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Author Topic: Let's Rate the Russ!  (Read 2007 times)

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Offline Wyddr

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Let's Rate the Russ!
« on: March 24, 2015, 09:14:13 AM »
Okay, so I'm in the process of planning out a Leman Russ-heavy army list. I want to shake up the different variants I use, too, so I've been trying to figure out which ones are best for what. Here are my general findings and I'd be curious to hear what you guys have to say.

1) Executioner: Because tons of plasma death is still pretty handy, even if you do lose a couple hull points a game.

2) Exterminator: High rate of medium-high strength twin-linked firepower is pretty clutch. Very reliable tank and cheap, too.

3) Standard Russ: Nice main gun for certain metas, doesn't need upgrades or sponsons to do its job. Middle of the road, really.

4) Demolisher: Great but for the range, which sucks. Might be handy as a Tank Commander (to zoom into position first turn and then unload second turn), but the medium range of it's main gun really hurts it, in my opinion.

5) Vanquisher: While the main gun looks okay in paper, the changes to vehicle damage tables in 7th Edition make it a pretty indifferent tank-killer. Give it a Tank Commander and Lascannon/Multimeltas, I can see its worth, but other wise it's pretty bad at it's main job.

6) Eradicator: Very useful for a very specific metagame. If you face a ton of hordes (orks, nids, enemy AM) or that one guy who footslogs a bunch of Eldar or Necron Warriors, this thing is gold. Otherwise, it doesn't have much use.

7) Punisher: I wish this tank were good, I really do. The short range, the lack of mobility, the terrible AP, and the mediocre BS make it virtually unusable for the cost, though. Even if you weigh it down with triple heavy bolters (the only way to fly, in my opinion), you're still only knocking down 3 marines per turn. That said, if you *are* in that metagame with the ton of light infantry, it might work out for you. I'd say the Eradicator would be better by half, though.

Your thoughts?

Offline Ludo

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Re: Let's Rate the Russ!
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2015, 12:56:45 PM »
In all my games against the guard I've never seen anyone field an executioner.  I think I would firmly rank it last on the list as you're overpaying for the weapons it brings to bear.

I agree that the executioner is the king of the Leman Russ tanks.

I'm very surprised that you have the punisher and eradicator so low.  A squadron of punishers advancing up the middle of the board is outstanding for board control and a good way to shoot up some flying monstrous creatures.  The eradicator is still throwing out a high strength ignores cover shot. Anything that doesn't have a space marine armor save is going to die against it.

The demolisher and battle cannon tanks are very weak with their ordnance rules.
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Executioner
Punisher
eradicator
standard russ
vanquisher
demolisher
executioner
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Let's Rate the Russ!
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2015, 01:06:46 PM »
In my experience, the Punisher fails to kill as much as a standard battlecannon shot in most cases. Even an Eradicator has a much higher kill rate. I suppose it might work a bit better against T6 or lower MCs, but that's a very tight niche.

My problem with the Eradicator is that its main gun isn't strong enough to do anything other than shoot at infantry, really. If you aren't playing against 4+ save or worse infantry that rely on cover saves (so, not against Guard, Nids, or Orks, pretty much), it doesn't really pay off much.

As for the Exterminator, I think it's a very solid tank. It performs better against light-medium armor than almost any of the others, it can have reasonable anti-infantry firepower, and its pretty cheap AV14. There isn't much not to like, to my thought.

Offline Calamity

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Re: Let's Rate the Russ!
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2015, 02:39:17 PM »
Good idea!  Let's rate the Russes!  ;D

I rate the Exterminator as the best one over all.  It has a decent (and reliable) main gun that shreds light and medium infantry plus light vehicles.  And if you want some MEQ killing power, you can stick some plasma cannons on it.  Against marines, you can pop rhinos with the main gun (and maybe the plasma sponsons if need be), and then you can blast the squads with plasma, whilst the main gun chips in a kill too.

Meanwhile, the standard Russ is to me the worst one overall.  The main gun (which hinders all of it's other weapons when fired) is good if it hits dead on, but how often do blast weapons ever land where you want them to?  Add in the fact that cover can offer protection from it, and it's not powerful enough to take out 2+ armor or heavy vehicles, and the result is pretty poor overall.  That's why I think it needs a points reduction.

A Vanquisher is an OK anti-tank weapon, but it's problem is that anti-tank is all it can do.  It's too specialized to be of widespread use to the army overall.

The Demolisher suffers from the same problems as the standard Russ, and although it has a short range, it at least makes up for it in it's 2+ infantry and heavy tank killing power. 

I'm going to come in and defend the Eradicator by saying that it's one of the best infantry killers in the game.  If I knew that I'm fighting nid, ork, necron, dark eldar or guard up front, I'd definitely consider some (since unlike hellhounds, they aren't competing with our air support for FOC positions).  In decent numbers and outfitted with heavy bolters they'll do great.

For me the Executioner is a little expensive, but when you're fighting Grey Knights you'll be glad you took them.

Finally, Punishers are now nice and cheap and can be used as powerful crowd control.  I prefer to rely on dice roll hits over blast weapons most times too.  You can sort of predict dice rolls...but blast weapons are too random for me.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 02:52:49 PM by Tangi »

Offline Ludo

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Re: Let's Rate the Russ!
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2015, 06:02:47 PM »
With the executioner I feel like i am paying a ton of points for a few middle strength shots. I can pop a rhino with a punisher.

If we take take commanders, especially Pask, I feel we change the whole order. Preffered enemy on that many shots is huge. I also feel like it gains the most from psychic support. Prescience  Will add 5 extra hits per punisher.
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Offline GaleRazorwind

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Re: Let's Rate the Russ!
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2015, 06:32:20 PM »
How about sticking a CCS with the Aquila relic (for PE bubble) next to the tanks? The benefits of Preferred Enemy increase when you have more shots, but even if you run blasts, being able to redo those pesky 1's to wound would make a difference.

I see the Pask in a Punisher as being the best bang for your buck for the Punisher tank. Then you can take two other tanks with him with other weapons and use your tank orders to split fire.
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Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Let's Rate the Russ!
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2015, 06:40:38 PM »
By "Russ Heavy" are we talking single FOC out of the codex, multiple FOC out of the codex, or are we talking the, er, Armoured Company [?] rules from Forgeworld?

If going out of the Codex, are you planning to take a Tank Commander for your HQ, or will you be rocking a CCS? Kurov's Aquilla beside a Plasma-Cutioner is good times, I tell you. As are most Russ variants. You effectively go up to BS 3.5 [non-blasts], and since many weapons wound on a 2+, the re-rolling of 1's to wound is golden. Not losing Plasma shots to overheat rolls is also a huge benefit, even better than the boost to BS. :)

How many points are you looking at?

As a general rule, I find Russes are too slow to be able to pick their targets... you get whatever your opponent leaves in front of you. So I like Russes that can handle a wide variety of targets.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 06:43:46 PM by Spectral Arbor »

Offline Ludo

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Re: Let's Rate the Russ!
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2015, 08:27:21 PM »
I run pask with a vanquiser, lascannon, and melta sponsons with an eradicator with bolters. I can leave him on the back line so his rear armor isn't exposed and touch anyone on the battlefield. The eradicator is pretty decent infantry protection, is cheap, and I have him sit forward to absorb any attacks. If something nasty gets close the multi meltas have some added punch.
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Offline Talon Undecided

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Re: Let's Rate the Russ!
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2015, 08:18:52 PM »
'ang on, you guys don't see the Pasknisher + Executioners in your area? Pask in a Punisher accompanied by two other Executioners in his squadron. The Preferred Enemy conferred by his Warlord traits means you can re-roll the Gets Hot rolls of the plasma weapons, and Pask giving Rending to his Punisher cannon improves the killing ability of the tank overall.

I say the problem with the Punisher / Exterminator is their BS, though. I have no qualms putting Tank Commanders in 'em, Armoured Battlegroup or no.

But for the standard guys, I say stick to Leman Russes MBTs. Versatile enough to take on any target - just watch the MCs.
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