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Author Topic: Any Tips or Suggestions for Facing Space Marines?  (Read 4191 times)

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Online Roboknee77

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Any Tips or Suggestions for Facing Space Marines?
« on: September 20, 2016, 10:28:26 AM »
I will be facing my friend Wyddr on the field of battle with my green skins against his Imperial Fists and wondered if there were any general tips/suggestions when facing Space Marines?

Offline Killersquid

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Re: Any Tips or Suggestions for Facing Space Marines?
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2016, 11:29:44 AM »
The main advantage marines have against orks, is that their ranged weapons are devastating. There are two main ways to mitigate that.

First, is by being very fast with multiple units to prevent how long he's shooting you and so he cannot focus fire. Many 10 man mobs in trucks with powerfist nobs can surge across the table. The truck mobs are so cheap, that if he takes out one or two, that's fine, as you'll still have enough to tie him up.

Second is by being really tough. A large mob of orks with 'evy armour and a painboy are crazy tough. T4, with a 4+ save and feel no pain, doesn't care about rapid firing bolters. and are (on paper) more resilient then space marines. This can be a very hard unit to shift, especially if you have 25-30 models in the units (and take a couple of them!)

Besides that, take fire support and fast units of your choice. Lootas, tank busta's, bikes and storm boyz can all be good.
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Offline dog_of_war

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Re: Any Tips or Suggestions for Facing Space Marines?
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2016, 02:32:08 PM »
I'd focus on combining either a green tide horde or boyz in trukks to overwhelm him along with some armour in the way of dreads and kans.

I'd definitely look into taking lots of rokkits for their AP. Koptas/buggies, tankbustas, and kannons would be a great addition to take out some power armour.

Online Roboknee77

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Re: Any Tips or Suggestions for Facing Space Marines?
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2016, 02:42:18 PM »
Thank you both for your input.  I was thinking about rokkits as well as using kannons instead of lobbas for my mek guns to work against the armor I'm expecting to see.

I've got some trukks on order and some koptas flying in for my army.  I'm hoping the trukks will close the gap between armys quickly and individual koptas will be able to harass the flanks of his army.

Offline magenb

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Re: Any Tips or Suggestions for Facing Space Marines?
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2016, 11:21:52 PM »
Don't over look bikes, faced a horde of those a couple of times now, couldn't make enough of a dent to slow them down. Alot of armies now expect to see armour on the table, so there is a fair amount of high Strength low volume fire which will struggle to be useful againt that.

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Re: Any Tips or Suggestions for Facing Space Marines?
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2016, 02:39:32 AM »
Biker troops would help out greatly.  You kinda still can do that with the 7th Edition codex and the 6th Edition update for Imperial Armor 8 pdf, but in my mind that's a bit too rule lawyer-e.

In my games against SMurfs, I've always found the long range support of Kannons, Lootas, and SAG Meks the most effective against the variety of SM armies.  I don't know what Wyddr's army looks like, but most of the SM's I've seen lately are of the Battle Company variety for the free Transports (seriously GW you give SM free transports but make Orks pay for Shootas now?!  Mini-rant over).  If you think he might be going in that direction, grab extra AT from Buggies, Trukks, Tankbustas, and/or Koptas where you can.

In my experience I've found that I really dig the small suicide distraction units such as an Outflanking Buggy.  If you end up taking 2 or more CADs its really easy to wedge in 6 or more buggies into those unused slots, and on the Outflank they can get some nice potshots in against rear armor.  Of course Koptas can do the same, but I've always been a Buggy man.

If your area is going Flyer heavy with Death From the Skies, I would recommend the Kustom Wazmob formation.  The only drawback to that formation is the hideous price tag, both in points and cash.  In my experience Flyer wings work best in the 2 group Vigilance pattern, but its hard to turn down the mobile KFF, especially when it grants the Flyer group a 3++.

No matter how you devise your list, easily the best piece of kit is Da Finking Cap.  The Strategic traits table is amazing, doubly so with Orks who need every scrap of help they can get.  In my opinion the best possible outcome for Warlord traits is Conqueror of Cities and Master of Ambush, as both massively help Ork armies, particularly when they're Footsloggers.

Post your list Roboknee, along with whatever else you may have on the sideline and I'm sure that we can all band together to maximize its damage potential, as well as give more advice and tactical ideas.

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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Any Tips or Suggestions for Facing Space Marines?
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2016, 06:31:30 AM »
Should be noted that this will be a 1000 point game, gents. Tailor your advice accordingly.

Offline SKEETERGOD

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Re: Any Tips or Suggestions for Facing Space Marines?
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2016, 10:00:30 AM »
The list I use to do some krumping against the SMs is as follows

Boss with heavy armor, boss pole, head whoppa, TL shoota, and cybork. Allows him to fight at initiative with chance of insta-killing his opponent.

Pain boy

4 loads of truck boys. 11 boys with choppas, 1 nob with boss pole and PK, truck with ram and wrecking ball.

1 load of Ard boys. 10 ard boys with choppas.(no nob) Boss and pain boy ride here, and this is one hard to kill unit. Truck same as truck boys. The Ard boys and Pain boy are there as a Boss delivery system. My boss kitted as above has never been killed in CC or in a challenge (even against a demon prince) but you gotta watch out for those pesky shooting things so use the truck to get in close fast.

Once your are in hugging range the boys get out of their trucks and do what orks do best. The trucks if not killed can go around using their wrecking balls to do cool stuff to armor and bikers.
 
3 death coptas each with TL rockits and saw (three squadrons of one)

IF you want, you can delete a boy per squad and add a grot rigger to the truck kit to get that "it will not die" rule. I have found it isn't worth the points as when trucks get shot up they usually get destroyed, so no chance to use the rule.

I hope that helps, and gives you a starting point to run a great speed freak army. (hoping to get you to give up on the kan wall thing... ;) )
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Online Roboknee77

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Re: Any Tips or Suggestions for Facing Space Marines?
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2016, 08:48:09 AM »
I don't have the exact copy of the list with me at work, but the basics are:

Warboss w/ 'Eavy Armor, TL Shoota & PK

11 Shoota Boys w/ One Big Shoota

(2x) 12 Shoota Boys w/ One Big Shoota and Nob w/ Shoota and PK

3 Dedicated Transport Trukks

1 Deff Dread w/ One Extra PK and Grot Rigger

5 Mek Gunz (debating between looba or kannon, the kannon may be better against the armor of the Marines.)

15 Lootas

(3) Individual Deffkoptas w/ TL Rokkits

I think that comes to 999 points.  I could probably drop the number of Lootas by 5 to grab 70 more points to play with, like adding choppas or buzzsaws or 'eavy armor.

Offline dog_of_war

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Re: Any Tips or Suggestions for Facing Space Marines?
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2016, 01:13:50 PM »
I like it. I'm still not sold on lootas that aren't protected by a battle wagon and they're going to be marine priority number one, so they probably won't survive turn 1 and definitely not turn 2.

Trade the lootas for kans and keep them with the dread to prevent cowardly grots. Arm them with grotzookas or rokkits and see the marines tremble in their power armour.

Online Roboknee77

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Re: Any Tips or Suggestions for Facing Space Marines?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2016, 01:36:03 PM »
Well, hopefully he will have too much to think about with 3 Trukks and a Deff Dread charging toward him and 3 Deffkoptas taking pot shots at his flank to focus too much attention on my poor lootas and Mek Gunz.

I think as I get more units and the point level rises I'll be using the Kans a little more.  I like the idea of them as a mobile artillery.

Online Roboknee77

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Re: Any Tips or Suggestions for Facing Space Marines?
« Reply #11 on: October 6, 2016, 09:51:53 AM »
Well, I played a spectacularly hilarious battle against the Space Marines.  In the end, the only units to "survive" were a Blitza-Bomba and my Warboss who didn't die but couldn't make a leadership test and fleed off the board to let the rest of my Ork know where the Space Marines were.  Wyddr will be posting the batrep in a week or two.  Even though I got tabled I had a blast and learned a bit more about playing Orks and what to prepare for against Space Marines.

Skeeter, after the game, I was talking to Wyddr about your list and he said the list you suggested, and these may not have been his exact words, "was a bit scary since he didn't know how he could stop all five trukks from getting to him."  So, I'll be putting some thought into that list the next time I go into battle.

Dog, you were right about the lootas being priority one.  Got to think of ways to make them more durable.

Offline SKEETERGOD

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Re: Any Tips or Suggestions for Facing Space Marines?
« Reply #12 on: October 6, 2016, 05:00:39 PM »
Well, your boss didn't get killed so you didn't lose. (remember: Orks never lose!) The boss just went back for some more boys. Not to mention, who are you going to believe; an ork warboss telling you he didn't lose, or some squishy umies who think they won?

Good stuff, now get stuck back in...
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Skeetergod: (adj) A crazy fascination for all things combustible mixed with an unhealty lust for red paint. see also Speed Freak

Offline Wyddr

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Re: Any Tips or Suggestions for Facing Space Marines?
« Reply #13 on: October 6, 2016, 10:15:57 PM »
Dog, you were right about the lootas being priority one.  Got to think of ways to make them more durable.

Sticking them in a Battlewagon is about your only option. Or taking several units of them. In either event, you're investing a lot of points for durability and you'll have to ask yourself if you might just be better served by different weapons to perform the same job.

And, in general, I can still totally alpha-strike Lootas off the board with a lot of different armies. They are just so high threat and so squishy, it's hard not to.

Offline dog_of_war

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Re: Any Tips or Suggestions for Facing Space Marines?
« Reply #14 on: October 7, 2016, 08:44:37 AM »
There are so many other superior heavy choices in the codex that I'm always Leary to take lootas when I can get so much more for the same points. They also seem way to specialized for an ork unit; they can't move and shoot well and they are terrible in close combat. Doesn't sound too orky to me.  ;)

Online Roboknee77

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Re: Any Tips or Suggestions for Facing Space Marines?
« Reply #15 on: October 7, 2016, 10:10:28 AM »
They are very much a glass cannon unit and a priority to take out.  I like they idea that they can through out so much dakka but if they die in 1 or 2 rounds they don't have a real chance to do it.  I may proxy them as Flash Gits in a battle just to try that unit out for myself.  I've got to play around and see what orkiness works for me.

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Re: Any Tips or Suggestions for Facing Space Marines?
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2016, 06:03:50 PM »
Flash gits are nobs with good guns. Add a pain-boy to the unit, and they can withstand a lot of punishment. They are a bit pricy points wise, so be prepared to take smaller units. I like flash gits, especially if they are in cover or in a truck. They are not the best unit for the points, but they are fun.

A better unit is to take buggies with TL rockits. No LD check, and they are cheap both points and cash. Try it you'll like it. Of course, now you have competition for those fast attack slots. Decisions, decisions... Coptas or Buggies or bikes... Tough call, but against marines I would use buggies instead of lootas.
"It needs but one foe to breed a war. And even those who have not swords can still die upon them" (Lady Eowyn)
     We orks are not about being the hero; We orks are about being the mob.
                         
Quote from: angel of death 007
Skeetergod: (adj) A crazy fascination for all things combustible mixed with an unhealty lust for red paint. see also Speed Freak

Online Roboknee77

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Re: Any Tips or Suggestions for Facing Space Marines?
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2016, 09:32:53 AM »
They look fun, they are Ork Pirates after all.  I'll have to keep buggies in mind for the next battle break because it will be back to Daemons for the next three battles.  Unless my other friend finally has some free time, then I will get to face of against some Eldar in a 500 point game.

Post Merge: October 12, 2016, 05:48:37 PM
In the future, please use the modify button. Double posting is against the forum rules, and for that reason, the system merged your posts.

Wyddr has posted the Battle Report.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 05:48:37 PM by Roboknee77 »

Offline dog_of_war

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Re: Any Tips or Suggestions for Facing Space Marines?
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2016, 10:22:40 PM »
What a troublesome time you had with those beakies. I'll give you a couple of hints for next time and hopefully Wyddr doesn't skulk around these threads to gleam any orky knowledge.

I've got some experience with ork walkers and I have experienced terrible times against armies with krak and melta grenades. Now the unoffical GW suggestion has been to change the ruling to only one member of the unit can use a grenade in assault, which would have made your dread much more survivable. But, if you guys are sticking to rules as written, then I have some suggestions for you.

When using a dread to assault an infantry unit with lots of armour penetrating grenades or powerfists or other high strength weaponry, the key to beating them is in the multiple assault. Use your boyz to assault the unit first, which will hopefully whittle the unit down slightly, but will most likely engage all of his models with your boyz. read Big Rule Book page 55 under Move Initial Charger With all of his models engaged with your boyz, as a second charge in the same turn or in subsequent turns you bring in your walker. The walker must make it into base contact with one of his other models, but you can choose where. You can stay away from his power fist or reduce the number of grenade attacks against your walker. With his models engaged, he cannot reposition them to focus attacks on your walker, only if he kills the enemy models he is in base contact with and then he is able to engage your walker with his 3" pile-in move, but then he still cannot attack until the subsequent turn. read BRB page 55 Directing Attacks

By doing so, you force him to split his attacks between your units and if you're smart and are able to strategize in advance, you can effectively nullify any dangers to your walker, while your walker can deliver all of its devastating attacks on your opponent.

Some other suggestions would have been to outflank the koptas, keeping them off the board only to spring into action and hopefully get some rear armour shots on his dread. It may have also been useful to throw a buzzsaw on one of the koptas to make it more deadly in close combat. It also looks like you didn't split up your koptas. Please, please, please, if you have the empty slots, take the koptas as single model units. He'll waste time trying to shoot down a single kopta with a whole unit, while you jink and keep the other one safe. There is very little point to keeping them together and if you lose one in a unit, your taking a leadership test. Stick with single ork units at all costs where possible.

Lootas met the fate I predicted. If you're going to take that many in a unit you need to protect them. Otherwise, if you're determined to keep them, split them into two units of 5. It'll at least slow Wyddr down in wiping them off the table. The problem with two units of five, is that you'll lose another heavy slot.

Trukk mobz are fine in my books, but not putting a nob in a unit is not normally a wise idea. Skeeter has always referred to boyz as a nob delivery system.

The nob is what is going to win you combat. Even if you're taking shoota boyz, their primary goal is to get into close combat. Big choppas are great and I love taking them, but don't be afraid to mix in some power klaws. It's great to get a high strength hit on a marine, but with power armour saves, it might be for nothing. I usually put the big choppa on the warboss, as he has a higher base strength and then power klaws for the nobs. Or better yet, give the warboss a killchoppa for some nice insta-death shenanigans.

Online Roboknee77

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Re: Any Tips or Suggestions for Facing Space Marines?
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2016, 03:46:20 PM »
Troublesome but fun.  It was probably the funnest battle I've had so far.

I'm pretty sure Wyddr's got some Commandos hiding in the bushes to keep an eye on us Orks to make sure we don't get out of hand.  ;)  But I'm not too worried, he's got about 2 decades of experience on me so he's probably faced a few tricks I haven't even thought of yet.

The Koptas were in separate slots, just close together for ease of movement.  I probably could have spaced them out a little more but I'm still learning.

I like the Lootas and the really do strike fear into Wyddr.  I see my two options being a battlewagon for armor or a big mek w/ KFF to help protect against shooting attacks.

I will keep the power klaw nobz in mind when I'm up against Marines again.  I need to remember strength vs. toughness and I don't have all the units stats down yet.

After the insane armor saves of Marines I will be happy with the squishier daemons, even if their psychic powers make my head hurt.

 


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