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Author Topic: Thoughts on the game...  (Read 2534 times)

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Offline Ork E Nuff

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Thoughts on the game...
« on: September 4, 2015, 01:54:05 PM »
Greetings to my spore born brethren...

I've been thinking as of late about the nature of the game and where it might be headed. 

We've all seen what happened to WFB and the new AoS.  What has it done to the game?  Spurred a renewal of interest, but at my local gaming store, not much else.  3 out of about 25+ play it with any regularity.  The amputation of the rules, the loss of some of the more regularly anticipated units (we all know the uber units that people love to play), and the overall feel is different.

Couldn't happen to 40K I hear some say...The hell you say says I.  Perusing other blogs that address 40k (yes I admit it...I cheat on 40K Online...I'm so ashamed...), there are a lot of rumors abounding that a new 30K set is on the horizon, and that there will be a distinctive shift in GW emphasis on models, codices, productions, etc...Of course, rumors to me are strictly that, rumors...but they do get me to wondering...

Now, here's my question to the body at large:  What would a shift in rules, production, actually EVERYTHING, mean to the orks?  If we find the emphasis on the game taking a dramatic step backwards (i.e. 10 thousand years in the fluff/rules) where does that leave us?  Remember, according to the canonized fluff, the Great Crusade dealt with expansion, the HH dealt with betrayal and civil war, the Imperium dealt with, well, us.  So, if GW emphasis does shift, where does that leave us?  Granted, we could still be viable opponents for the "legions", but where does that leave our "named" special characters/leaders/meks?

Maybe I'm jumping at shadows...but I can't help that thought coming into play...

Something to think about...my 2 teef...
Later
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Offline dog_of_war

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Re: Thoughts on the game...
« Reply #1 on: September 4, 2015, 02:21:17 PM »
Interesting ideas. Maybe we get to go back and trace some of the origins of the orks. Maybe brain boyz will make their appearance. Honestly I don't think you can have a futuristic gaming environment without aliens and orks fit the mold well as a counterpart to a less scientifically advanced imperium. If you're also going the way of Age of Sigmar and focus more on the fun and entertainment value of the game, orks are your boyz. Just imagine having a rule that yelling Waaagh! gets you an extra three inches on your charge, or some other fun rule like actually painting your trukks red gives you further movement. Leave 40k for the power playing lists. I'd be interested in playing a quirky game with my boys. If you play orks, you play more to have fun than to win. But then again, orks never lose.

Offline SKEETERGOD

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Re: Thoughts on the game...
« Reply #2 on: September 9, 2015, 09:19:46 AM »
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you on this one. Darn RL...

Over the years I have seen the meta change, from the uber "must have to win" units, that changed with every new codex release, to armored columns, and now air power. Yes at my local, air power is the newest meta. Seems everyone has multiple flying things, and the guns to shoot down the other players flying things (except orks, unless you use IA8).

We have one guy whose army is only a few guys and 9 planes. Off the top of my head he has an IG army of one big HQ, one little HQ, four units of vets, six valkyries and three vendettas. (I think that is right, maybe the vendetta is the troop carrier, so switch the numbers if so) And other armies, even space marines have gone flyer heavy. It is rare to face an opponent that has less than three flyers.

I tried to go super heavy with my Skullhamma tank, but air power seems to trump even super heavies. Now, I find that I must go with as much anti air as I can, or be picked off the board by strafing runs. It seems the new multi FoC/unbound list has many power players still drooling at all the uber stuff that can be squeezed in. At my local though, you have to have permission from your opponent to play an unbound list, but, I haven't seen too many cases where a game was refused (only one, where he has all wraith knights).

While I still enjoy playing, (it is better than working) the overall fun seems to go away when there is nothing you can do about your opponents army, as it is flying all around you, and you can't even declare a waaagh as there is nothing to charge. It seems that GW went on an anti ork binge, and to me the game has suffered. The result of this last codex has seen my local go from four or five ork players to only one. Yes, I admit, I have been sorely tempted to dust off my eldar and leave the orks till next edition. ( I Still own about 3k of Saim Hann models)

So, maybe a "reversion" to a new (??) younger time might be a good thing. Where umies haven't got all those new gizmos and know whats. That space marines are just hard shell umies that put up a better fight than the regular squishy ones. Sure, I would be happy to give up the current crop of named characters, most of which appeared at Armageddon, for a new batch of characters. Or, maybe, no named characters at all as the orks haven't yet started their own legends because they too are just starting their expansion. Where the idea of a stompa hasn't yet occurred to the orks as they haven't yet seen big killy things yet. Where interstellar waaagh hasn't yet dawned on the orks tribes. Then, only krumping matters, the biggest is the meanest and the leader, so umies are not so big and need to be taught by the orks the propa way to run a civilization.  Sounds fun to me.

My favorite game (a few years back) was GorkaMorka (and Mordenheim). Maybe a version of that style gaming where you have warbands rather than armies. Where your own warband can increase in ability and skill and numbers as well as decrease all that as you suffer casualties. Where the game is more about the telling of a story than simply the actually winning of an one off fight. That sounds like an excellent way to go.

Now, you did it. I am going to be chomping at the bit waiting for 30K to show up. Hope I am not disappointed. I will end my rambling here as I might go over the edge and start telling you all about how GW used to have world wide campaigns...

My two teef.
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Offline adamscurr

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Re: Thoughts on the game...
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2015, 08:33:24 PM »
Hi guys... Been a while for me as well...  I'm really disappointed in the direction GW has decided to go. I just don't want to play a game where people can pretty much bend the rules to bring whatever the heck they want, I don't even want to make ork lists that do that because in order to be even a little effective, you have to have a bazzillon HQ's and no boyz...  Boyz are the heart of an ork army and without heaps of them, it doesn't feel right... 

Anyhow, didn't mean to come on and gripe, I just haven't been able to get excited about GW for a while and my orks are just getting dusty in my barn; heck my gargant has a pretty solid layer on him and I noticed that an arms has come loose.  :-\

But, it's good to see you guys here! :)


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Offline Ollieb

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Re: Thoughts on the game...
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2015, 03:13:26 PM »
Sadly I am also one of those guys who has all but quit playing.  My last game of 40K was October of last year.  To me it was no longer fun.  I honestly don't even see why they have a different CODEX for each race now as the allies rule all but makes that a moot point.  The game has sadly become a case of "buy the flavor of the month" if you want to even stand a chance in a game.  Yes I know I could always decline a game but when you lug out all the models I used to carry that became a bit of a chore. 

My Orks and IG have been relegated to a dark spot in my attic and my hobby room is now occupied by 4 Flames of War and one Bolt Action army. 
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Offline SKEETERGOD

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Re: Thoughts on the game...
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2015, 08:51:45 AM »
I used to love to play 3k point games, both great fun and more time consuming. After this last rule book I have slowly been weaned to 1k games. I have found that by taking only a thousand points with me to the LGS and making my opponents trim their list down, that the game is a bit more fun.

Once you get get over 1.5k that is when the lists start to get really cheesey. At 2k there are too many flying things to deal with, too many big critters, and super elite 2/2/2 units.

I still play, but this summer my games have gone to only once a month. Before the new rule book came out I was playing two or three games a week, then the 7th ed came out and the game has decreased in both quality and quantity.

The biggest change is the hardest to get used to, both size of game to be fun, and the type of player who is my opponent. I don't see any new players, only old (not age just time playing) players still play the game, and of those only the WAAC players seem to be the last few standing.

Talking with my LGS staff, the game of 40k has gone from a crowd of over 100 regular players to about 20 regular players and a hand full of part time players (such as myself) and as such his sales have decreased.

I really hope GW sees what they have done to the game, and with the next edition rules they correct it. While the force org chart may have been a major limiting factor (only a measly three fast attack slots) it at least kept the game balanced.

My two teef
"It needs but one foe to breed a war. And even those who have not swords can still die upon them" (Lady Eowyn)
     We orks are not about being the hero; We orks are about being the mob.
                         
Quote from: angel of death 007
Skeetergod: (adj) A crazy fascination for all things combustible mixed with an unhealty lust for red paint. see also Speed Freak

Offline adamscurr

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Re: Thoughts on the game...
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2015, 10:09:18 PM »
I think the Force Org chart was great... I used to love to find ways of bringing the army I wanted to bring within the chart. It was a challenge and as mentioned, it didn't allow people to just spam stuff...

Adam


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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Thoughts on the game...
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2015, 10:16:36 PM »
It was a challenge and as mentioned, it didn't allow people to just spam stuff...
An interesting remark in a board for an army that people would regularly field 180 boyz...

My point is that people spammed just as much with the combined arms as they did with anything available today.  I'd even venture so far as to say there is less spam today because of how formations are structured.
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Offline dog_of_war

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Re: Thoughts on the game...
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2015, 08:58:19 AM »
@skeetergod completely agree with the lower point range games for orks. In the past a horde army used to mean you excelled at higher point levels because you could flood the board with units. Now with  flyers and Lord of Wars being the norm, higher point levels seem to attract spam of units that in reality should be a one or two per army, not an 'as many as points and bank account allow'.

@adamscurr I agree with the old CAD not being able to spam units and making the game more balanced in the past. Not being able to spam was actually a detriment to the orks being a horde army. Having multiple CADs this edition is actually a huge plus for us so that we can actually spam units like boyz, koptas, bikes, etc... to create a truer to nature ork army. This unfortunately unlocks the door to abuse on both sides of the table. Your opponent can now take as many wraithknights or vendettas as his wallet can handle. It all boils down to are you playing friendly games for fun or competitive games to win. My group just doesn't enjoy super heavy units or flyers and try to stick with your more pre-sixth edition models and we have a hoot every game.

@GML totally agree with formations attempting to create less spam. It was very obvious that GW created formations to encourage sales of slower moving models by including them in formations for awesome bonuses. Unfortunately GW did this very unbalanced across the codexes. The ork book had but a single formation and that was only a slight variation from a typical CAD designed for a green tide army. It didn't promote any unit not typically taken by an ork player and added no great bonus for the formation. You don't get a ton of upgrades, bonuses, or models for free as you would in a space marines or eldar list.

@everyone it all boils down with who you are playing your games with. If it's against complete strangers that you'll never see again and all they are concerned about is winning with the current flavour of the month, then playing orks against them means you must be a glutten for punishment. If by lucky chance you have a decent, non-competitive gaming group of like-minded individuals you should have just as much fun with this edition as you did with previous. And if you're extremely lucky, you might just find the ork vs. ork battle, which can only be described as pure bliss, even with the million dice rolls that inevitably must occur.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2015, 09:26:07 AM by dog_of_war »

 


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