flood

News:

Login  |  Register

Author Topic: 1500 point list - Where do I put my Archon  (Read 573 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline dog_of_war

  • Aspect Warrior
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 585
  • Country: ca
  • Armies: Orks, Chaos Space Marines, Eldar, Dark Eldar
1500 point list - Where do I put my Archon
« on: January 8, 2017, 10:50:51 AM »
So after about 6 months of slowly acquiring models on eBay, I think I'm ready to throw together a list. I like the idea of Death by a Thousand Cuts and I want to go heavy on the splinter weapons. This is by no means an optimized list, but a fun one. I have no intention on facing flyers or super heavies, as they are not in my gaming circle.

I'm looking at filling 1500 points, but I'm stuck on where to put my Archon. I have the models to do a unit of wyches/bloodbrides or a small unit of trueborn. I have 3 wracks, as well. I also like the idea of incubi, but I would have to go and find a good deal on eBay for them. Court of the Archon is nifty as well, but again I don't have any of the models. If I do pick something up, I've got about $75 left in the slush fund to spend.

Here's what I have so far.

Archon (agonizer, shadow field, parasite kiss) [130]

Kabalite Warriors x10 (splinter cannon) [95]
Raider (dark lance, splinter racks) [75]

Kabalite Warriors x10 (splinter cannon) [95]
Raider (dark lance, splinter racks) [75]

Kabalite Warriors x10 (splinter cannon) [95]
Raider (dark lance, splinter racks) [75]

Scourge x5 (shredder x2, haywire blaster x2) [110]
Scourge x5 (shredder x2, heat lance x2) [110]

Reavers x3 (blaster) [58]

Talos (TL splinter cannon) [120]
Talos (TL splinter cannon) [120]
Talos (TL splinter cannon) [120]

That leaves me with 222 points left to spend. I really like scourges and have more to add. If add a unit I lose obsec by taking Real Space Raiders, so not sure if I want to go that route or make units larger. It really depends on what unit I add to fit with the Archon and how many points I have left to spend.

So, what would you guys add as a bodyguard for the Archon? Would you give him a transport or have him use a webway portal?

Offline Wyddr

  • Author Eminence: Hereticus Liber Daemonica | Fio'shas Shi
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4426
  • Country: us
    • My blog about SF/F stuff
  • Armies: Daemons, Imperial Fists, Tau, Ksons, Vostroyans
Re: 1500 point list - Where do I put my Archon
« Reply #1 on: January 8, 2017, 11:46:35 AM »
I would say Raider w/Night Shield and Dark Lance + 3 Grotesques. Still leaves you about 40 points to play with. 

I might suggest ditching the Splinter Cannons off the Kabalites and, with the savings, you have enough to buy a second group of Reavers (or a bigger unit of Reavers).

Offline Cavalier

  • High Corsair Prince of Painting | Warlock
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1856
  • Country: us
  • Renegade Autarch
  • Armies: Eldar, Dark Angels, World Eaters
Re: 1500 point list - Where do I put my Archon
« Reply #2 on: January 8, 2017, 03:27:50 PM »
Hey DoW great list. Raiders are very clutch. That extra dark light firepower often goes underestimated. Very handy though! I always like a mix of Raiders and Venoms myself.

Yeah I'm with Wydrr though. Drop those Splinter Cannons, even twin-linked its not worth it. I'd rather take the regular splinter fire twin-linked.

I'd also go all Haywire on the Scourges.... you've got tons of anti-infantry. I'd capitalize on the great range of the Haywire plus the mobility. But if you have them modeled up that way... totally understandable.

As for the Archon, Grotesques+Raider is great. But if you don't have the models I'd go with the True Born. Very under rated by most DE players, but I like it big time. True Born and Blasters + WWP from saved points from dropping the cannons are a great unit. Obviously the armor popping ability is fantastic, but say armor isn't the main threat, you are gonna instant death a lot of targets with the Blaster's very good strength.

If you were gonna spend some hobby dollars, I'd convert up some Grotesques though. They are just SO nasty. Especially with their poisoned attacks and high toughness (which will confer on to the Archon due to majority toughness). I recommednd using the Crypt Horror kit Crypt Horrors | Games Workshop Webstore

Thats what everybody uses these days. Pick up that, bits order some masks and away you go.

Anyway let us know what you think bud. Can't wait to see you paint up some DE!
Check out my army! Eldar Corsair Army

I'm also on the Splintermind Podcast! http://www.facebook.com/splintermindpodcast/

Offline dog_of_war

  • Aspect Warrior
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 585
  • Country: ca
  • Armies: Orks, Chaos Space Marines, Eldar, Dark Eldar
Re: 1500 point list - Where do I put my Archon
« Reply #3 on: January 8, 2017, 09:45:31 PM »
@Wyddr I love the idea of grotesques in a raider, but it might break the pocket book at the moment and I have yet to assemble a model, let alone play a game, I think I'm going to try a piece together a bodyguard from what I have available. Would you take them with a WWP, if I do happen to find something inexpensive to substitute? I only have 3 raiders at the moment and a WWP would save on the $ cost.

@Cavalier Thanks for the tips. I think I'm going to go with your suggestion on the True Born. They fit nicely with the theme of Death by a Thousand Cuts and I really haven't used any of the blasters I've acquired on anything. Luckily nothing is modeled up or, if I purchased it that way, is easy enough to change. I'm not sure on running solely haywire blasters on both units of scourges. I do see what you mean on having enough anti-infantry. I do like the idea of heat lances. Great AP and melta to boot. They are also relatively cheap points wise. Here's what I've come up with using both your suggestions.

Archon (agonizer, shadow field, parasite kiss, WWP) [165]

True Born x4 (x4 Blaster) and Dracon (agonizer, haywire grenade, blast pistol) [170]

Kabalite Warriors x10 [80]
Raider (dark lance, splinter racks) [75]

Kabalite Warriors x10 [80]
Raider (dark lance, splinter racks) [75]

Kabalite Warriors x10 [80]
Raider (dark lance, splinter racks) [75]

Scourge x5 (haywire blaster x4) [120]
Scourge x5 (heat lance x4) [120]

Reavers x3 (blaster) [58]

Talos (TL splinter cannon) [120]
Talos (TL splinter cannon) [120]
Talos (TL splinter cannon) [120]

1458

As for painting, I cannot wait to try out my new airbrush and compressor. A nice xmas present to myself and I figured I needed a new army to break it in. Hopefully the learning curve isn't too steep, but I figured with Dark Eldar you only really need about 2 or 3 base colours to concentrate on.

Offline Wyddr

  • Author Eminence: Hereticus Liber Daemonica | Fio'shas Shi
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4426
  • Country: us
    • My blog about SF/F stuff
  • Armies: Daemons, Imperial Fists, Tau, Ksons, Vostroyans
Re: 1500 point list - Where do I put my Archon
« Reply #4 on: January 8, 2017, 10:14:20 PM »
If you run the numbers on heat lances, they are inferior to haywire blasters against vehicles in every range bracket. The only bonus is really in the much larger odds to blow up vehicles, and that will only really ever come up when you are in very, very short range.

Heat Lances sound cool, but they really don't deliver. Well, *maybe* against AV10 Open-topped Vehicles, but even then you'd rather hit it with Darklight weapons. If you aren't crazy about all-haywire, then buy Blasters--they're better than Heat Lances in most situations.   

As for Trueborn, they aren't a terrible substitute, but they're fragile as all hell and the Archon can only tank from one direction. They'll drop pretty damned fast, so be warned.

As for your questions:
@Wyddr I love the idea of grotesques in a raider, but it might break the pocket book at the moment and I have yet to assemble a model, let alone play a game, I think I'm going to try a piece together a bodyguard from what I have available. Would you take them with a WWP, if I do happen to find something inexpensive to substitute? I only have 3 raiders at the moment and a WWP would save on the $ cost.

The only problem with taking Grots with a WWP is that they can't assault the turn they arrive and have no real shooting attacks worth much (the Liquefier is only so-so), so you basically land them and have to stand around while the enemy has a free round to figure out how to blast you off the board/neuter your assault options.

Additionally, DE really need lots of hulls on the board to thin out the enemy fire. You're going to lose Raiders left and right, so it's important to field a bunch of the things to draw fire and distract attention.

WWPs are best with shooting units (like Trueborn or Royal Courts) that can drop in an unexpected quarter and dish out serious damage right away.

Given the cash flow issues, I'd say what you're doing is the best that can be managed. Save up for those Grots and extra Raider, though. I think they'll come in handy.

Offline dog_of_war

  • Aspect Warrior
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 585
  • Country: ca
  • Armies: Orks, Chaos Space Marines, Eldar, Dark Eldar
Re: 1500 point list - Where do I put my Archon
« Reply #5 on: January 8, 2017, 10:50:10 PM »
The main reason I chose the heat lances over more haywire is that I don't see a lot of vehicles at the moment. There's the occasional helbrute, but that's pretty much it. I figured the heat lances are a good TEQ killer and double duty for armour, if I happen to face some. The melta does give them a slight advantage on the armour penetration, even though they are lower strength. I still have to get out of my own gaming circle on day and actual face some different opponents, so maybe blasters or more haywire are the way to go.

The biggest issue I have with blasters, is that I only have four and they are not easy to find on bitz sites at the moment for a good price. Is there a cheap way to modify other bitz to make blasters or have you found a good source for any? It's tough when you only get 1 in a kit.

Offline Wyldhunt

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1445
Re: 1500 point list - Where do I put my Archon
« Reply #6 on: January 8, 2017, 11:54:18 PM »
@Wyddr I love the idea of grotesques in a raider, but it might break the pocket book at the moment and I have yet to assemble a model, let alone play a game, I think I'm going to try a piece together a bodyguard from what I have available. Would you take them with a WWP, if I do happen to find something inexpensive to substitute? I only have 3 raiders at the moment and a WWP would save on the $ cost.

@Cavalier Thanks for the tips. I think I'm going to go with your suggestion on the True Born. They fit nicely with the theme of Death by a Thousand Cuts and I really haven't used any of the blasters I've acquired on anything. Luckily nothing is modeled up or, if I purchased it that way, is easy enough to change. I'm not sure on running solely haywire blasters on both units of scourges. I do see what you mean on having enough anti-infantry. I do like the idea of heat lances. Great AP and melta to boot. They are also relatively cheap points wise. Here's what I've come up with using both your suggestions.

Archon (agonizer, shadow field, parasite kiss, WWP) [165]

True Born x4 (x4 Blaster) and Dracon (agonizer, haywire grenade, blast pistol) [170]

Kabalite Warriors x10 [80]
Raider (dark lance, splinter racks) [75]

Kabalite Warriors x10 [80]
Raider (dark lance, splinter racks) [75]

Kabalite Warriors x10 [80]
Raider (dark lance, splinter racks) [75]

Scourge x5 (haywire blaster x4) [120]
Scourge x5 (heat lance x4) [120]

Reavers x3 (blaster) [58]

Talos (TL splinter cannon) [120]
Talos (TL splinter cannon) [120]
Talos (TL splinter cannon) [120]

1458

As for painting, I cannot wait to try out my new airbrush and compressor. A nice xmas present to myself and I figured I needed a new army to break it in. Hopefully the learning curve isn't too steep, but I figured with Dark Eldar you only really need about 2 or 3 base colours to concentrate on.

This isn't bad for casual games, but I'd still like to throw in my two cents. 

Heatlances are interesting.  They're priced about right for what you get, but they're (oddly enough) kind of a generalist weapon instead of a specialist weapon. Haywire blasters do a better job of hunting vehicles, and blasters can insta-gib T4 and wound MCs more reliably (albeit at a slightly higher price).  The heat lance is in a weird middle ground where it's worse at popping most vehicles, requires you get dangerously close to get the most out of, and yet lacks the raw power of a blaster. Personally, I always run my scourges as pure haywire blasters, pure splinter carbines, or pure blasters, and then sprinkle in solarite upgrades to taste.  Given the relatively low amount of ranged anti tank in your army, I'd lean towards either blasters or haywire blasters. Your Talos are what you'll want to kill most 2+ saves with.  Heat lances aren't really a bad choice, they're just a generalist pick that is worse at most of the jobs you probably want them to do than the other gun options. Also, you should probably never run shredders. :(

Trueborn are a good unit, but I wouldn't run them with your archon as you have him.  "Blasterborn" as they're commonly known are a shooty anti-tank unit.  They want to shoot at vehicles, MCs, or TEQs, from the safety of their transports and then never leave.  They're squishy and expensive meaning you're bleeding points when you let your opponent shoot at them out in the open.  The webwayportal archon with the blasterborn will give you a half-decent anti-tank punch, and then you'll be evaporated in a hail of lowly bolter fire.  I'm not a huge fan of dracons with lots of toys (even though they're really cool conceptually), and I generally advise against sticking them in the same squad as your archon. Too squishy and too expensive.  I'd only even really consider it if I were building a trueborn melee squad (all double melee weapons), and I don't really recommend that either.

Now, let's talk about your archon. The archon you've built wants to go the melee route meaning you want to stick him in a melee squad.  If you're on a budget and like the idea of the archon's court, you might consider a purely lhamean court in a venom or raider.  If you drop a single talos or if you drop the webwayportal and the reavers, you'll be close to having enough points for a venom or raider and some lhameans to ride inside it.  Lhameans hit almost as hard as grotesques, but they're much squishier.  Your shadowfield can help offset that a bit, and it gives you a fast melee unit to balance out the slowness of your taloi. Lhamean models are expensive, but you can convert some easily with wyches OR you can look into using some dark elf fantasy minis as proxies. I went the former route recently because the pricetag was daunting and because monopose squads can be irksome.

All that said, you might also consider going the "shooty" route with the archon.  Since you seem to favor raiders over venoms, you could fit the archon in the raider with them after all (despite what I said above) and give your archon a blaster and not much else.  This makes for an expensive single shot blaster, but it also means your HQ choice is relatively inexpensive overall.  Not lhamean cheap, but cheap.  It lets him help out the trueborn dakka, and it might just push their firepower over the edge to kill a target instead of just softening it up.  If you go this route, I still advise against going sans transport, and I still don't love spending lots of points on melee gear for a pair of characters in a squad that mostly wants to sit back and shoot. 

No matter what direction you go, consider giving that archon some haywire grenades!  They're one of the best ways to spend 5 points in the game.  If you're going tank hunting, they give you a way to glance a vehicle to death instead of exploding it and are more likely to hurt high AV targets than a blaster (despite the lance rule).  If you ever get charged by a walker, they can save your life, especially when paired with a shadow field.  The parasite's kiss is fun, but I find my archon usually goes from 3 wounds to 0 in a single round of violence (especially if you're trying to tank with him), so I rarely benefit from it. Even if I do benefit from it, I've already lost the shadow field at that point meaning its usefulness is limited. What I'm saying is that, if you really can't find the points for haywires anywhere else, consider dropping the kiss for them unless you're really in love with the kiss.

Oh, and have fun raiding the galaxy! :D


Offline dog_of_war

  • Aspect Warrior
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 585
  • Country: ca
  • Armies: Orks, Chaos Space Marines, Eldar, Dark Eldar
Re: 1500 point list - Where do I put my Archon
« Reply #7 on: January 9, 2017, 08:11:55 AM »
Those are all fantastic points. I originally planned on taking the blasters with the scourges, but I'm limited on the number of bits I have. I do however have lots of dark lances. I don't think taking dark lances with scourges are a good idea, (unless someone can make an argument for them) as they take away their mobility, but how about taking them with Trueborn and camping them. I'll kit out one unit of scourges with haywire blasters and the other with all blasters.

I also love the idea of converting Llamenan from wyches, which I have a lot. I could splurge on a venom and take four Llamenan with the archon or go WWP and take a larger unit. The venom should keep them safer, in theory.

Offline Wyldhunt

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1445
Re: 1500 point list - Where do I put my Archon
« Reply #8 on: January 9, 2017, 08:39:34 PM »
Those are all fantastic points. I originally planned on taking the blasters with the scourges, but I'm limited on the number of bits I have. I do however have lots of dark lances. I don't think taking dark lances with scourges are a good idea, (unless someone can make an argument for them) as they take away their mobility, but how about taking them with Trueborn and camping them. I'll kit out one unit of scourges with haywire blasters and the other with all blasters.

I also love the idea of converting Llamenan from wyches, which I have a lot. I could splurge on a venom and take four Llamenan with the archon or go WWP and take a larger unit. The venom should keep them safer, in theory.

There is not a single infantry/jump infantry model in our codex that wants to have a dark lance.  I suggest either using them as "long barelled blasters" (basically just use them as blasters) or else saving up several of them and then eventually using them to convert up some corsair jetpackers with dark lances.

Between a WWp and a venom for a squad of lhameans, always go with the venom. Venoms are good in their own right and offer the passengers protection and mobility. A webway portaling squad of lhameans is just inviting your opponent to a free kill point as you have to sit around not assaulting after arriving from reserves.

Offline dog_of_war

  • Aspect Warrior
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 585
  • Country: ca
  • Armies: Orks, Chaos Space Marines, Eldar, Dark Eldar
Re: 1500 point list - Where do I put my Archon
« Reply #9 on: January 9, 2017, 09:53:21 PM »
Thanks for the advice. I am really digging the idea of converting the Lhamaean. I definitely want to think about adding the grotesques/raider unit, but I think I'll leave that for when I enlarge the army. Now the question is; do I go for a small unit for the court and add the archon into a venom or do I take a larger unit in a raider and maybe tag on a second HQ into the unit? That might be making it too big of a target, but I can add aether sails and night shields to help dart up the board.

Offline Cavalier

  • High Corsair Prince of Painting | Warlock
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1856
  • Country: us
  • Renegade Autarch
  • Armies: Eldar, Dark Angels, World Eaters
Re: 1500 point list - Where do I put my Archon
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2017, 06:46:36 AM »
Tough question. A raider with nightshields and an aether sail is still very fragile... especially when people know its got a nasty melee unit in there. The Venom while slightly more fragile is easier to hide and less of a points investment as either way the Lhameans are gonna get rocked if it explodes. Its why I like the Grotesques a lot since the exploding raiders hardly effect them and they can hoof it across the board with their high toughness and multiple wounds so long as their is some cover. I strongly recommend the Grotesques, but if you pumped for the Lhameans and have the models on hand I totally understand.

I'd say go with the Venom and really be crafty with positioning it and keep things cheap! Therefore when you scale-up the army and you like the unit you can keep it as a small utility unit and you'll have a Venom right on hand.

Very interesting with those Lahemeans. It'll be a very cool experiment. Let us know how they do if you go down that route. But definitely recommend the Grotesques!
Check out my army! Eldar Corsair Army

I'm also on the Splintermind Podcast! http://www.facebook.com/splintermindpodcast/

Offline magenb

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 683
  • Country: au
  • I *LOVE* 40k Online!
Re: 1500 point list - Where do I put my Archon
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2017, 08:54:18 PM »
Best place for an Archon with some CWE :)


Don't under estimate the shenanigans a blob of KW's can do when paired up with an Archon with a WWP, especially since you're not facing much AV any way.

Have a listen to splintermind pod casts too, lately they have been finding ways to use the meh choices like mandrakes.

Offline dog_of_war

  • Aspect Warrior
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 585
  • Country: ca
  • Armies: Orks, Chaos Space Marines, Eldar, Dark Eldar
Re: 1500 point list - Where do I put my Archon
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2017, 09:31:56 PM »
Completely see the benefits of using a WWP to drop a large blob of shuriken or splinter fire into you enemies midst.

I'm just such a purist, I can't take it upon myself to use allies in a list.

I'll definitely check out those podcasts. I don't like running power lists, but I do like learning how to use units that people don't expect and are typically written off by others.

Offline Wyldhunt

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1445
Re: 1500 point list - Where do I put my Archon
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2017, 09:42:11 PM »
I advise against taking a second HQ with your lhamean unit.  Part of what makes lhameans appealing (to me) is that they hit really hard while being really cheap.  Sticking another HQ with them not only makes them more of a target, it also makes them less cost effective.  Also, Dark Eldar aren't normally very good at big, expensive units.  Outside of certain coven formations like the corpse thief, that is.  You usually want to have lots of smaller targets so that A.) your opponent has trouble figuring out what to target and B.) you aren't completely wrecked when you lose something.

Offline dog_of_war

  • Aspect Warrior
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 585
  • Country: ca
  • Armies: Orks, Chaos Space Marines, Eldar, Dark Eldar
Re: 1500 point list - Where do I put my Archon
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2017, 10:03:31 PM »
What would your guys thoughts be on dropping a raider unit of kabalite warriors, leaving two units in raiders and adding a second archon with a big blob of warriors and a WWP? I think I'd still like to keep the Lhameans in the viper. Would they be able to work on their own, as a melee unit or do they have to have someone to tank for them?

Offline Cavalier

  • High Corsair Prince of Painting | Warlock
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1856
  • Country: us
  • Renegade Autarch
  • Armies: Eldar, Dark Angels, World Eaters
Re: 1500 point list - Where do I put my Archon
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2017, 07:32:40 AM »
IMO there isn't much reason to WWP in a huge unit of Kabalites. With Splinter Rack Raiders, Venoms etc. you have the range and speed to bring those weapons to bear very easily. Furthermore if you ever find yourself with the need to deepstrike a whole mess of warriors, Raiders and Venoms can deepstrike. The main advantage of the WWP is getting short range weapons exactly where you need them without having to endure any kind of return fire as you make your way up the board.

As for the Lahmeans yeah you probably want the Archon in there. As anything in cover is gonna be hitting first, not to mention you want him taking overwatch as they go in.

Check out my army! Eldar Corsair Army

I'm also on the Splintermind Podcast! http://www.facebook.com/splintermindpodcast/

 


Powered by EzPortal