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Author Topic: Spirit Stones and The Warp  (Read 1664 times)

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Offline Foalchu

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Spirit Stones and The Warp
« on: February 8, 2016, 02:30:06 PM »
So with the newest eldar codex it seems there are some contradictions with regards to spirit stones/way stones, how they are formed and what exactly they are. 

Reading through the most recent thread about eldar and spirit stones here, I found someone saying that way stones are the crystallized soul of an eldar trapped on the crime worlds during the fall.  This is difficult to wrap my head around for several reasons. 

First, if a way stone is the soul of a croneworld eldar, how is it that this soul escaped consumption by Slaanesh despite being right next to its crib when it was born? 

Second, if it is the soul of a croneworld eldar who somehow wasn't eaten, is this to say that there is a finite supply of eldar souls?  This makes little sense, as the. The eldar could never have increased beyond their initial population at "creation," without the vast majority of eldar being soulless drones.

Third, if way stones are the souls of crime world eldar, and there are only a finite number of unconsumed souls in existence, how do you transfer the soul from the stone to an eldar child?

Fourth, with the only means to ensure reproduction being limited to ridiculously dangerous journeys into their predator's back yard to recover hundreds of stones at a time (at most), how have the eldar not died out completely?  If this were the only means of safe reproduction, the number of births across the craftworlds and exodite worlds would be limited to the number of souls tones recovered in that year, where deaths from natural causes, war and disaster would most certainly not be limited. 

Fifth, if we accept all the previous points, the eldar would have a quickly shrinking population, and would have no need to colonize maiden worlds at all.  This is directly contradicted in the fluff, which mentions several colonies of biel tan and iyanden. 

In short, unless spirit stones are not a necessity for reproduction, or are able to be made artificially by manipulating warp energy, the eldar would presumably be a faction of a few still functioning wraith constructs.

So, my questions are the following: are there other ways of making way stones, are they necessary for safe reproduction, are those way stones that form in the eye of terror only formed by croneworld eldar souls, and how did croneworld eldar souls even avoid being consumed by Slaanesh in the first place?
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Offline Irisado

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Re: Spirit Stones and The Warp
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2016, 12:27:14 PM »
Could you link to the post where this was mentioned?  It would be helpful to see the context in which this was being discussed.

I've been looking through my sources here and I cannot locate a reference to support the concept that spirit stones could be the souls of a croneworld Eldar.  In addition, spirit stones/waystones are filled when an Eldar dies, so I'm struggling to see where the idea that they can be filled beforehand comes from.
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Offline Foalchu

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Re: Spirit Stones and The Warp
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2016, 01:29:03 PM »
From the thread on this board, "Eldar Theorizing;"

The spirit stone are created from the cristalisation of the spirit of the trapped spirit of the eldar before the fall on the crone world in the eye of the terror. I can't recall every details, but they are cristalised at a certain point in time and therefore can only be caught at certain moment. Stone not picked up return to there spirit form and wait here tourmented, to be either eaten or brought back by some adventurer to come. [...] The spirit in the spirit stone, upon being brought back to the craftworld, and given to a newborn eldar, will accomode his psychic wave to match the child's, creatting a protection for his spirit starting this instance and for the rest of his life.

I also posted this on the 40klore Reddit last night an got some interesting replies with the general conclusions being that way stones are formed by the stresses put on both warp space and real space by the interaction of the two with some base material found on the crone worlds (presumably wraithbone).

It's a pretty quick jump from that to the realization that spirit stone equivalents are already manufactured by the dark eldar, though for a different purpose, and probably with a much more painful process of transferring the soul; they're called soul traps.
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Offline Irisado

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Re: Spirit Stones and The Warp
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2016, 02:14:41 PM »
That comes from the Path of the Outcast, which I haven't read.

It's possible, based on that, to make the case that there may be a finite supply of Spirit Stones.  However, given the extent of the Eldar empire before the fall and their current low numbers and birth rate, it's also possible to argue that there would be more than enough Spirit Stones to sustain the Eldar race for quite some time.

It's pretty difficult to even offer speculative answers in response to your other questions, given how little information that GW has published on this subject.
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Offline magenb

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Re: Spirit Stones and The Warp
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2016, 09:29:44 PM »
the wh40k lexicanum has a rather good explaination.

Basicaly the stones are crystallization of psychic energies. So it would make sense that they would appear where this is most abundant.. the eye of terror or around warp gates.

That is the most consistent message I've seen from codexes over the years and still allows for the potential of world stones of the exodites. The explenation in the path of the outcast, does not really allow for an obelisk sized crytsal...



Offline magenb

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Re: Spirit Stones and The Warp
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2016, 05:13:39 PM »
I went over the original white dwarf material. The spirit stone "existed for as long as the Eldar can remember." It goes on to describe the creation myth under the "Dance of Asuryan". Which clearly states these stones existed before the fall, basically just after the Eldar were banished to the mortal realm, as a way for the Eldar to continue to speak to Gods and vice versa.

It goes on to describe the spirit stone as a "glass spheres" (later codex describe them as crystal like) that respond to "psychic enmanations", which will change colour depending on the psyker holding them. It then goes into some detain on how these stones are used to create wraithbone, runes, etc.

Waystones are small versions of the spirit stones, which are used to capture the eldar souls on death, which are then implanted back into the wraithbone to eventually grow into the larger into spiriti stone size, where the soul is then released into the infinity circuit. The Soul can be removed from IC using another waystone.

The older stuff has waay better fluff :)

So, my questions are the following: 1) are there other ways of making way stones, 2) are they necessary for safe reproduction, 3) are those way stones that form in the eye of terror only formed by croneworld eldar souls, and how did croneworld eldar souls even avoid being consumed by Slaanesh in the first place?

so going back to your questions..

1) I don't see anything that says they can manufacture the stones.However given they "grow" it might be plausable to chip away part of a spirit stone to make a waystone. I would imagine it would be a rather slow process to grow a crystal though, so trips into the eye of the terror may still be needed to collect sufficient stones.

2) It appears the stones are only needed at death, so one would assume they are not required in the reproduction phase. It may be a common practise for Eldar to be given a waystone a short time after they are born though?

3) Given the myth says Vaul made them out of Isha tears before the fall, I can't follow the logic that they are crystalized croneworld eldar souls. I could see that in the intial feast, she may have been a messy eater so a portion may have been missed, but in the drought since, I would imagine she would have picked those worlds clean by now.

The idea that waystones are formed where the warp and real space interact, such as in the eye of terror or warp gates, sounds more plausable.

Offline Kage2020

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Re: Spirit Stones and The Warp
« Reply #6 on: April 2, 2016, 03:19:24 PM »
The idea that waystones are formed where the warp and real space interact, such as in the eye of terror or warp gates, sounds more plausable.
If you have a penchant for reading truth into the myths, then the idea of spirit stones being forged from the "tears" of Isha has some traction insofar as it parallels the fate of Kaela Mensha Khaine following the birth of Slaanesh. There the transition from the divine/warp into the mundane universe had a consequent material focus. It also becomes a rather obvious metaphor for what is otherwise a liminal space 'twixt life and death.

So, yeah, for consistency having them form at warp/material space boundaries makes the most sense.

Of course, if you really want to bake your noodle then throw the 'ole Spirit Warriors into the mix with their "soul grafting." Couple that with the aforementioned information as to the use of spirit stones (in the previous post) and the fact that Waystones become spirit stones once they are implanted into the Infinity Circuit...

^_^

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« Last Edit: April 2, 2016, 03:22:50 PM by Kage2020 »

 


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