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Author Topic: Codexes on the way  (Read 5053 times)

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Offline Saim-Dann

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Re: Codexes on the way
« Reply #40 on: July 7, 2017, 08:32:33 PM »
G'day, Cavalier!
Please read this question with an enquiring tone, not negative. How much are the index's/codex's in the U.S?

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Codexes on the way
« Reply #41 on: July 7, 2017, 08:39:27 PM »
Indexes are $25. Codex price unsure as not available for preorder. Rulebook is $60.
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Offline Saim-Dann

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Re: Codexes on the way
« Reply #42 on: July 7, 2017, 08:58:31 PM »
G'day Grim!
Is that U.S or New Zealand. Cause there 40 bucks here. 98 for the rule book.

Offline Killersquid

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Re: Codexes on the way
« Reply #43 on: July 7, 2017, 09:01:02 PM »
US

I'll bet the Codex's will be the same price as the AOS Battletomes, so probably $35-40 USD a book (depending on size).
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Codexes on the way
« Reply #44 on: July 7, 2017, 09:07:54 PM »
Yes, As KS said US. In Kiwibucks the indexes would be a rabbit, the rulebook a lamb, and the codex probably a muttonbird or at least the whole tui.
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Offline Saim-Dann

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Re: Codexes on the way
« Reply #45 on: July 7, 2017, 09:26:38 PM »
Thanks both of you!
I like your humour, Grim. A rabbit... Bwahaha!!

Offline Lorizael

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Re: Codexes on the way
« Reply #46 on: July 8, 2017, 08:22:14 PM »
The argument that every publication is an option only goes so far.  For it to be valid, it assumes that everyone who you play against has the same approach to the game as you do.  In view of the diverse nature of players even within small gaming groups, this is unlikely, so unless you only have one opponent who shares your beliefs and philosophy about the game, you end up being sucked into the bloated book and rules environment, in order to be able to play, even if you, as an individual, do not choose to buy any of this material yourself.

Not at all. There was very, very little that added/superseded the core rules. If you were playing a pick up game, your choices are pretty much, do we play Eternal War or Maelstrom missions? Both of which are in the core rulebook. Expansions such as Planetstrike or Cities of Death used different army building templates and were the type of game you would arrange in advance.
Pick up games just play straight out of the rulebook. So rulebook + codex was all that was ever necessary, and all I used for most of my 12 or so armies, whoever and wherever I played. Occasionally I'd add in a campaign book or similar for a particular formation I chose to use.
Personally I'm looking forward to Codices, campaign books and supplements for 8th; anything that gives more options is great. And with 8th's easier way of playing, even better!

So yeah, nah. I know you could always choose to play index armies in the same way I could still choose to play Rogue Trader. Doesn't help with competitive play. There was a deliberate communication breakdown here.

Yeah, communication is interesting. The Community team say interesting things. Occasionally things that directly contradict internal retail briefings and such...

You're right, for competetive play, everyone needs to be on the same page. But competetive play is far outnumbered by the ammount of casual play that goes on. Competetive is not the end-goal.
Looking to AoS again, most tournament packs I've read allow the use of Legacy, Grand Alliance and Battletome warscrolls in lists...

Offline Blazinghand

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Re: Codexes on the way
« Reply #47 on: July 9, 2017, 05:42:32 AM »
I wonder to what extent GW makes money off books vs minis? I've definitely spent a lot more on minis than I have on books over the years. In some sense, though, the books might be "more expensive" for them to make, since they can probably just keep using the same Eldar Falcon molds to make more Falcons, but it takes a lot of time and effort and playtesting etc to come up with the 8e rulebook. At least from a salary perspective, probably more effort and time goes into the books than the boxes of sprues they sell.

I always figured their business model would be best off as "the books are cheap, and the goal is to get you to buy models" but perhaps they want to make money on the books as well.
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Offline Irisado

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Re: Codexes on the way
« Reply #48 on: July 9, 2017, 05:45:06 AM »
Not at all. There was very, very little that added/superseded the core rules. If you were playing a pick up game, your choices are pretty much, do we play Eternal War or Maelstrom missions? Both of which are in the core rulebook. Expansions such as Planetstrike or Cities of Death used different army building templates and were the type of game you would arrange in advance.
Pick up games just play straight out of the rulebook. So rulebook + codex was all that was ever necessary, and all I used for most of my 12 or so armies, whoever and wherever I played. Occasionally I'd add in a campaign book or similar for a particular formation I chose to use.
Personally I'm looking forward to Codices, campaign books and supplements for 8th; anything that gives more options is great. And with 8th's easier way of playing, even better!

Seventh edition was nowhere near that simple, owing to the myriad of formations, alliances, and expansion pieces that a lot of players would bring to the table.  However, this is drifting to far off topic, so there's nothing more that I can say about that here.

Turning back to eighth edition codices, this idea of choice is problematic, since there is such a thing as excessive choice. I'm not looking to choose between an index or a codex in order to play the game.  There should be one book for every army and that's it.  That way everyone is competing on the same playing field, there's no confusion, and nobody ends up feeling as though they are using a less well developed set of rules.  There is already more than enough choice with the different ways to play the game.  There doesn't need to be any more.

GW could have made all the index rules free.  GW could have uploaded all the unit datasheets for free.  That way, charging for the codices so soon after the release of the indices is a lot more reasonable.  Your argument is that the profit margins on books are so small anyway, so if this is the case why didn't they upload free datasheets or make the rules for each index available for free?
« Last Edit: July 9, 2017, 01:47:44 PM by Irisado »
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Codexes on the way
« Reply #49 on: July 9, 2017, 01:35:28 PM »
Yeah, communication is interesting. The Community team say interesting things. Occasionally things that directly contradict internal retail briefings and such...

Then in the words of a famous philosopher - you lot really need to sort your amphetamine parrot out. This is all on you guys and the only ones than can fix and/or make sure it doesn't happen again are the lot of you.
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Offline Lorizael

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Re: Codexes on the way
« Reply #50 on: July 9, 2017, 01:56:53 PM »
Then in the words of a famous philosopher - you lot really need to sort your amphetamine parrot out. This is all on you guys and the only ones than can fix and/or make sure it doesn't happen again are the lot of you.

 ;D ::)
One day... Really, they all just need to listen to me more...

Seventh edition was nowhere near that simple, owing to the myriad of formations, alliances, and expansion pieces that a lot of players would bring to the table.  However, this is drifting to far off topic, so there's nothing more that I can say about that here.

It really was that simple. Take it from someone who actually plays games on a daily basis.
There's rarely anything more you can say about gaming related things. You didn't play 7th, so your opinion is barely relevant. And it's always tainted by your over-arching negativity.

Turning back to eighth edition codices, this idea of choice is problematic, since there is such a thing as excessive choice. I'm, not looking to choose between an index or a codex in order to play the game.  There should be one book for every army and that's it.  That way everyone is competing on the same playing field, there's no confusion, and nobody ends up feeling as though they are using a less well developed set of rules.  There is already more than enough choice with the different ways to play the game.  There doesn't need to be any more.

There should always be more choice. It's what moves the hobby on and stops gaming becoming stagnant.
One book per army? So would you prefer to pay for an updated Codex whenever new models were released, or just not rules for new models..?

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Codexes on the way
« Reply #51 on: July 9, 2017, 02:01:41 PM »
Ah, so we're stuck in a "who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes" scenario. Right. That's that sorted.
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Offline Lorizael

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Re: Codexes on the way
« Reply #52 on: July 9, 2017, 02:06:47 PM »
Ah, so we're stuck in a "who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes" scenario. Right. That's that sorted.

?? :o

Offline Irisado

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Re: Codexes on the way
« Reply #53 on: July 9, 2017, 02:56:59 PM »
It really was that simple. Take it from someone who actually plays games on a daily basis.
There's rarely anything more you can say about gaming related things. You didn't play 7th, so your opinion is barely relevant. And it's always tainted by your over-arching negativity.

Disagreeing with you doesn't equate to negativity.  If I didn't enjoy this hobby, I wouldn't be here ;).  You have a very strong interest to present the product positively at all times.  There is, therefore, a strong element of partiality in everything you post and you're bound to present GW in as positive light as possible.  As a result, I prefer to formulate my own views, based on my reading of topics and having been on this forum on a daily basis, viewing all the topics, even when I haven't been playing.

Quote
There should always be more choice. It's what moves the hobby on and stops gaming becoming stagnant.
One book per army? So would you prefer to pay for an updated Codex whenever new models were released, or just not rules for new models..?

Always having more of something leads to the law of diminishing returns coming into play.  It's extremely difficult, and I would argue impossible, to add more elements of choice without also increasing the layers of complexity.  This is actually one reason why the eighth edition rulebook and indices have been streamlined.  As for stagnation, it depends on the edition of the game.  Fifth edition stagnated very quickly, but sixth came and went so quickly, there was no chance for it to grow remotely stale.  In addition, I've played wargames where the rules either do not change or only ever have minor updates, so there are different schools of thought on this.

My preferences are simple.  I want fairness.  The approach that GW adopted, on this occasion, simply isn't fair to those people who purchased the indices.

Finally, allow me to pose the crucial question to you again:

GW could have made all the index rules free.  GW could have uploaded all the unit datasheets for free.  That way, charging for the codices so soon after the release of the indices is a lot more reasonable.  Your argument is that the profit margins on books are so small anyway, so if this is the case why didn't they upload free datasheets or make the rules for each index available for free?

I understand that you're reluctant to answer this, but I would like to hear your personal answer, rather than an echoing of the corporate line :).
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Offline Lt_PliskinAJ

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Re: Codexes on the way
« Reply #54 on: July 10, 2017, 10:05:29 AM »
I figured they would come out with proper codexes soon but like most people I wanted to play now. I picked up imperial 1/2 and FW forces of AM for my DKOK as digital copies. Saved a few dollars and got them all for 20 each.

Was I expecting proper rules this early, actually yeah I was. This is the same company that made the knight titan book that has 2 data sheets in it. I'm not minding the indexes as it will also probably help people new to the game as they can look at several armies in one book and then decide.

Offline SKEETERGOD

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Re: Codexes on the way
« Reply #55 on: July 12, 2017, 11:36:49 AM »
I for one will be buying the ork codex when it comes out. The new Xenos 2 book left out quite a few ork units that I use(d). For one my 'ard boys have ceased to exist as well as my looted wagons and a few other things that were a lot of fun and the reason I play orks.

Unlike others (that I perceive take this game waaaaay to serious) I play for fun. I play orks because we never lose. (if you don't get the reference then head on over to the ork board for enlightenment) Also the orks were great at looting other armies stuff. Thus the looted wagon, etc.

(note: click on picture for full size view)

  

That is the fun part of playing orks and the new game seems to want to make orks a "serious" army. I still play for fun, I quit doing tourneys as it got to be "not fun" as well as most of the players I met at tourney seemed to have a serious lack of a sense of humor.

I used to play Saim Hann eldar, and when it got to where it was more work than reward I switched  to orks. Orks are just fun to play. My Eldar army sits is a bag in the garage gathering dust for the last 8 or 9 years, but they were my first army and so I hesitate to part with them.

If the new GW wants to take all the fun out of the game then I guess I will be relegated to being just a collector. Then my ork army will sit in the garage in a large box gathering dust, reminding me of the fun I used to have.
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Offline Saim-Dann

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Re: Codexes on the way
« Reply #56 on: July 12, 2017, 11:56:58 AM »
We play for fun as well, Skeet!
We'd just have more fun if we spent less on 2 books, Index/Codex, and more on models.
I quite like the Ork section in the Index. Am perfectly happy not to be facing Ard Boyz, and you know my feeling on Looted, blessed, Wagons...Be well!

Offline magenb

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Re: Codexes on the way
« Reply #57 on: July 17, 2017, 06:32:47 PM »
Raven Guard

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Err what the ... "Shadow Masters" better not be an army wide thing, that would be game breaking.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: Codexes on the way
« Reply #58 on: July 17, 2017, 06:49:42 PM »
Raven Guard

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Err what the ... "Shadow Masters" better not be an army wide thing, that would be game breaking.

Looks pretty army-wide to me. Game breaking? I dunno. But it will certainly make them harder to blast away from a distance. Some armies won't be able to cope, for sure.

*Still* not looking like the Tau's edition.

Offline magenb

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Re: Codexes on the way
« Reply #59 on: July 17, 2017, 06:58:17 PM »
Raven Guard

Chapter Focus: Raven Guard – Warhammer Community

Err what the ... "Shadow Masters" better not be an army wide thing, that would be game breaking.

Looks pretty army-wide to me. Game breaking? I dunno. But it will certainly make them harder to blast away from a distance. Some armies won't be able to cope, for sure.

*Still* not looking like the Tau's edition.




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Warhammer 40,000  The Raven Guard would have found a way to make their vehicles quiet. No FAQ needed for this - it's pretty clear!


-------------------------

So yeah looks company wide, trying to find out if it stacks with their fliers and sniper cloaks.

Flamer and Dark Reapers just got a lot better lol. Doesn't change too much for Short ranged Eldar I guess, but sucks for Tau, then against Tau might get some equally insane bonus... hmmm wasn't this one of the reason we all hated 7th ed...

I can only hope they have increased the points for all of their stuff.


 


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