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Author Topic: Asking the Brain Boyz: Orks vs. Tau  (Read 1283 times)

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Offline Roboknee77

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Asking the Brain Boyz: Orks vs. Tau
« on: February 23, 2017, 11:17:59 AM »
Alright, time to pick the brains of the bosses here; what's an ork supposed to do against the Tau?  Wyddr and I will be taking a break from our Daemons vs. Orks campaigns and he will be breaking out his Tau army for the next battle.  I hear/read horror stories about how top tier the Tau are in this edition and wondered what the thoughts were here?

It will be a 1500 point game and I have no idea what to expect from his army.  I'm expecting drones that give bonuses to their shooting, which should be target priorities.  I've also read they have abilities that can target reserves but couldn't find any rules about that.

I'm thinking of using a mix of trukk boyz, warbikes, deffkoptas, and lobbas for sure.  Thinking about lootas and tankbustas too.  Maybe a small unit of kommandos to distract his backfield infantry too.  As always, you're thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Offline Aurics Pride

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Re: Asking the Brain Boyz: Orks vs. Tau
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2017, 01:48:04 PM »
Tau are top quality cheddar for sure!
I can't say that I have seen them being able to attack your reserves but you will find that they can dish out Interceptor to a lot of their units so as to attack you as you come in from reserves (My Drop pod army hates this....).
I'm no Ork player but I can tell you that if you get into combat you will make a big mess of pretty much anything you touch. Power Claws are essential for taking care of Riptides, Ghostkeels etc though weight of attacks will usually do this eventually.
Speed will probably be your biggest asset against the Tau, if you can get into their face then you can put the pressure on the bigger Tau units. Sadly the difficult part is getting there!
Tau armies can really put out a horrendous amount of firepower, you can lessen this slightly by taking out his units with Markerlights. Marker Drones and Skyrays are common units for marker lights but some players still use pathfinders (although rare now)

Oh and if he takes a Riptide wing against Orks then feel free to give him a slap from me!
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Offline Roboknee77

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Re: Asking the Brain Boyz: Orks vs. Tau
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2017, 04:38:42 PM »
Thanks Aurics.  Interceptor was what I was thinking of.  I didn't see how it got dished out to units so they could attack my units coming in from reserves.  If they can do that, then speed will be more important than infiltrate for me.

Offline dog_of_war

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Re: Asking the Brain Boyz: Orks vs. Tau
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2017, 10:20:06 PM »
I've had some success using kommandos in the past against Tau. Take a full squad with a power klaw nob and double burnas, you'll be able to hit him hard in the backfield. Adding Boss Snikrot allows you to come on the board exactly where you want and his combined stealth and shrouded special rule will help keep them alive until the following turn when they can charge. Sure they are a target for interceptor, but if you come on correctly, you'll have a pretty sweet save against it. It's actually a good idea to scare him to activate interceptor against such a survivable save because it denies him the use of that weapon his following turn. You can also infiltrate them, but I find the outflank move really forces the Tau player to split their focus, which is brutal for them. Tau need to focus fire on an enemy piece meal and if they start dividing their forces they start to fall flat, except if he brings a riptide wing. But, as Aurics Pride stated, if he does that against orks, by all means slap him.

Koptas are also great against Tau if used properly. If you can turboboost or outflank into his backfield to set up a following turn charge and stay out of harms way until then, you'll devastate his units in close combat. The high toughness of the kopta will allow him to tarpit his unit, especially if you through him against a unti of fire warriors. Add a killsaw and your laughing.

Watch out for overwatch, which can be brutal from Tau. If you can mutli-charge his units with your own, you can direct that overwatch to some cannon fodder or tougher units. Theirs nothing funnier than watching an overconfident opponent thinking that he'll decimate your boyz to overwatch when they charge and you opt to charge some gretchin in first to draw their fire. Sure I may lose have my grots, but now my boyz make it into combat unscathed. with that in mind, gretchin may not be a bad idea for cannon fodder if you have some spare points lying around.

You've got me so jazzed about this upcoming battle, I threw together a little sampler list that I might take. Take from it what you will.

CAD #1 838 points
HQ
Big Mek Shokk Attack Gun w/ammo runt

Troops
Shootas x 11 + Nob w/ big choppa
Trukk w/ big shoota, reinforced ram
Gretchin x10 + runtherd

Elites
Kommandos x9 w/ x2 burna + nob w/ powerklaw
Kommandos x9 w/ x2 burna + nob w/ powerklaw
Snikrot

Fast Attack
Skorcha
Skorcha
Skorcha

Heavy
Lootas x7

CAD #2 661 points
HQ
Big Mek Shokk Attack Gun

Troops
Shootas x 11 + Nob w/ big choppa
Trukk w/ big shoota, reinforced ram
Gretchin x10 + runtherd

Elites
Tankbustas x5
Trukk w/ big shoota, reinforced ram
Tankbustas x5
Trukk w/ big shoota, reinforced ram

Fast Attack
Deffkopta TL-big shoota, buzzsaw
Deffkopta TL-big shoota, buzzsaw
Deffkopta TL-big shoota, buzzsaw

Heavy
Lobba
Lobba
Lobba

Big Meks each join a grot unit and stay on opposite ends on the field, as far away from the enemy with clear lines of sight. Lobbas and lootas do the same. Ensure you space them out enough to ensure an outflanking or deepstriking unit doesn't have a hay day in your backfield. Shoota boyz and tankbustas rush enemy. Ensure you move your full 12" move to reach the enemy quicker. Don't worry about having to snap shoot, its only one less BS than what you already have. The trucks are more distraction than anything. Your primary goal is to outflank with the kommandos and skorchas to burn his backside and sneak in those green baron deffkoptas. Keep him focused one dealing with all your artillery fire and rushing trucks, while he ignores the real pain. Every unit is kept thin on models, forcing him to waste his expensive shooting try to take out single model units. Once you've dealt some pain and split his attention, get into close combat as quickly as possible.

This is an example of a list I've had a lot of success with against gunline armies. Look at it, digest it, cannibalize what you will.

Offline Roboknee77

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Re: Asking the Brain Boyz: Orks vs. Tau
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2017, 10:27:59 AM »
Those are some pretty good suggestions Dog.  I hadn't really thought of using two CADs since I've played smaller games up until now.  That definitely opens up number of units I can take.  Your list has 17 different small units, that's a lot of targets that he can't kill all at once and will leave something alive to attack him.

Thanks a lot, this was really helpful.  I've got to go back to the drawing board and see what I can do with the units I have on hand.

Offline dog_of_war

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Re: Asking the Brain Boyz: Orks vs. Tau
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2017, 03:10:20 PM »
Always a pleasure Roboknee. As a horde army, orks really need multiple detachments to maximize the force allocation slots they can use. Sure it offers more killpoints to your opponent, but as with most ork strategy, if you are not playing aggressively, armies that are faster and with lots of tricks up their sleeves will run right over you.

Offline Roboknee77

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Re: Asking the Brain Boyz: Orks vs. Tau
« Reply #6 on: March 2, 2017, 01:16:54 PM »
Yeah, I definitely learning that.  And I've been having more fun playing now that I know I've got a lot to learn.  If I win, great, if not, what can I learn from the experience?

Now for a serious question, how do you think Kans fare against the Tau?  I have an idea for an Orky version of a Tau army with some Kans and a Deff Dread in it.  Even though I have a feeling the army wouldn't perform well I think I would enjoy seeing it on the field.

Offline dog_of_war

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Re: Asking the Brain Boyz: Orks vs. Tau
« Reply #7 on: March 2, 2017, 01:49:29 PM »
I am a huge kan wall fan and I haven't run an ork list without kans in at least 5 years. You're not going to win gunline versus gunline against Tau, but if you have a moving wall of armour that shoots back and combine it with some outflanking shenanigans from deffkoptas, buggies, and kommandos, then you could have yourself a pretty solid list.

Kans have potential against Tau, if you can spam them in some way and force him to have to direct a lot of firepower against them to remove them as a threat. With kan's limited shooting range, its going to be tough to keep them alive until they can get close enough to cause some punishment on the Tau ranks. Someways you can do this are:

1. mitigate bad rolls on the cowardly grots! special rule by making the units large and by pairing the unit with a deff dread

2. make your opponent have decision overload by flooding the field with a vast quantity of single model kans. This is a similar strategy to the list I made above, in that he can complete annihilate a unit very easily, but he has to dedicate one of his entire unit's shooting attack to do so. Making a list with 3 CAD, you can have 9 single kans marching up the field.

3. adding a kustom force field Mek nearby can help ward off some of the imcoming damage. Personally this tends towards more of a defensive approach that I am not a huge fan of, but can be useful if played correctly. You can also use a Morkanaut for the same effect.

Throw a list together and post it and we'll see what ideas we can come up with together.

Offline Roboknee77

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Re: Asking the Brain Boyz: Orks vs. Tau
« Reply #8 on: March 2, 2017, 04:40:30 PM »
I really like the Kan and Dredd models and now that I'm playing in higher point battles I can start adding them back into my lists.

So, I've got two lists I just started working on.  The first is a more serious list, the second is the Mecha-Ork list:

List 1: Double CAD
CAD 1 (870 pts):
Warboss w/ Warbike, Bosspole, Big Choppa & Da Finkin' Kap

Painboy w/ Warbike

5 Warbikers w/ Nob w/ Big Choppa

5 Tank Bustas w/ Bomb Squig
Dedicated Transport Trukk w/ Reinforced Ram

5 Tank Bustas w/ Bomb Squig
Dedicated Transport Trukk w/ Reinforced Ram

12 Shoota Boyz w/ Nob w/ Big Choppa & Bosspole
Dedicated Transport Trukk w/ Reinforced Ram

12 Shoota Boyz w/ Nob w/ Big Choppa & Bosspole
Dedicated Transport Trukk w/ Reinforced Ram

5 Lobbas w/ 3 Ammo Runts

CAD 2 (628 pts):
Big Mek w/ SAG

10 Gretchin w/ Runtherd
10 Grethcin w/ Runtherd

Deffkopta w/ Buzzsaw
Deffkopta w/ Buzzsaw
Deffkopta w/ Buzzsaw

10 Kommandos w/ 2 Burnas & Nob w/ Bosspole & Big Choppa

Boss Snikrot

7 Lootas

List 2:
Mecha-Orks (CAD 1499 pts):
Big Mek w/ Warbike, Bosspole, KFF & Da Finkin Kap

Painboy w/ Warbike

5 Warbikers w/ Nob w/ Power Klaw

Deffkopta w/ Buzzsaw
Deffkopta w/ Buzzsaw

4 Lobbas w/ 2 Extra Gretchin & Ammo Runt ea.

5 Tank Bustas w/ Bomb Squig
Dedicated Transport Trukk w/ Reinforced Ram

5 Tank Bustas w/ Bomb Squig
Dedicated Transport Trukk w/ Reinforced Ram

12 Shoota Boyz w/ Nob w/ Power Klaw & Bosspole
Dedicated Transport Trukk w/ Reinforced Ram

12 Shoota Boyz w/ Nob w/ Power Klaw & Bosspole
Dedicated Transport Trukk w/ Reinforced Ram

Deff Dread w/ Extra Power Klaw & Grot Riggers

6 Killa Kans w/ Grotzookas

Offline dog_of_war

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Re: Asking the Brain Boyz: Orks vs. Tau
« Reply #9 on: March 2, 2017, 11:12:42 PM »
Both lists have some great advantages. As a kan officiando I'm partial to the second list. If you're going to go a full unit of kans, I'd really get that KFF to accompany them instead of joining the bikes. It's also very risky putting both your HQ units together. I sort of took what you had and mashed the two lists together. Came just under 1500 points.

Big Mek KFF
Painboy w/ Warbike
Mek
Mek

9 Kommandos w/ 2 Burnas + Nob w/ Bosspole & Powerklaw
Boss Snikrot

5 Tank Bustas w/ Bomb Squig
Dedicated Transport Trukk w/ Reinforced Ram
5 Tank Bustas w/ Bomb Squig
Dedicated Transport Trukk w/ Reinforced Ram

12 Shoota Boyz
Dedicated Transport Trukk w/ Reinforced Ram

12 Shoota Boyz
Dedicated Transport Trukk w/ Reinforced Ram

Gretchin x10 + Runtherd

4 Warbikers + Nob w/ Power Klaw
Deffkopta w/ Buzzsaw

Deff Dread w/ Extra Power Klaw x2 + Grot Riggers
6 Killa Kans w/ Grotzookas

The free slot meks join the big mek with the unit of grots and trail the kans and dread. You'll need to really watch your positioning, but you should keep the kans in the lead to optimize their firing range and no more than 6 inches away from the big mek himself to take advantage of the KFF. Remember the KFF only protects models with the invulnerable save that are within his range. Models in the kan unit that are further away from the big mek himself are not protected. The dread can be off to the side and needs to remaining within 6 inches of the big mek and 6 inches from the kans. Picture it like this:

 k k k k k k
g g g g g g g
g g m M m D g

The meks can move to base contact with a damaged kan or dread to try and repair them with their mek tools. Try to use the cheap meks to do this rather than the big mek or you'll be tempted to break your KFF coverage.

Personally I'd take more koptas over the bikes, but if you can get to his lines with them, you'll simply wreck his army. Just realize that they will be priority number one. Keep that to your advantage and press him with the kans and boyz and try and keep the bikes out of line of sight from his nasty stuff. Don't be afraid to turbo-boost either the bikes or kopta. Sacrificing shooting to keep yourself safe and setting up a next turn charge is more important than some minimal damage output.

Offline Roboknee77

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Re: Asking the Brain Boyz: Orks vs. Tau
« Reply #10 on: March 3, 2017, 11:50:19 AM »
You do have a good point, putting the Big Mek and the Pain Boy with the Warbikers does make them a tasty target.  I may modify your list a bit.  I could keep the Big Mek with the KFF on the Bike and keep them near the Kans instead.  The bike gives him better armor, cover, toughness, and maneuverability but sacrifices the grots as ablative armor.

Thanks again DoW.

Offline dog_of_war

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Re: Asking the Brain Boyz: Orks vs. Tau
« Reply #11 on: March 4, 2017, 09:44:58 AM »
A biker mek can still join a unit of grots, if you are still looking to do that, but may be overkill. If he's staying with the bikers and you're keeping him with the Kansas you give up the mobility of the bikers. This may work for you, but I just wanted to play devil's advocate on this one.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: Asking the Brain Boyz: Orks vs. Tau
« Reply #12 on: March 4, 2017, 10:27:33 AM »
A biker mek can still join a unit of grots, if you are still looking to do that, but may be overkill. If he's staying with the bikers and you're keeping him with the Kansas you give up the mobility of the bikers. This may work for you, but I just wanted to play devil's advocate on this one.

Don't usually chime in on these things, what with me being your opponent and all (and, new to the game or not, you obviously have the capacity to beat me), but want to +1 this.

There is zero (zero) reason to put a mek on a bike in a squad of grots. The grots invalidate his toughness bonus, the movement bonus, and, given his intended use, the guns are useless, too. Buy him 'Eavy Armor and stick him there OR put him with the bikes. Don't try to do both.

Offline dog_of_war

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Re: Asking the Brain Boyz: Orks vs. Tau
« Reply #13 on: March 4, 2017, 10:52:04 AM »
If you really are looking to keep a KFF near the bikes and the kans, your best bet is to take two Big Meks. Having your bikes keeping within 6 inches of the kans is really going to make the list difficult to play. You can do this by either dropping the painboy or taking two CADs, to unlock up to 4 HQs. If you go double CAD, change a unit of tank bustas to shoota boys, giving you 3 shoota boys and a unit of grots which are your 4 troop choices needed for two CADs.

Offline Roboknee77

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Re: Asking the Brain Boyz: Orks vs. Tau
« Reply #14 on: March 6, 2017, 10:11:04 AM »
Thanks for your replies.  I wasn't clear, I was planning on keeping the Big Mek on the bike and putting it with or near the kans and leaving the bikers alone with the Painboy.  I wasn't going to try to keep the all the bikers and kans close together, I know that would be foolish.  I also wasn't going to put the grots with the Mek on a bike, I was mentally comparing bonuses of being on a bike vs. being with grots.

I suppose I should have reread the last post one more time and said him instead of them in regards to the Big Mek.  Yeah, that was totally my fault on that one.

Offline dog_of_war

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Re: Asking the Brain Boyz: Orks vs. Tau
« Reply #15 on: March 6, 2017, 03:08:01 PM »
Be very careful with that strategy, as your Big Mek will be a sitting duck. Not being joined to a unit he will be easy to target by the tau and won't last long. Yes he'll have an armour and invulnerable save available, but tau shooting will make short work of that and make for an easy first blood and/or warlord point. The tau only have to cause a few unsaved wounds in the Big Mek when he's alone versus ten or more when he's in a squad of bikes or grots. Easy pickins for tau.

Offline Akaitsuki

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Re: Asking the Brain Boyz: Orks vs. Tau
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2017, 07:11:36 PM »
From experience (mostly 6th ed since my Tau friend retired) you should not try to outshoot the Tau it's a nasty proposition.

Also from personal experience Kommandos do very pairly against tau overwatch. Unless you bring that formation which I would dare say is too expensive for what it does and you will need something else that's a large threat to force them to defend their front or the flanks/rear. But for the most part Kommandos will be shot to pieces.

Only diff in tau between 6th ed and 7th ed are the new MCs and Storm Surge which is a game changer but at the point limits you specified I think you are unlikely to see that level of cheese without the Tau force making some hefty sacrifices.

1500 is a PERFECT point level to bring a massive green tide and drown them in bodies the best part is that you only need to land 1 assault with the green tide vs tau after which his entire army wont be able to shoot at you if you remain engaged (possible if you multi assault) and it gives all models a free pile0-in extra move to catch up and reach the enemy lines.

I never lost a game while playing Green Tide formation even when facing down Knights it's just too many bodies too many Power Klaws.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: Asking the Brain Boyz: Orks vs. Tau
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2017, 09:44:25 PM »
I think one major change to Tau in 7th is the advent of their various formations. Thanks to things like Coordinating Fire (from the Hunter Contingent) or Killing Blow (from Dawn Blade), I gotta say that I'm *substantially* less worried about a green tide these days than I was back in 5th. Taking out a mob a turn is really not that hard, and if the mob is walking, well...

Speed and number of targets is key, I'm pretty sure. You need lots and lots of cheap, fast units--split Tau firepower, get some units through to assault on multiple fronts, and pray the overwatch doesn't end you.


 


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