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Author Topic: The Imperial Guard in 8th  (Read 3822 times)

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Online Calamity

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #20 on: June 7, 2017, 01:26:36 PM »
I really think sniper rifles need D3 damage.  Especially with zero AP, mortal wounds or not.  But this aside, ratlings are looking pretty sweet now.  We just need a plastic kit with a leader model and a vox caster and we're in!  ;D

EDIT:

It's closest equivalent in AoS, the hochland long rifle, does 2 damage.  How about that as a compromise?
« Last Edit: June 7, 2017, 01:30:49 PM by Captain Calamity »

Offline Wyddr

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #21 on: June 7, 2017, 02:06:31 PM »
2 damage is actually better than 1d3 damage *most* of the time. If you consistently do 2 damage over a long period of time and compare it to doing 1d3 damage, the 2s will net you about 25% more wounds done.

It is for this reason that Autocannons may still be worth it and that I'll be firing my plasma on overcharge whenever possible. It is also the reason why Bullgryns with Mauls and slabshields sound like great counter-charge units.

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #22 on: June 7, 2017, 03:58:33 PM »
I think leman Russes have a new lease on life. Super tough. I'd take them with 3 heavy flamers and burn the amphetamine parrot out of things and then battle Cannon something else.

The fact you can fire different weapons at different targets is really sweet.

Earthshaker cannons look amazing, as do the manticore.

Bullgrins look like a lot of fun too.

Even rough riders look like they would be fun to use and pretty amazing.

I'd definitely want to run a huge screen of conscripts with a commissar nearby 'encuraging' them
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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #23 on: June 7, 2017, 05:53:53 PM »
@ Wyddr

D3 it is then!  A possible 3 wounds and 1 mortal wound from one rifle though...is that too much?  :-\

@ Killersquid

Yes it's all great isn't it!  Though I hear that the battle Cannon struggles to reliably inflict damage.  But at least the tanks are a serious contender now.

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #24 on: June 7, 2017, 06:16:28 PM »
@ Wyddr

D3 it is then!  A possible 3 wounds and 1 mortal wound from one rifle though...is that too much?  :-\

Not if the models are triple the price lol. Ratlings are great for the price (dirt cheap). Any better their guns get, means the models should be more valuable too.


Yes it's all great isn't it!  Though I hear that the battle Cannon struggles to reliably inflict damage.  But at least the tanks are a serious contender now.

Has a random number of hits, but those hits hit hard, great for targeting multi-wound models. And when it also has 3d6 heavy flamer hits, it's going to be all aboard to the pain train.
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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #25 on: June 7, 2017, 07:05:17 PM »
Triple Heavy Flamers looks nice. The Battlecannon? Meh. At that modest BS, you just aren't going to connect that often, and 1d3 dmg, while nice, isn't a game changer. When we factor in the new toughness chart, the whole affair seems mediocre.

The Earthshaker is a bit better and has the distinction of being cheaper and stronger. I'll need to test it out a bit, but again you're only looking at 2-3 dead infantry a volley or 3-4 wounds done to a vehicle/monster. Meh.

If you're facing crisis suits/termies/bikes or other mid-range multiwound models, that will be handy, but it won't be great elsewhere. Blast weapons have weirdly become pretty bad against most infantry.

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #26 on: June 8, 2017, 06:20:59 AM »
If 40k had AoS's spill over damage mechanic then the new blast weapons would be pretty good against hordes.  But since excess damage other than mortal wounds doesn't carry over, that damage is wasted on 1 wound models.

Lets say you manage to score three hits on a unit of space marines (which statistically means that you got lucky and rolled a 6), those will likely turn into three wounds, but with it's AP, you're likely to only kill two.  There's no point rolling for damage either.

I'm reluctant to criticize them because apparently they play tested the hell out of it but I think some units (the battle cannon Russ for example) need a little work.  But the good news is, the mechanics are sound.  They just need tweaking.  Before it was hopeless.

And what I always try to keep in the back of my mind is, the days of simply deleting units via shooting are over.  They had to stop it.  So I don't want to make a battle cannon too dangerous.  Especially since the Russ can happily shoot all of it's other weapons too.

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #27 on: June 8, 2017, 08:29:42 AM »
I can see what you're saying, but on the other hand, I'm a guy who has played armies that "delete units via shooting" as their exclusive tactical option (Imperial Guard, Tau, Thousand Sons), and have done so for years and years. You'll pardon me if I'm a little grouchy that now I need to figure out how to get Tau to weather assault just so the Dark Eldar feel better about themselves.

I'm sure it will work out in the end, but it's all looking like a lot of my models are getting shelved just because they can no longer do the job assigned.
« Last Edit: June 8, 2017, 10:02:31 AM by Wyddr »

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #28 on: June 8, 2017, 10:11:04 AM »
Well if it's any consolation, the new system means that things can be fixed quickly.  I hear Tau are still pretty deadly though.

If the battle cannon took a leaf out of the Earthshakers book and picked the highest result out of two 2D6 then maybe that would be acceptable.

Also, the Vanquisher is a bit mediocre too.  And weirdly, the Genestealer cults have a better one, with access to better smoke launchers too!  :o 

Their one has higher strength.  Maybe they're using their connections to siphon off the best shells for themselves.

I would take the cultist statline for the Vank, but it's best for the IG smoke launchers rule to be used.  Get onto it GW!

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #29 on: June 8, 2017, 11:33:48 AM »
Also, the Vanquisher is a bit mediocre too.  And weirdly, the Genestealer cults have a better one, with access to better smoke launchers too!  :o 

Yeah, the Vanquisher is really pretty bad at the moment. I certainly wouldn't take one.

My takes on the Leman Russ variants at the moment:

-The Punisher is actually totally fine. It lost the ability to move and shoot everything without penalty, but it's only a scant few points more expensive and basically just as effective as it ever was. It won't be glancing Rhinos to death anymore, but no huge loss there.

-The Demolisher is pretty bad now, simply because the main gun is, on balance, no stronger than the Battlecannon (double the damage except half the shots at 1/3 the range) except in the rare instances you're shooting at more than 5 T5 multiwound models. Which, sure, that might happen sometimes, but often?

-The Executioner (with Plasma sponsons) is now only usable if you make it a tank commander and fire on Overcharge all the time (while using the re-roll order). Yes, it will probably still explode, but at least it can kick out a decent amount of damage before it does.

-The Exterminator is a cheaper, more reliable, but less potent form of the Executioner, basically.

-The LRBT, stock, is okay, but as mentioned the Battle Cannon is fairly "meh." It isn't terrible, but I think you might be better off with a Basilisk. Depends on how useful you feel the sponsons would be. I can see driving one around as a Heavy Flamer caddy, I guess.

-The Eradicator is pretty terrible now. Ignoring cover at it's AP is really not that much better than the Battlecannon in any way, except lower strength and shorter range. 

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #30 on: June 8, 2017, 11:42:38 AM »
I agree, all around.  I'll have to wait until I get the book but I think I'll be returning to the forge.

Oh, and it turns out Wyrdvane Pyskers are still crap.  And they aren't in the IG list anymore either, along with the telepath and the primarus.

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #31 on: June 8, 2017, 12:28:06 PM »
I agree, all around.  I'll have to wait until I get the book but I think I'll be returning to the forge.

Oh, and it turns out Wyrdvane Pyskers are still crap.  And they aren't in the IG list anymore either, along with the telepath and the primarus.

Oh, man the Astropath is pure gold. A psyker for that cheap? He can't cast Smite worth a damn, but for the price it's a damned bargain. He still gets access to one of the other powers and can still attempt to deny enemy powers AND he can deny cover saves. Too cheap *not* to take!

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #32 on: June 8, 2017, 05:01:41 PM »
I know I plan on jumping back into 40k with IG. I have I think 7+ sentinels (They have been in a box for years) ready to use again and they just were rarely used because I would rather have Helhound or Valks in my force.

From the leaks I couldn't tell but did they get rid of the top hatch rule of the Chimera? Either way I have played essentially the same army of IG now for 3 editions. Time for a bit of change.

Loosing the template is a bit hit for me as I loved killing 70+% of a marine squad with a well placed demo charge or battle tank round but while I loved it I could see my opponents die inside and they put up their whole squad. Likewise I would have people spend forever spreading out their squads to a maximum in an attempt to weather the storm of pie plates making me wish I was watching paint dry.

With the new rules for moving and shooting I think bolter boats might be a thing again. Heck artillery basically became a burst fire HK missile so that will be different.

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #33 on: June 8, 2017, 05:34:41 PM »
Nothing that I've seen allows shooting out Chimera hatches, no. A bit of a loss, but not the end of the world. Biggest issue is Chimeras cost 50% more.

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #34 on: June 8, 2017, 07:14:19 PM »
If 40k had AoS's spill over damage mechanic then the new blast weapons would be pretty good against hordes.  But since excess damage other than mortal wounds doesn't carry over, that damage is wasted on 1 wound models.


While that is true, there are a few horde units that really benefit ( :o) from a battle cannon's attention.

For example, razorwing flocks - A max sized flock is looking at 32 wounds over 8 models.

Or a Ripper swarm... 27 wounds over 9 models.

Your Battle cannon will just about erase either of those squads, and the other weapons on the vehicles are gonna be able to shoot at whatever they want to and not waste shoots too.

These weapons have different targets now. If they are worthwile or not is still yet to be seen.
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #35 on: June 8, 2017, 08:06:35 PM »
Ultimately that becomes a matter of metagame. If multiwound small models become commonplace, then the Battlecannon and Demolisher are back in. We'll see if it happens, though. Rippers/Nurglings/Razorwings/Scarabs are a bit of a niche.

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #36 on: June 8, 2017, 08:35:51 PM »
I know a considerable number of DE players are looking at razor-wing flocks. They are quite cheap, and can easily be used to act as a screen unit for a umber of things.

That is what I think most of these swarm units will be used for - screening units. Area denial. Quick charges to tie up shooting units. Smite absorbers.

Being able to look at a unit of that and erase it will really mess with an opponents plans.

It will be very interesting to see what meta develops.
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

 


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