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Author Topic: Pistols also New Tau  (Read 5509 times)

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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Pistols also New Tau
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2017, 02:01:34 PM »
Saviour Protocols sounds useful to avoid some of the morale losses. Nice movement on the drones too. Yeah, markerlights are definitely just a big whoop these days. Useless there's more in the other datasheets I'll be cutting back on them quite significantly.
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Offline Roboknee77

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Re: Pistols also New Tau
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2017, 02:16:17 PM »
It looks like they also closed the unlimited range supporting fire flamer overwatch loophole.  Now they only auto-hit units that come into range of the flamers, according to the faction focus.

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Pistols also New Tau
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2017, 04:42:18 PM »
It looks like they also closed the unlimited range supporting fire flamer overwatch loophole.  Now they only auto-hit units that come into range of the flamers, according to the faction focus.
That doesn't really address the rules for overwatch as it could still allow flamers to hit units charging regardless of distance.
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Pistols also New Tau
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2017, 07:42:28 PM »
Yes, in order to charge a unit, you kinda need to get within 8" of it.

Granted, you can't piggyback Supporting Fire from 12" away from the charged unit anymore, but that really doesn't fix the problem.

Trust me, Roboknee--I'll be able to flame your incoming orks anytime I damned well please.

The bright side for orks, however, is that there is no jump-back move, making my suits easier to engage.

Which is why they'll all have flamers...
Which now do 1D6 autohits in overwatch...
:-\

Offline Wyddr

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Re: Pistols also New Tau
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2017, 09:09:52 AM »
Well, some more Tau info has leaked. (search around or go check out that place with the bell)

Seems like Crisis Suits get another wound and a point of Toughness (yay!), but will cost a bit more to field and, of course, have lost Jump-shoot-jump (boo!).

Rail-weapons have a miniscule chance to cause Mortal Wounds, which is *nice,* but not precisely ground breaking. That said, Hammerheads have gotten a pretty sweet boost overall.

On the weapon stats in general, large blasts have gotten a nerf whereas small blasts get a boost (same as everywhere, I guess). Ion weapons seem to be doing steady damage, but can cause Mortal wounds if overcharged (I'm guessing not as many people will be doing that anymore).

The weird thing? Stormsurges look like they're going to cost much less to field. Like, cheap as a bare-bones Riptide (whereas Riptides are going to cost about the same as they do now with options). This seems wildly out of whack to me. Perhaps Stormsurges aren't as tough in this new world?

Oh, yes, and Vespid finally got an additional shot with their neutron blasters, so maybe (maybe) they'll see the table someday soon. 

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Pistols also New Tau
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2017, 10:45:58 AM »
The thing to keep in mind for the point costs is that the cost for the model does not include the cost of weapons.

So the storm surge might be cheap at a base cost, but you have to add the cost of the weapons still, which will make up for it.  Even if it is the stock weapons.
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Pistols also New Tau
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2017, 11:37:57 AM »
The thing to keep in mind for the point costs is that the cost for the model does not include the cost of weapons.

So the storm surge might be cheap at a base cost, but you have to add the cost of the weapons still, which will make up for it.  Even if it is the stock weapons.

Yeah, but couldn't you then just take bare-bones unequipped Stormsurges (god knows why) and cause weird, weird mischief?

This whole mechanic (and the way it's being laid out) seems super, super strange.

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Pistols also New Tau
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2017, 03:15:12 PM »
The thing to keep in mind for the point costs is that the cost for the model does not include the cost of weapons.

So the storm surge might be cheap at a base cost, but you have to add the cost of the weapons still, which will make up for it.  Even if it is the stock weapons.

Yeah, but couldn't you then just take bare-bones unequipped Stormsurges (god knows why) and cause weird, weird mischief?

This whole mechanic (and the way it's being laid out) seems super, super strange.
It depends on how the unit selection is worded.  Most that I have seen so far list it as "has x weapons, y weapons, or z weapons." So that would be telling you that right off the bat you must pay for those weapons.
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
Well I always liked the globals...
I knew I had fans!!!

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"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline Wyddr

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Re: Pistols also New Tau
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2017, 03:24:40 PM »
So...why not just include the cost of those weapons in the base cost? A lot of those weapons are exclusive to the chassis, so it seems odd to leave them as separate costs.

My initial response to the way they're laying out the Matched Play lists is that they seem needlessly complex and potentially confusing. They just want you to do math for the sake of it.

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Pistols also New Tau
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2017, 03:53:23 PM »
Nature of the beast for having the points listed separately for a different style of play.
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
Well I always liked the globals...
I knew I had fans!!!

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"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline Killersquid

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Re: Pistols also New Tau
« Reply #30 on: June 2, 2017, 10:12:13 AM »
It makes sense for most weapons, as a lot are shared amongst units. And then might as list them all for consistency and allows gw to adjust the price for specific weapons if needed (too good, or too bad for the listed price), without altering anything else. I like it.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Pistols also New Tau
« Reply #31 on: June 2, 2017, 10:22:50 AM »
It makes sense for most weapons, as a lot are shared amongst units. And then might as list them all for consistency and allows gw to adjust the price for specific weapons if needed (too good, or too bad for the listed price), without altering anything else. I like it.

Now that you've confirmed that everything is on the same page, I'm somewhat mollified. At least it's all just there.

Offline Killersquid

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Re: Pistols also New Tau
« Reply #32 on: June 2, 2017, 11:05:41 AM »
It makes sense for most weapons, as a lot are shared amongst units. And then might as list them all for consistency and allows gw to adjust the price for specific weapons if needed (too good, or too bad for the listed price), without altering anything else. I like it.

Now that you've confirmed that everything is on the same page, I'm somewhat mollified. At least it's all just there.

Yep. Building a list is easy. All points for all units, weapons and wargear is one one or two pages for each faction (depending how many options there are).

No need to flip through the book for the points on units and weapons anymore. It's all right there.
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Pistols also New Tau
« Reply #33 on: June 2, 2017, 05:00:42 PM »
No need to flip through the book for the points on units and weapons anymore. It's all right there.
Unless you play a Space Marine variant like Dark Angels where you have several pages dedicated to Space Marine units and wargear, and a couple pages dedicated to Dark Angel units that also have to reference Space Marine wargear for the complete picture.  An example of which would be the Nephilim Jetfighter that has Blacksword Missiles, Twin-Linked Lascannons, and Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters.
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
Well I always liked the globals...
I knew I had fans!!!

Quote
"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline Killersquid

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Re: Pistols also New Tau
« Reply #34 on: June 2, 2017, 05:07:14 PM »
No need to flip through the book for the points on units and weapons anymore. It's all right there.
Unless you play a Space Marine variant like Dark Angels where you have several pages dedicated to Space Marine units and wargear, and a couple pages dedicated to Dark Angel units that also have to reference Space Marine wargear for the complete picture.  An example of which would be the Nephilim Jetfighter that has Blacksword Missiles, Twin-Linked Lascannons, and Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters.


Yeah, that is true Super easy for me though, my harlequins points take only half a page lol.
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Pistols also New Tau
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2017, 03:12:03 PM »
Well, there are a few more pistols out there than before and the pulse blaster turned out not to be too shabby in the end. Marker lights and support systems are kind of meh though.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Pistols also New Tau
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2017, 10:22:07 PM »
Been making lists today with the new book. My first thoughts are as follows:

1) Holy amphetamine parrot, somebody doesn't want to see Riptides on the table again! There is absolutely NO WAY their firepower justifies their cost. None. It's seriously beslubbering ridiculous.

2) Likewise: who did Crisis Suits kick in the shins? 100 points for a single Deathrain suit? Screw you guys. Missile Pods are just *not* that good. At all. Try comparing them with the cost of autocannons in pretty much any other army and you'll cry real tears.

3) Broadside, ALSO wildly too expensive for what they do. At least their guns are good, so you can give them that at least.

4) Markerlights are pretty lame now. I can see taking Pathfinders for the Rail Rifles, but otherwise...meh. (also: rail rifles = stupid expensive)

5) Vespid just got legitimately good. Too bad the models are still butt ugly.

6) Strike Teams/Breacher Teams are exactly as good as they always were, which is something. They got a trifle cheaper, too.

7) I like that the Ethereal and Cadre Fireblade traded jobs. It never made sense that the dude in pajamas would be riding to the front lines with the boys.

8 ) Hammerheads are approximately the same cost as they were back in 4th/5th edition, and Railguns are about as good as they've always been against tanks, but now the submunition is mostly worthless. Too bad the tanks can't move and shoot the main gun without penalty.

9) The real winner here? Drones! Cheapo firepower, can protect your other units, nice and fast.

10) Sun Shark is a pretty good bomber now.

Overall this edition is an ENORMOUS kick in the teeth to most of the Tau battlesuits (well, Stealths are pretty much the same). They are way, waaaay too expensive for their stats or weapons. In general most of the special weapons available to Tau are too pricey for their stats, especially when compared to Imperial armies.

Not necessarily going to shelve them for this edition, but I've got to say they don't look terribly enticing. It reminds me very much of 5th Edition, which was a pretty dark time for the Tau. 

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Pistols also New Tau
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2017, 03:19:54 PM »
Been making lists today with the new book. My first thoughts are as follows:

1) Holy amphetamine parrot, somebody doesn't want to see Riptides on the table again! There is absolutely NO WAY their firepower justifies their cost. None. It's seriously beslubbering ridiculous.

Add in that *every time* you use the reactor you take a mortal wound.

Markerlights I'll probably use them in pairs to sling seeker missiles at people.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Pistols also New Tau
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2017, 03:40:02 PM »
Yeah, what happened to the Riptide very much smacks of pique. Somebody did NOT like seeing them on the table. I'm sure their frequency in tournaments had NOTHING to do with it at all.  ::)

I just can't fathom why an Ion Accelerator (alone!) would cost more than 25 guardsmen. Makes zero sense.

As for markerlights, the bright side is that their target priority will drop by a LOT, so it's possible you'll be getting their benefits a lot more often. Granted those benefits aren't stellar, but Pathfinders are dirt cheap now and the Rail Rifle is snazzy, so why not?
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 03:41:30 PM by Wyddr »

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Pistols also New Tau
« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2017, 04:46:07 PM »
I just looked up the price for Riptides. Wow. Really loving the gun drones though, you know how I've always felt about them.
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