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Author Topic: The Imperial Guard in 8th  (Read 3582 times)

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Offline Calamity

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The Imperial Guard in 8th
« on: June 4, 2017, 06:29:44 AM »
I don't know if anyone here saw any of the IG leaks but in my opinion we're going to be in a strong place at the start of 8th edition.  8)

I'll refrain from mentioning specific leaks but the general theme is that a lot of units which would never seen the light of day before are going to see a lot more action. 

There's some changes I wasn't keen on but these are far outweighed by the positive.  We're going to be fine.  :D

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #1 on: June 4, 2017, 09:39:08 AM »
It's pulling some of us out of retirement, that's for sure! My store has the indices on preview, and it warms the cockles of my heart that we may be rewarded for returning to a very 3rd Edition playstyle.
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Offline Killersquid

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #2 on: June 4, 2017, 09:40:36 AM »
The deathstrike missile looks like a hilarious weapon to use.
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Offline Calamity

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #3 on: June 4, 2017, 10:59:28 AM »
Yeah it all looks great doesn't it!  :D

I like how storm troopers are looking these days, plus tanks are now viable.  And it's kind of funny how commissars now help prevent you removing moraless models.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #4 on: June 4, 2017, 09:21:19 PM »
Guard infantry got better, overall. Conscripts look pretty good if you include a commissar and a priest. Stormtroopers got more reliable, etc.

I think ratlings look useable, but they don't do enough damage to make them especially good at killing characters. This is true for all snipers, though.

Ogryns are disappointing, frankly. Really wanted to like them, but I don't.

The tanks look a lot tougher, but I'm not convinced their firepower justifies their cost in most cases. The Hellhound looks good, the Hydra looks awful, etc.

The thing that came out best is probably the Taurox. Looks better than the Chimera at this point.

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #5 on: June 4, 2017, 10:37:11 PM »
I think ratlings look useable, but they don't do enough damage
I don't know about that.  The chances for them to kick out Mortal Wounds in addition to their regular is pretty damn spiffy.  Hell, that's what convinced me to pick up Scouts for my Dark Angels.
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Offline Calamity

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #6 on: June 5, 2017, 06:21:38 AM »
Ratlings can now single out characters and can dish out mortal wounds to boot.  That's going to be incredibly useful.

Also there's already talk that deepstriking plasma scions are going to define the meta game.  Dare I dream that we could be heading back to the heydays of 5th?

Offline Wyddr

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #7 on: June 5, 2017, 06:29:01 AM »
Run the numbers, guys. Most characters are sporting 4+ wounds, so:

10 ratlings = 6 hits = 3 wounds + 1 mortal = (assuming a decent save) = 2 wounds done.

A 5 or 6-wound character won't go down for three turns unless you're lucky. And that's with a full squad of the little guys. Annoying, sure, but any character with a few defensive boosts is going to get in combat/do what he needs to before you gun him down.

Offline Calamity

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #8 on: June 5, 2017, 06:50:24 AM »
Well to that I say that's what orders are for.  They're automatic now.  Give them those rerolls.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #9 on: June 5, 2017, 07:07:54 AM »
Okay, let's: 10 shots, 6 hits, re-roll 2 (optimistically) = 7 hit-ish and...the math stays basically the same. You boost your odds only a negligible amount.

You're in the exact same situation unless you happen to luck out on more 6s.

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #10 on: June 5, 2017, 07:21:27 AM »
Spoil sport.  :P

Well, my suggestion then is that sniper rifles need 2 damage.  Regular damage doesn't carry over so it's not too broken.  But that's the advantage of having a living rulebook.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #11 on: June 5, 2017, 08:28:18 AM »
I think sniper rifles should do 1d3 damage, myself. It seems silly that you'd need 30 snipers to kill one boss-guy.

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #12 on: June 5, 2017, 10:40:26 AM »
Snipers shouldn't be too good, or no one will be able to take characters. I think damage 1 is fine for them. Especially if there is a chance for mortal wounds.

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Offline Wyddr

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #13 on: June 5, 2017, 10:45:31 AM »
Snipers shouldn't be too good, or no one will be able to take characters. I think damage 1 is fine for them. Especially if there is a chance for mortal wounds.

Granted, but if snipers only have 1 ostensible job and they aren't very good at that job, people aren't going to take many of them at all.

Like, seriously, if I need something to kill a character, I'd probably be better off using conventional weapons to blow away the unit or two standing between me and the character than paying points (and slots) for a crap ton of "specialists" who can't actually fulfill their specialty with any reasonable regularity.

Why use an elite slot for ratlings when you can use a Scions squad to drop right next to a character and blow him away with plasma guns? Granted, the ratlings can target the character more easily, but at an opportune moment you can get the Scions to do the job in one shot. And even if they don't get the opportunity, you can actually get the scions to do other things that are also useful. Pinging a mortal wound every six wounds in a world where everything has a billion wounds is not that amazing.

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #14 on: June 5, 2017, 11:20:42 AM »
My main concern about making snipers better, is that they don't cost a lot of points. A 5 man squad of ratlings is less then 50pts. That they can do mortal wounds and pick out characters at that points cost is fantastic.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #15 on: June 5, 2017, 11:35:37 AM »
My main concern about making snipers better, is that they don't cost a lot of points. A 5 man squad of ratlings is less then 50pts. That they can do mortal wounds and pick out characters at that points cost is fantastic.

I'll agree that they are fairly pointed for their abilities. My point is that their abilities are not all that spectacular. They are about 50 points worth of spectacular.

I'm just tired of snipers who suck, is all.

Offline Killersquid

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #16 on: June 5, 2017, 11:43:14 AM »
I don't think a unit needs to one hit kill everything to be good. If ratlings do one or two wounds to any character, the player will have to be more cautious with it.

Also, mortal wounds means that these guys are fantastic for plinking the last wounds or two off of monsters and vehicles.

Being less then 100pts for 10 of them, these would be an auto include if I played guard.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #17 on: June 5, 2017, 12:18:55 PM »
I don't think a unit needs to one hit kill everything to be good. If ratlings do one or two wounds to any character, the player will have to be more cautious with it.

Also, mortal wounds means that these guys are fantastic for plinking the last wounds or two off of monsters and vehicles.

Being less then 100pts for 10 of them, these would be an auto include if I played guard.

I'm not really asking for 1-hit kills. I'm just asking for a team of 5 snipers to have a plausible chance of taking out a character (say, 50/50) in 2 turns of shooting or less. If you aren't going to give them any AP or much Str, you could *at least* let them do a consistent amount of damage. The slot-machine style of play here turns me off a lot, since I never seem to roll freaking 6s when they would be useful.

To pivot the discussion though: How about them Wyverns, eh? At least *some* anti-infantry blasts have kept their teeth. (also a shout-out to Manticores).

I'm thinking that Battlecannons/Demolishers/Basilisks will be of greater use against large models than against infantry. This seems ass-backwards to me, but that's what the numbers seems to say. Rather take the odds of doing 2-6 wounds to a vehicle than kill 2 infantry, you know? 

Edit: I was going through the numbers last night. It really shouldn't be very hard to get a full battalion formation in a list. I guess whether you do or not depends on how much you like a ton of command points.
« Last Edit: June 6, 2017, 09:01:39 AM by Wyddr »

Offline Talon Undecided

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #18 on: June 7, 2017, 04:27:47 AM »
The Ratlings do another job in the game - they occupy the midfield from turn 1 so that enemy units that attempt to arrive within 9" of the main gunline has to contend with them there.

Same thing for Scout Sentinels, imo. But I've had a soft spot for counter-infiltrating Ratlings since 3rd Ed.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: The Imperial Guard in 8th
« Reply #19 on: June 7, 2017, 06:03:39 AM »
That's a good point and I've used Ratlings (and other infiltrators) the same way before. They're so cheap, it makes them particularly good at it.

Just wish they had better guns, is all.
« Last Edit: June 7, 2017, 01:56:31 PM by Wyddr »

 


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