currently have a Codex out - which could be good or bad...)

I'd also throw out Harlequins as a decent elite army. They are much improved this edition, and are also in the few model count side. If you want something completely different, they may be for you.

Finally, as to your SoB's - I wouldn't give up hope just yet. TBH - if you decide to take another Imperium army, and latter on GW decides to show the girls a bit of love, then you could use both armies together
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Primaris as a Stand Alone Force
« Reply #2 on: September 3, 2017, 07:45:03 AM »
I haven't played much with Primaris, but my concern would be that you wouldn't be able to put much antitank on the board and very few heavy weapons overall. Hellblasters are crazy expensive for just having slightly better plasma guns and everybody else just has bolter equivalents.

Offline Cavalier

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Re: Primaris as a Stand Alone Force
« Reply #3 on: September 3, 2017, 08:56:59 AM »
To be honest I played against them and wasn't too impressed. I run a strong contingent of vehicles in my Eldar and the one time I faced a Primaris focused army (Guilliman, 2x Imperial Knights, 3x Primaris marines squads, 2x Reavers, 1x Flying Jump Dudes) they really didn't do much. The Imperial Knights carried the day, but after I popped them and downed Guilliman my opponent called it right then and there even with most of his Primaris alive.

I actually think the standard Marine builds are a bit stronger.

But hey...you know they aren't done with the Primaris Marines by a long shot. Anything they lack, I'm sure they'll be getting. The Primaris Marines are very solid so it might be worth getting in on them now and supplementing with just a few standard Marine things (Devastators or some vehicles). They are brilliant models and look awesome on the tabletop.
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Offline Killersquid

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Re: Primaris as a Stand Alone Force
« Reply #4 on: September 3, 2017, 10:36:36 AM »
I think sisters of battle are very competitive right now. Their acts of faith this edition are very strong. If you already have a sisters army, you might want to consider using them. Celestine is also a beast.

For primaris, I've not seen them on the table too much yet, but the last tournament I went to didn't allow the use of the latest Space Marine codex.

Primaris are a tough faction, with multi-wounds on all models. Their basic troops have rend -1 bolters, which is also really nice. They operate best in rapid fire range of their weapons (so 15" and closer).

With the new chapter traits, they are quite strong and have some very good units. Hellblasters will wreck vehicles in rapid fire range (a 5 man squad putting out 10 Damage 2 shots). You always want to supercharge the plasmaguns and keep a LT or captain nearby to re-roll the 1's to hit.

The only unit I've been disappointed with is the interceptors with the assault bolters. I think they will work really well their plasmaguns instead of the bolters.

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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Primaris as a Stand Alone Force
« Reply #5 on: September 3, 2017, 11:30:24 AM »
I think sisters of battle are very competitive right now. Their acts of faith this edition are very strong. If you already have a sisters army, you might want to consider using them. Celestine is also a beast.

+1 to this. Sisters right now look pretty decent. A damned sight better than Primaris, at least.

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... They operate best in rapid fire range of their weapons (so 15" and closer).

This is true and also the primary *problem* with getting Primaris to work on their own. They work best in rapid fire range, but they have no access to Rhinos, Drop Pods, or Razorbacks. Their only ride is the Repulsor, which is prohibitively expensive.

So you wind up with a bunch of guys who need to get into rapid fire range to get good, but can't actually do that without walking.

Yeah, Hellblasters can wreck vehicles if they get in close, but you can kit out squad of Company Vets with all plasma guns for fewer points and stick them in a drop pod to boot and get more or less the same effect. The Hellblasters have more wounds, but the Company Vets *can actually get into rapid fire range reliably.*

I dig the Primaris models, yeah, but so far the rules haven't backed them up. Regular marines might be a little softer, but they're better at their jobs. Tacs over Intercessors, Assaults/Vanguard over Reivers/Inceptors, and Devs over Hellblasters.   


Offline Killersquid

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Re: Primaris as a Stand Alone Force
« Reply #6 on: September 3, 2017, 11:50:10 AM »
Agreed. They need to get close, but it's hard to get there, unless you take ravenguard and burn through your command points to redeploy amphetamine parrot.

You could load up guys in repulsors (which are phenomenal), but that'd be a very small army.
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Offline laucian_meliamne

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Re: Primaris as a Stand Alone Force
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2017, 03:27:34 PM »
Don't forget that Reivers can deep-strike, and the Aggressors can run and fire their assault weapons without penalty, increasing their mobility slightly.

You're still stuck with footslogging Hellblasters and Intercessors which I agree is less than ideal, but there are a few options available with better mobility.

There's also the Forge World route if you want to go that way.  As I recall (my books are at home, where I am not currently located) most of the FW transport aircraft can carry Primaris models. Obviously that's a big point cost, but might be more effective than loading up on repulsor tanks.

And finally, the Lucious Dreadnought Drop Pod says it can transport any vehicle with the "Dreadnought" keyword. If memory serves, that new gigantic Primaris pseudo-knight is a Dreadnought.... ;)

Offline Wyddr

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Re: Primaris as a Stand Alone Force
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2017, 04:06:44 PM »
Don't forget that Reivers can deep-strike, and the Aggressors can run and fire their assault weapons without penalty, increasing their mobility slightly.

I would say that Aggressors, for that reason, are probably the best Primaris unit out there right now.

Reivers are arguably the worst, though. They're very expensive tarpit units in a game where the enemy can voluntarily fall back from the tarpit.

Offline Killersquid

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Re: Primaris as a Stand Alone Force
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2017, 05:00:13 PM »
Yeah. I can only really see reavers as late game objective grabbers/ backfield annoyance, or to use their stun grenades to eliminate overwatch for a scary unit (so a more dedicated melee unit can swoop in).

Not sure of their cost, but a 5 man squad coming in backfield turn 3  could be valuable.

Can't say I've built many lists for primaris yet.

The ones I do see rely on hellblasters for damage and often include guilliman
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Offline laucian_meliamne

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Re: Primaris as a Stand Alone Force
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2017, 06:31:44 PM »
I agree with Reivers being best with a dedicated CC unit. Unfortunately that's the biggest hole in the Primaris unit selection: they have virtually no high end CC units. Again there's aggressors, but that's a small unit with a handful of powerfists. Hardly a killer CC unit. Especially considering they can't voluntarily fall back to use their shooting.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: Primaris as a Stand Alone Force
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2017, 08:47:08 AM »
Not sure of their cost, but a 5 man squad coming in backfield turn 3  could be valuable.

Yeah, this is kinda what I feel is their best use. They cost as much as intercessors, though, which is a bit much for just a spoiler unit.

Given how much throw-down happens in the first 2 turns of an 8th Ed game, dropping points on late-game strategies seems risky. So many things I'd rather have right off the bat.

 


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