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Author Topic: well, well well...  (Read 4013 times)

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Offline magenb

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Re: well, well well...
« Reply #20 on: June 7, 2017, 11:35:25 PM »
I have been reading the preview books and have come to the conclusion that the Necrons didn't really take a hit from the changes like I thought they would. Resurrection protocol is different but I like it. Being able to take crypteks again and make them worth it. Also the death ray can now be used on ground targets. The doom ark has two rates of fire that has potential whether it moves or not. Loosing gauss special rules not a big deal since they can still wound vehicles. The only kinda need is scarab but can deal with that. So much is just re-worded but practically the same as before.

Hey Dread how are you (or any one else) looking to remove LoW/Tanks from your enemy now? I'm looking through the list and I'm not seeing that many things that deal multiple Damage points, the C'tan look like fair good (but point expensive) options. I can see a lot of Necron weapons more geared towards anti-infantry.


I also noticed Transcendent C'tan has a separate entry now, kind of wonder if they are going to bring out a new model or sell it separately to the Vault now.

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Re: well, well well...
« Reply #21 on: June 8, 2017, 06:06:22 PM »
The change vehicles/Gauss has me concerned in this regard as well. My army is a phalanx of infantry on foot. I relied on lots of Gauss glances to take down vehicles. I really don't want to add in heavy destroyers or monsters. I was using Triarch Stalkers, but 1-2 of them won't get much work done in 8th edition.

Offline Killersquid

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Re: well, well well...
« Reply #22 on: June 8, 2017, 06:11:44 PM »
The change vehicles/Gauss has me concerned in this regard as well. My army is a phalanx of infantry on foot. I relied on lots of Gauss glances to take down vehicles. I really don't want to add in heavy destroyers or monsters. I was using Triarch Stalkers, but 1-2 of them won't get much work done in 8th edition.

Gauss will still work at taking down vehicles, while being extra threatening to infantry. A block of rapid-firing necron warriors, with Lord/Overlord buffs will do severe damage to any vehicle they get near, just like they ought to, but now you'll more often be wounding on 5's and not 6's.

I think Necrons in 8th built around two 20 man blocks of warriors supported by other units and hero's to buff them will be quite formidable. especially now that loosing combat doesn't mean you have to pick up the whole unit.

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Offline Dread

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Re: well, well well...
« Reply #23 on: June 8, 2017, 08:12:20 PM »
Like KS said, warriors and guass work pretty much the same. T8 vs str 4=6+. So other vehicles with lower T wound a lot easier for us now. Immortals do better against T8. Again we still have some of the best troops in the game with single all around weapons not a big Mish mash of specials and heavies.

I also believe that vehicles will be left home more now with the points hike making it more of an infantry game. Either way our army can deal it out as well as we can take it.

Can you believe at the beginning of your turn you get to add models back, I mean the enemy thinking they're winning and thump, more bodies reappear. That look on their faces will be priceless.
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Offline magenb

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Re: well, well well...
« Reply #24 on: June 8, 2017, 11:15:40 PM »
Can you believe at the beginning of your turn you get to add models back, I mean the enemy thinking they're winning and thump, more bodies reappear. That look on their faces will be priceless.

The Ghost ark is sounding amazing for this. Embark units auto resupply, and those very close get another RP roll..

I'm thinking a couple of cheap cryteks in the HQ slots (maybe swap one for Illuminor) as they buff RP rolls.

2 Full immortal telsa squads,
1 Full Necron Warrors,
Ghost Ark
5 man Deathmark to try and pick on Characters.
2 Annihilation Barges.

Should be around 1400 points

Wouldn't mind trying a C'tan out, as 2 of their powers look badass, each one has a specific use case. Both can smash things in CC.

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Re: well, well well...
« Reply #25 on: June 9, 2017, 01:00:13 AM »
I would also recommend Tomb Spyders with gloom prisms, as they are the only thing you have to deny the witch, and unlike in previous editions, can actually do something.
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Offline Dread

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Re: well, well well...
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2017, 11:05:07 PM »
I like the list Magenb, I will keep that in mind for later games.

KS, I really like the spiders and agree well finally have a better use for them then just bolstering scarabs.

Now it's time to get serious for Friday night at midnight. Ive been told that we will be playing 100 power points games. So I need to get something put together. Any suggestions? My first idea is...

Imotek
2 crypteks
10 warriors
2x warriors 20 each
2 immortals 10 each blasters
Doom ark
Ghost ark
Doom scyth

I believe that is right at 100 pp
« Last Edit: June 12, 2017, 11:57:27 PM by Dread »
"Burning thru the universe in search of peace only brings more war. Peace is an illusion, war is reality, that is the way of things"

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Offline magenb

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Re: well, well well...
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2017, 02:52:44 AM »
I like the list Magenb, I will keep that in mind for later games.

KS, I really like the spiders and agree well finally have a better use for them then just bolstering scarabs.

Now it's time to get serious for Friday night at midnight. Ive been told that we will be playing 100 power points games. So I need to get something put together. Any suggestions? My first idea is...

Imotek
2 crypteks
10 warriors
2x warriors 20 each
2 immortals 10 each blasters
Doom ark
Ghost ark
Doom scyth

I believe that is right at 100 pp

Pop the Immortal in the Ghost ark to get them into rapid fire range... so.. soo good..

Will be interesting to see how the doom ark goes though.

If any one has the tomb blades, really interested to hear how they go in games now too.

Offline Dread

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Re: well, well well...
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2017, 11:02:44 PM »
Putting immortals in the ark would be great but according to rules only warriors can ride, bummer.

Also think I'm going to change out doom ark for tomb blades and night scyth, it can move immortals :).
"Burning thru the universe in search of peace only brings more war. Peace is an illusion, war is reality, that is the way of things"

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Offline magenb

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Re: well, well well...
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2017, 03:45:16 AM »
hmm let me see if I get this right...

Imotekh can be in the ghost ark.
Ghost ark, goes full advance,
Obyron who is hanging back ghostwalks him and his buddies to within x inches of.. well it would the ghost ark?
could slingshot immortals into range or  CC unit.
rather expensive thing to do considering it is over 500 points in 3 models.

Doesn't seem to break the transport rule, as the model in the transport is not doing anything and is not being affected by it.

Offline Dread

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Re: well, well well...
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2017, 03:55:46 AM »
Oh, that's a good Idea too. Right now I'm only worryied about power points, so that's the cost I'm looking at right now. Also unfortunately obyron and his buddy are the only 2 characters I don't have.
"Burning thru the universe in search of peace only brings more war. Peace is an illusion, war is reality, that is the way of things"

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Offline magenb

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Re: well, well well...
« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2017, 07:35:10 AM »
so are people going to try out the Melee units? Lychguard and Praetorians look beastly. Do you need to take a Night Scythe to get the slower Melee unit in range?



Offline Dread

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Re: well, well well...
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2017, 03:17:15 AM »
So I got my xenos book 1, rule book and the nurgle part of the new box. Unfortunately it was crowded and I was to tired to play tonight. However we poured thru the rule book and I have to say, I like it, a lot. The power point play and missions for it are on par for our group. I hope to get to report next weekend on a game, if it's in the cards for me. This type of play has really given me some peace as putting together 50 or 75 or 100 point games is a breeze, 10-15 minutes and game on. I hope that other players , such as myself, who started looking at the new as doom and gloom see this new edition as a nice fresh breath. I think they got it right.
"Burning thru the universe in search of peace only brings more war. Peace is an illusion, war is reality, that is the way of things"

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Re: well, well well...
« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2017, 05:05:28 PM »
So after getting several games in:

Mass Gauss is NOT reliable at all for taking out vehicles. Even with the AP value and being buffed to 2+ BS, it takes a lot of shots to pop even a Rhino. AT is best left for our very high costed Heavy Destroyers. They seem to be the best. Barges and the like just don't put out enough shots, with an AP value to be really worth it. Doomsday is a lot of points for not a lot of shots as well.

Both C'tan shards are really good and useful for most any army. Specially now that they can "hide" amongst your army.

Flayed ones, while quite a bit more expensive, are pretty good. I've liked taking three groups of five. Lots of attacks with rerolls.

Lychguard and Praetorians are so prohibitively expensive now I find it hard to work them into lists.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 05:23:15 PM by Partninja »

Offline magenb

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Re: well, well well...
« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2017, 06:05:30 PM »
Mass Gauss is NOT reliable at all for taking out vehicles. Even with the AP value and being buffed to 2+ BS, it takes a lot of shots to pop even a Rhino. AT is best left for our very high costed Heavy Destroyers. They seem to be the best. Barges and the like just don't put out enough shots, with an AP value to be really worth it. Doomsday is a lot of points for not a lot of shots as well.

Lychguard and Praetorians are so prohibitively expensive now I find it hard to work them into lists.

Use the Immortal's Gauss to take out Rhino's. They are the same Strength and AP as Dark Reapers, while less damage they are cheaper than a reaper :)


Lychguard are really expensive, but smash face in CC now and they are usually good for taking out things of a similar point cost. Because of that you have to take some sort of transport or they get shot at too much.

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Re: well, well well...
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2017, 04:08:57 PM »
I think you need to double check your Index. They are NOT the same as a reaper launcher (+1AP, +1 damage, more range) and have the same effectiveness vs T7 as the flayer. Warriors would be better as you can take more warriors (and flayers) for less points. Even still, it takes too much shooting and luck to put down a single rhino-like transport. This is worsened as there should usually be others moving up on you (specially at the most effective range of Necron rapid fire).

UPDATE: With the recent bout of FAQs Necrons have gotten two buffs! Monoliths are more accurate, and there is actually a difference between Void and Phase now.

Offline magenb

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Re: well, well well...
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2017, 06:10:23 PM »
I think you need to double check your Index. They are NOT the same as a reaper launcher (+1AP, +1 damage, more range) and have the same effectiveness vs T7 as the flayer.

Immortal's with Gauss Blasters have the same S and AP as Reapers, they still do less damage, but you are able to take alot more of them :)

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Re: well, well well...
« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2017, 06:27:11 PM »
So we're just going to ignore the reapers other fire mode that is better against vehicles then? Sorry, same S in one fire mode but not always. Not the same AP or damage (I'm not sure where you're looking). Either way, your comparison is way off.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 06:32:23 PM by Partninja »

Offline Killersquid

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Re: well, well well...
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2017, 10:44:22 PM »
Yeah. S5 vs s4 against t6-7 is exactly the same. Might as well take warriors and get the extra bodies.

I've played against doomsday arcs a few times now. They are really good gunboats. Great range to sit back and nuke tanks, and when things get heated they can blast folks with the guards array. They are also really really hard to kill.

I found my opponents heavy destroys got off only one shot before I killed them, but the doomsday arcs I  just couldn't deal with.

The nightbringer is also phenomenal all around.

Tesla is also still good at dishing out the wounds. I wouldn't be surprised to see anniliation barges out again.
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Re: well, well well...
« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2017, 11:22:12 PM »
I've had the opposite results with the Doomsday.

It doesn't put out a reliable number of AT shots for the points and there are better AI units we can take if you're trying to bump the shots to D6. MSU is also going to be pretty common with MEQ armies so getting a D6 will be rarer.

Barges I've found are only strictly OK against very weak vehicles with T5-6 and/or have 4++ saves (Harlies) or worse. The lack of AP and unreliable extra hits make them pretty bleh so far.

Vehicles are quite resilient though. I give them that.

I'm struggling with decent AT options for my Necrons in general. I'm not really a fan of destroyers and the Heavy Destroyers are quite a bit of points now.

Both C'tan shards are amazing though. The Nightbringer has always been very strong and scary in all the games people have used them. The Deceiver also gives some interesting options with his D3 redeploy (He also not bad in CC either).

Monoliths have also been very strong. Even better now with the ballistic skill buff.

Flayed ones are also really excellent assault support or back line harassment units. Lots of attacks, with wound rerolls makes then quite the threat.

Praetorians and Lychguard cost so many points it's hard to justify using them at 1500pts.

We've also found that the new "core meta" is large squads of warriors with Cryptek and Overlords. The named ones also give a lot of powerful enhancements. 20 warriors, rapid firing at BS 2+, and then getting +1 attack is really really strong.

 


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