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Author Topic: 8th Edition Weapon Stats Speculation  (Read 1676 times)

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Offline Wyddr

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8th Edition Weapon Stats Speculation
« on: May 8, 2017, 10:09:49 AM »
Okay, so I'm going to post a series of guesses here on what I think will *possibly* happen with the new weapon stats. I'm doing this based on nothing but the preexisting weapon stats we already know (Bolter, Flamer, Lascannon) and what I think would mirror the weapon's intended purpose. I'm curious to see, once the edition is released, how right or wrong I was. Feel free to play along: post your guesses and we'll see, in the end, who is the closest.

I'm going to focus just on Imperial weapons at the moment.

Lasgun: as is, AP 0, D 1
Multilaser: as is, AP -1, D d3

Heavy Bolter: as is, AP -2, D 1
Autocannon: as is, AP -2, D d3
Battlecannon: as is, Ordnance 2d6, AP -3, D d3
Demolisher Cannon: as is, Ordnance 2d6, AP -4, D d6

Plasma Gun: as is, AP -3, D 1
Plasma Cannon: as is, Heavy 1d6, AP -3, D d3

Krak Grenade (Thrown): as is, 8", AP -2, D d3
Frag Grenade (Thrown): as is, 8", Assault d6, AP 0, D 1
Krak Grenade (Launcher): as is, AP -2, D d3
Frag Grenade (Launcher): as is, Assault d6, AP 0, D 1
Krak Missile: 48", as is, AP -3, D d6
Frag Missile: 48", as is, Heavy d6, AP -1, D 1

Hunter-Killer Missile: as is, AP -3, D d6 (re-roll to wound)

Meltagun: as is, AP -4, D d6 (Re-roll to wound under half range)
Multimelta: as is, AP -4, D d6 (Re-roll to wound under half range)
Meltabombs: (Close Combat), Str 8, AP -4, D d6 (Re-roll to wound)

Heavy Flamer: 8", Assault d6, Str 5, AP -2, D 1 (Auto hit, ignores cover)

Grav Gun: as is, Rapid Fire 2, AP -3, D 1 (wounds on armor save)
Grav Cannon: as is, Rapid Fire 3, AP -3, D 1 (wounds on armor save)

Sniper Rifle: as is, Str 4, AP -1, D d3 (+1 to hit)


Some notes on rationale:
I think blast weapons might (and probably should) simply work under the assumption that you get a random number of shots and then roll to hit as normal. The 1D6 for small blasts and 2D6 for large blasts should pretty much even out to the kind of damage these weapons usually do anyway (1-2 hits for smalls, 3-5 hits for larges) with occasionally swings in luck.

I also think we might see the end of Salvo weapons. I only say this because I found the rules for them needlessly fiddly. More likely just make them Rapid Fire with a number attached. Double shots under half range, regular shots otherwise. I wouldn't be that surprised if Grav Amps went away, too.

Anyway, those are my guesses thus far.

Minor edits made - Iris.

   
« Last Edit: May 8, 2017, 12:27:25 PM by Wyddr »

Offline Irisado

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Re: 8th Edition Weapon Stats Speculation
« Reply #1 on: May 8, 2017, 10:21:34 AM »
Please can everyone only post stats which are different to those in any of the current books or other GW material.  Any stats which are the same cannot be posted, for example, 'Lasgun current stats, but with AP0 damage 1'.  Thank you.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: 8th Edition Weapon Stats Speculation
« Reply #2 on: May 8, 2017, 12:25:48 PM »
Added back in Grav gun and Blast Weapon stats, as those are in no way "as is."


Offline Irisado

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Re: 8th Edition Weapon Stats Speculation
« Reply #3 on: May 8, 2017, 12:33:51 PM »
No problem, as I was guessing in some places.

Katamari Damacy reminded me of one of the Stacannon revisions that was discussed for the Eldar redux, and I'm going to speculate that it's either going to receive a strength boost or a damage boost or maybe even both.  I'm wondering whether +1 strength to its current profile and D3 damage is a possibility.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: 8th Edition Weapon Stats Speculation
« Reply #4 on: May 8, 2017, 01:38:41 PM »
I would honestly expect most weapons with a "Heavy" designation that aren't *explicitly* anti-infantry to do a D3 wounds at least. If big models are going to be walking around with over a dozen wounds, that pretty much has to happen in order to equalize things.

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: 8th Edition Weapon Stats Speculation
« Reply #5 on: May 8, 2017, 06:33:17 PM »
I'd like to see blast weapons get a bit of compensation for what they are losing. Currently a large blast can hit multiple squads, if positioned right. Under the new rules, from what I have seen, they loose this.

I would like to see most blast weapons still roll to hit. On a hit, they score (fixed number) + (random number of hits). On a miss they only score random number. A roll of a 1 counts a dud and nothing happens at all.

So a small blast could be D6 + 3, and a large, d6 + 6, while apocalyptic could be d6 + 9! or some such craziness.


For Barage weapons, allow them to fire all their blasts as split fire. For Ordnance, give it multiple damage. A d6 +9 d3 wounds hitting a Gorgaunt would really hurt!

So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: 8th Edition Weapon Stats Speculation
« Reply #6 on: May 8, 2017, 07:39:09 PM »
I don't think they're going to do anything as complicated as that. Frankly, I'm worried blast weapons are going to wind up seriously underpowered. What I've laid out seems fair to me, though 1d3/1d6 autohits *might* be acceptable.

Offline Fenris

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Re: 8th Edition Weapon Stats Speculation
« Reply #7 on: May 9, 2017, 02:45:04 AM »
I don't know the current values of all those imperial weapons so I will add a couple of eldar weapons to my list:

Lasgun: as is, AP 0, 1
Heavy Bolter: as is, AP -1, 1
Plasma Gun: as is, AP -3, D3
Melta Gun: as is, AP-4, D6 (re-roll D6('s) vs Vehicles, within melta range = 2D6)

Shuriken catapult: as is, AP -1, 1
Shuriken Cannon: as is, AP-1, 1
Scatter Laser: heavy D6+1, AP 0, 1


Krak Grenade (Thrown): as is, Sx2", AP -2, 1
Frag Grenade (Thrown): S as is, Assault D3+1, Sx2", AP 0, 1
Plasma Grenade (Thrown): S as is, Assault D3+1, Sx2", AP -1, 1

Krak Missile: as is, AP -3, 1 (D3 against large models)
Plasma Missile: as is, Heavy D6, AP -2, 1
Frag Missile: as is,  Heavy d6, AP -1, 1

Heavy Flamer: 8", Assault d6, Str 5, AP -1, D 1 (Auto hit)

Sniper Rifle: as is, AP 0, 1 (6' to hit = mortal wound, -2 to wound against vehicles, -1 to wound against MC/GC's, ignores cover.)

« Last Edit: May 9, 2017, 02:46:42 AM by Fenris »
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: 8th Edition Weapon Stats Speculation
« Reply #8 on: May 9, 2017, 09:43:31 AM »
I really hope some AP4 weapons get a -2 save mod, mostly because without that, the autocannon will probably sink back into uselessness (where it dwelt for all of 3rd, 4th, and 5th editions). You can't shoot a dread or a rhino while wounding on 4s (at best) and have it save on 4s and still have it be useful. I guess a lot of that depends on the stats on things like Rhinos, but still, given what we've seen thus far...

I'm torn on whether Plasma guns will do multiple wounds or not. I'm mostly saying just the 1 Dmg because of 2nd Edition, where it did only 1 damage.

About USRs
I think we're going to see an end to a *lot* of weapon-specific universal special rules. On the one hand, the game is being streamlined and a lot of special rules are either needlessly complex or pointless given the new system. On the other hand, special rules are probably going to be possessed by the models (through keywords) more than the weapons themselves.

So, rules I think are going away:

-Concussive
-Strikedown
-Soul Blaze
-Sniper
-Precision Shots
-Pinning
-Ordnance (I'll explain)
-Split Fire (obviously)
-Force
-Rending

I think some of those are just stupid rules that nobody wants or needs (Concussive, Strikedown, Soul Blaze) and others can easily be accounted for by the basic weapon statline by having them do more damage or something (Sniper, Force, Rending). Some are rendered irrelevant or will probably be unit-specific rather than weapon specific (Split Fire, Precision Shots).

I think Pinning is probably gone, unless the Go To Ground mechanic stays (in which case it *might* stay), but given how Ld is changing, I don't see how it fits.

I think Ordnance stands decent odds of just being implemented by giving weapons a higher strength or doing more damage and it will cease to be its own rule (and it was always kind of a dumb rule, anyway).

Personally, I'd really like to see Gets Hot go away, but I don't think it will (we seem pretty attached to seeing our models kill themselves with their own expensive weapons for some reason).

I think Blast weapons will just have variable numbers of "shots" and not a unique keyword. I'd guess that Barrage weapons will stay, but it'll take the form of a -1 BS or something when shooting a target out of LOS (and that will save a hell of a lot of time over all the blast template flipping you need to do with multiple barrages).

I think it will be really interesting to see what happens with Poison/Fleshbane/Armorbane. We obviously *can't* have Venoms going around wounding everything on 4s, so there's an argument there that says the rule vanishes (at least as we currently understand it). What it gets replaced with and how is very interesting. Likewise, it seems likely Armorbane will just get a higher strength and better AP or something.   

« Last Edit: May 9, 2017, 09:46:05 AM by Wyddr »

Offline Fenris

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Re: 8th Edition Weapon Stats Speculation
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2017, 10:50:25 AM »
Looks like I was spot on with the heavy bolter and very close with the melta gun:
New Warhammer 40,000: Weapons Part 2 – Warhammer Community
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: 8th Edition Weapon Stats Speculation
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2017, 11:03:40 AM »
Well done!

I was personally hoping AP 4 would net a -2 mod, mostly because of the Autocannon, Missile Pods, and all kinds of AP4 weapons that are ostensibly supposed to kill tanks (and which they cannot, now, kill). Ah, well.

My meltagun prediction was more-or-less accurate, too, though they chose to re-roll the damage done rather than the to-wound roll. Not sure which I would prefer, but I'm guessing it comes out in the wash in the end.

VERY disappointed in what they're doing to large blasts. That objectively sucks. I guess Battle Cannons are now anti-tank weapons, primarily.

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: 8th Edition Weapon Stats Speculation
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2017, 11:05:19 AM »
Looks like I was spot on with the heavy bolter and very close with the melta gun:
New Warhammer 40,000: Weapons Part 2 – Warhammer Community
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Except you missed the 6 shots!
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: 8th Edition Weapon Stats Speculation
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2017, 11:07:27 AM »
That's for a *twin-linked* heavy bolter (which gets double). Presumably the lone Hvy Bolter will get just the ordinary 3.

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Re: 8th Edition Weapon Stats Speculation
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2017, 11:19:46 AM »
That's for a *twin-linked* heavy bolter (which gets double). Presumably the lone Hvy Bolter will get just the ordinary 3.
For some reason I read "at half range" in there.  That's what you get for reading an article on your phone without zooming in right after you wake up without your glasses.

Ignore me lol


I found out where the confusion came from.  When I first read the article this morning, they had Twin-Linked weapons described as double shots at half range.  They have since updated the article. 

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« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 11:30:40 AM by Grand Master Lomandalis »
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