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Author Topic: 1750 Siegebreaker List (Imperial Fists)  (Read 1328 times)

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Offline Wyddr

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1750 Siegebreaker List (Imperial Fists)
« on: July 21, 2015, 10:12:18 AM »
I finally got in a game with the new codex the other day (BatRep to follow later in the week) and I tried out some stuff. Basic overview is this:

1) I really like Assault Centurions. My sledgehammer unit got horribly, horribly mangled and yet the lone survivor still remained tactically relevant and damn near won me the game.

2) I do NOT like running Assault Centurions in Land Raiders. Especially not if I have to buy them a tanking IC, too--waaaay too many points in one basket.

3) The new Dreadnoughts are spiffy keen.

4) Always buy dozer blades. (I knew this, but I really regretted not shelling out that meager amount of points this time around)

Okay, so taking what I've learned, I'm thinking of a list along the following lines. The caveats are that my group doesn't use superheavies, it's flyer light (one flyer max, most of the time), and tends to be vehicle heavy.

Imperial Fists Combined Arms Detachment
Chapter Master w/Artificer, The Shield Eternal, Power Axe
(goes in pod with one group of Centurions)

Tactical Squad (10 strong) w/grav cannon, grav gun, Vet Sarge (meltabombs, combiflamer)
--in Rhino (Dozer Blade)
Tactical Squad (10 strong) w/grav cannon, grav gun, Vet Sarge (meltabombs, combiflamer)
--in Rhino (Dozer Blade)

Storm Talon w/Skyhammers
Drop Pod
Drop Pod

Thunderfire Cannon
Devastators (7) w/ 4x Lascannons

Siegebreaker Cohort
Ironclad Dreadnought w/Hvy Flamer
--in Drop Pod
3 Assault Centurions w/Hurricane Bolters
3 Assault Centurions w/Hurricane Bolters

Totals
1748 points
34 Infantry
7 Vehicles (including pods)

Basic Tactical Theory
Basically, the Devs and the TFC hold an objective in my deployment zone and throw fire downrange. I've tested this configuration a couple times now, and it works very well. The Tac Squads aim to hold mid-board objectives, setting up by turn two or so. The Ironclad and Assault Centurions (and Chapter Master) land where they can do the most damage and soak the most firepower. The disadvantages are, of course, that once they drop in their pods, the Assault Cents aren't going anywhere fast. However, since they can assault almost *anything* and stand a reasonable chance at success and have some nasty short-range firepower, I think that trade off is acceptable. Yeah, the enemy can run away, but then I get to keep my real estate and the rest of my army will still pound them.

I'm torn on the Grav Cannons at the moment. They are very good, but their range is a real sticking point. I'd *like* some points to buy my pods Deathwind Launchers (because those are awesome), and I could have them if I just downgraded the Grav Cannons to Plasma Cannons or Missile Launchers (even though missile launchers are awful these days...sigh).

Thoughts?

EDIT: Did the math a bit wrong in my head--I had about 50 points left over. Consider it spent on putting a meltagun in each Centurion Squad, Deathwinds on two Drop Pods, and a Locator Beacon on the third.


« Last Edit: July 21, 2015, 04:18:44 PM by Wyddr »

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: 1750 Siegebreaker List (Imperial Fists)
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2015, 10:39:55 PM »
Part of the upgrade cost for a Chapter Master goes towards his Orbital Bombardment, and by using Artificer Armour you are missing out on the opportunity to move and fire it, upon deployment. Enter the Terminator Armour upgrade, instead. Artificer + Power Fist = 45 points. Terminator Armour + Power Fist = 40 points... and relentlessly firing your orbital Bombardment. You've got space in the Pod, might as well use it. :) That would only be 5 more points than your current armour / weapon load out.

In a mobile Tactical unit, I'd prefer Plasma over Grav Guns. On the move, you've got equal volume of fire at 9", and greater firepower from 9 to 24" away. If you're disembarked early, you have greater range [equal to the cannon] to attack enemy units. Having worked with Scions from the Guard, I can say there's a... thing... about 9" range that just doesn't work well. Probably just because I'm used to 12" increments, but that 9" always seemed to be just not enough.

[Tee-hee. Inches.]

As to the Siegebreaker Cohort... do you have many "buildings" in your meta? We very seldom use buildings, almost always ruins. If you aren't using "buildings", then the first benefit is null as you only get re-rolls against buildings. The second benefit has a lulz effect against passengers, but only the passengers. No benefit to wrecking the vehicle. Unless you're frequently assaulting loaded transports, that's also a pants bonus.

The reason I bring it up, is that you could roll those selections into a CAD, and then instead of an Ironclad you could take a Regular Dreanought with a longer-ranged gun. You're only losing one attack... and the Dreads all have lots of attacks now. For significantly cheaper, you could be rocking a TL Autocannon, or Assault Cannon to provide fire support / melee deterrent to your Rhinos. Just have him walk along behind, gaining cover from the tanks.

Because with 50 or so points left over, and a handful of points saved, you could buy TWO Dreads, make them a mob, and have them march along with your Rhinos. Have them do the switcheroo if one takes a couple HP, so you can maintain two functioning models.

To keep 3 Pods, you could buy one for your Devs, and drop it, empty, onto an objective. If you figure the pod is roughly 4 inches across, if you start a drop on top of an objective, you have a 52% chance to drop within 3". I've won games that way. :D

I always want to buy Deathwinds, and never do. They're a fun luxury, but still a luxury. Whatever you're dropping your Assault Cents onto probably isn't going to be afraid of a handful of Heavy Bolter hits, you know? Especially if you're rocking some flamer goodness on those models. The extra range on the SB's has occasionally proved useful for sniping the last model from a unit... I always want to take DWL, but always run out of points.

And yes, ALWAYS buy Dozer Blades! Cheaper than they used to be, and a cover save is more valuable than it used to be.



220 - Chapter Master w/ Terminator Armour, The Shield Eternal, Power Fist [+5 pts]

250 -Tactical Squad (10 strong) w/grav cannon, Plasmagun, Vet Sarge (meltabombs, combiflamer) [-10 pts]
       -in Rhino (Dozer Blade)

250 -Tactical Squad (10 strong) w/grav cannon, Plasmagun, Vet Sarge (meltabombs, combiflamer) [-10 pts]
       -in Rhino (Dozer Blade)

115 - Storm Talon w/Skyhammers

  35 - Drop Pod w/ SB

  35 - Drop Pod w/ SB

135 - Thunderfire Cannon
      - Empty Drop Pod [+35 pts]

197 - Devastators (7) w/ 4x Lascannons, Armorium Cherub [Seriously, for the price of a Meltabomb!] [+5 pts]

Siegebreaker Cohort

210 - Dreadnought [2]: w 2x TL AC, 2x SB [+20 pts, including former pod]

175 - 3 Assault Centurions w/Hurricane Bolters, Veteran Sarge [+10 pts]

175 - 3 Assault Centurions w/Hurricane Bolters, Veteran Sarge [+10 pts]

[1797 - Total]

Well, crap, now 47 points over. My personal suggestion would be to change one tactical squad over to a Pod. That would save 40 points right there, and keep the 3 pod ideal. From there, trim 7 points as desired.

If part of the strategy is to have the twin Rhinos, I'd ask how attached you are to 3 pods, because then you could drop a Pod, and then either the Vets from the Cents, or maybe one Dev... there would be options.

Maybe drop the Vet Cents, one Dev, and drop a Grav Cannon for something else in a tactical squad?

This style list is something I'm looking to try in my next game, Dreads marching with Razorbacks. :)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 11:06:54 PM by Spectral Arbor »

Offline Wyddr

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Re: 1750 Siegebreaker List (Imperial Fists)
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2015, 09:36:23 AM »
Thanks for the tips!

Of note: Slow and Purposeful is *transferrable*, so the Orbital Bombardment will work just fine out of the pod, so long as the Master sticks with the Cents. Besides, a guy in Termie armor won't fit in the pod, so that option is just plain out. 

On Tacticals: I've always been underwhelmed by the lone plasma gun and always been leery of a gun that can kill my own guy. The grav gun is shorter ranged, yeah, but it has better output if I hold still, and now that I can move *some* of the unit and not force the whole unit to count as moving (thanks 7th Ed!), that will come up more often. I'm willing to give plasma another try (I've got the models), but I'm rather skeptical. I've been experimenting with them for a long time and, really, unless your squad is packing 2-3 of the things, they just don't seem to pay off. 

As for Siegebreaker: Yes, actually, I *do* find myself assaulting loaded transports. All the time, really. So often, in fact, that it is at least 50% of all my assaulting. The chances to seriously harm those units inside is a significant draw (furthermore, just to get all mind-gamey, any incentive to force an early disembark from a transport is something my Thunderfire Cannon very much encourages!). As for the building thing, Imperial Fists Tactics gives me that ability for free to everybody, so it's not a big deal--it *is* fluffy, though, to take this formation with them.  I do like regular dreads, just not walking ones. I'd *either* take a gun-dread to add to the Firebase, or I'm dropping it in the pod.

I used to do the "dreads march behind tanks" thing for a while and, while it had its uses (assault deterrent, etc.), the firepower they kicked out for their cost was usually sub-par and they took *forever* to actually get anywhere useful. I did have some late-game action where my Dreadnought finally got to assault something, but I decided that his contribution to the army was too small to warrant his cost, so I gave him a longer range gun (like the plasma cannon) and had him sit back with whatever firebase I had set up and used him as an assault deterrent there, which worked pretty well.

These days, with their potent assault capabilities, I think I want dreads working up close. Ironclads are the best suited for that duty and, also, fit with the theme here. Plus, with the formation rules, any Wave Serpents I charge will obliterate the pesky guardians or Dire Avengers inside, which is a major draw.

On Deathwinds: The idea behind the Deathwinds has a lot less to do with what's *in* the pod than it does to do with how the pod is treated once the unit it drops dies/runs off/does whatever. A pod with a stormbolter has almost zero offense and is easy to ignore. The enemy can kill it whenever it feels like, but in the meantime probably has no qualms about parking a unit right next to it for the whole game. A Deathwind, however, makes a drop pod into either a target that must be dealt with (wasting enemy shooting on a throwaway unit) or an area-denial unit (don't leave troops right next to that pod!). For the cost of a plasma gun, I think it's really worth it.

Hmmm...Armorium Cherub is only 5, eh? I must have missed that. I should be able to squeeze that in somewhere, I think. Drop a meltagun off some Cents, for instance.

If part of the strategy is to have the twin Rhinos, I'd ask how attached you are to 3 pods, because then you could drop a Pod, and then either the Vets from the Cents, or maybe one Dev... there would be options.

Three pods is mostly needed to get two drops on turn one, which I see as crucial to the battle plan.

Finally: Dozer Blades are the same cost they've always been, man. Like, since forever. Well, since 5th Edition, anyway.  ;)

Thanks again for the feedback!
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 09:39:29 AM by Wyddr »

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: 1750 Siegebreaker List (Imperial Fists)
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2015, 06:32:34 PM »
I swear that the last time I checked, Dozer Blades were 10 points. I haven't used them before 7th, so maybe that was part of it.

If you're smashing tanks with dudes inside, then yeah, it completely makes sense to go with the Linebreaker. I never am.

I figured that 3 pods were key, but I wasn't sure. Some people like having a reserved "important" unit. Not me, but that's just because I like to get stuck in quickly.

I found that the few times I tried DWL, they were a deterrent, but they never actually did anything. I've had more kills with the storm bolters than I did with the DWL. So many things have Krak / Meltabombs in my meta that getting close to a Pod is just an assault away from wrecking it. :)

 


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