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Author Topic: Codex: Exodites for 7th Edition 40K  (Read 4878 times)

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Offline Ambience 327

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Codex: Exodites for 7th Edition 40K
« on: March 23, 2015, 02:46:50 PM »
I have finally finished updating my Exodites Codex for 7th Edition 40K. A lot of feedback from many helpful people has been considered and often incorporated into this new version. I would especially like to thank Wyldhunt for all the playtesting and suggestions, they were most helpful!

I must confess, I sort of went a bit overboard on the Lord of War choices, seeing as there are four including Gargantuan versions of the Megadon, Carnosaur and Pterasaur. (I also moved the Carnosaur-riding special character to a Lord of War). I figure if any army should have access to Gargantuan Creatures, it's Tyranids... But the next most likely is the Exodites riding truly colossal dinosaurs. :)

As always, I am eager to hear your feedback, especially if you find things that don't make sense or that you believe are errors. I try my best to at least address concernts and explain my thinking, though I often make changes based on suggestions as well, so fire away! (But keep it contructive!)

You can download the PDF from Box.com via the link below:

Exodites 7th 40KO v1.0.pdf - File Shared from Box

Offline Wyldhunt

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Re: Codex: Exodites for 7th Edition 40K
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2015, 05:50:55 PM »
Can't believe it took me this long to look over the new rules.  Sorry, man!  Here are some initial impressions:

I like the pterasaur mounts.  I do, however, think that 10 points might be a bit much to pay for herdwardens.  In a 5 man squad, that's an extra 50 points just to be able to get a 4+ jink save which then limits their utility if you wanted to shoot with them. 

I love the giant dinosaurs.  Now where's my giant great drake?  I have an old Beast Wars Megatron action figure that would be perfect!

Cadence of Khaine kills about 6 marines on average if I'm not mistaken. That's probably a bit strong for a WC1 power.  Nocturne of shadow is still worded for 6th edition nightfighting.  I sugest making it grant a single unit shrouded  so that it meshes with sources of stealth in the codex. I like the rework of the psychic powers and harmonies in general, but we'll have to see if it proves too complicated on the tabletop.

I like the changes to the sundered knights, but I noticed a couple things.  For starters, a 1-man unit of sundered knights is priced at 60 points, but they're only 20 points apiece. Is this a typo or a way of encouraging people to take larger squads of them?  I like Pain of Loss, but you're aware it's only going to help against things that are exactly Toughness 3, right?  Anything Toughness 2 or less won't be affected by it (they're already allowing rerolls to wound from your poisoned blades), and toughness 4+ won't allow you rerolls because they're still at least as tough as you are strong.  Not a bad setup. Just wanted to make sure it was intentional. :)

Also, with some clever positioning, you can potentially make toughness 3 multi-wound models insta-killable by a dragon lance on the charge or a hammer of wrath. 

I really like the gate wardens.  It will be nice to be able to put together a portion of my army that isn't a beast or cavalry (even though I like both of those).  I'm a bit confused by cunning traps though. They always hit vehicles on the front, but aren't they too weak to actually hurt vehicles? 

Meinly Kurim-We seems like a bit of an auto-take at 50 points.  She grants +2 attacks to every model in the unit on the turn it charges as it's currently phrased.  That's +2 storm lance attacks and +2 laser lance attacks and another +2 attacks for everyone in the unit.  Plus, she's a flamer.  Considering the base cost of a knight is 15 points and you no longer have to buy the chieftain a hunting drake for 10 points, you're effectively only paying about 25 points for her various special bits.  I like her rules, but she's kind of a steal for potentially 22 extra attacks. Plus another hammer of wrath.

I like the force org change for the psykers.

The formations and fortifications look quite useful, though I wonder if the world spirit nodes are too pricey. They're very useful, but if I'm not mistaken, they have to be deployed within your own deployment zone. Considering exodites usually want to be advancing, this makes them mostly useful against drop pods or enemies that are even more aggressive than exodites.

Glad to see the crystal fife included! I'll be using it every game!

Edit: Just saw that Gatekeepers are both a default part of the gate warden unit and an optional upgrade.  The base unit appears to be priced for just the 4 wardens.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 11:47:52 PM by Wyldhunt »

Offline Ciliano

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Re: Codex: Exodites for 7th Edition 40K
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2015, 06:52:07 PM »
Hello and thank you for this impressive piece of work. You surely did a great job to shape a unique feeling for the Exodites. Me and a friend of mine will test it out in a Exodite vs. Chaos battle in the following weeks. While I like the general appearance and possibilities to form an army list, I find two aspects to be a bit "smooth":

1.) Cost of wargear: Many of the very useful items are very much affordable and give almost decisive buffs for the squads or add a whole new nastyness to some characters like the nice arrows, where you don't exchange your standard ammunition but can now opt every round at your gusto...for just a few points and with Split Fire.

2.) Special Rules: I get that the junglecentricity brings some extras in the game which is not (yet) implemented by the current Rulebook. If I take a Herdmaster (a extremely cheap one with just 40 points so very likely to get fielded), he has his armour, cc-weapon and bow - that's good. IC - yep, sure. Jungle Born, Kindred Spirit - okay, army special rules. Dragonhide - well, seems many of the good units have it. Scouts, Hit&Run AND Split Fire - uhm, okay I take it, just have to memorize them all. This are the stock rules for a 40pt IC, which can be followed by Beastsinger upgrade (again, for just 5 points!), not to mention the armory (see above). I (we) feel that it's a bit over the top and are concerned about the balance f.e. between bikes and Dragon Knights (who are superior cavalry even though with a small Inv as Troops for relatively cheap points).

Please don't take this offensive, it's my try to remember what we were about a couple of evenings before and although we are not sold (yet) on the balancing aspect, this Codex of yours certainly is a very good piece of work with a bunch of nice ideas ("terraforming") neatly integrated. That being said, our opinion could very well be taken back after one or two testing games, so take these points of critique with a good pinch of salt.

Offline Ambience 327

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Re: Codex: Exodites for 7th Edition 40K
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2015, 12:24:03 PM »
Can't believe it took me this long to look over the new rules.  Sorry, man!  Here are some initial impressions:

No worries. Quality feedback like yours is worth the wait. :)

I like the pterasaur mounts.  I do, however, think that 10 points might be a bit much to pay for herdwardens.  In a 5 man squad, that's an extra 50 points just to be able to get a 4+ jink save which then limits their utility if you wanted to shoot with them. 

They also gain the ability to move over other models using their Jump, but I see your point. As usual, I like to err on the side of overcosting and then tone it down. I will probably reduce their cost just a bit, at least for the Herdkeeper Kindred.

I love the giant dinosaurs.  Now where's my giant great drake?  I have an old Beast Wars Megatron action figure that would be perfect!

I knew you would approve. I decided against a Gargantuan Great Drake as the Monstrous version is already pretty good, and two flying Gargantuan creatures seemed excessive. (I went with the Pterasaur because of their inclusion in Path of the Renegade - I always like to make nods to the BL novels and other background material when I can.)

Cadence of Khaine kills about 6 marines on average if I'm not mistaken. That's probably a bit strong for a WC1 power.  Nocturne of shadow is still worded for 6th edition nightfighting.  I sugest making it grant a single unit shrouded  so that it meshes with sources of stealth in the codex. I like the rework of the psychic powers and harmonies in general, but we'll have to see if it proves too complicated on the tabletop.

Without Refrain I'm getting 4.44 dead Marines on Average.
(6 shots at 3+ To Hit, 3+ To Wound gets 2.67 Unsaved Wounds, with the Rising Tempo growing that to 4.44 wounds)

With Refrain (which makes it at least WC2) I'm getting 6.67 dead Marines on average.
(9 shots at 3+ To Hit, 3+ To Wound gets 4 Unsaved Wounds, with the Rising Tempo growing that to 6.67 wounds)

Perhaps a bit too effective, but not devastatingly so. I don't want to raise the WC cost, so maybe I will lower it to Assault 4 base and Assault 8 with Refrain. (That brings us to an average of 2.96/5.92 dead Marines).

I like the changes to the sundered knights, but I noticed a couple things.  For starters, a 1-man unit of sundered knights is priced at 60 points, but they're only 20 points apiece. Is this a typo or a way of encouraging people to take larger squads of them?  I like Pain of Loss, but you're aware it's only going to help against things that are exactly Toughness 3, right?  Anything Toughness 2 or less won't be affected by it (they're already allowing rerolls to wound from your poisoned blades), and toughness 4+ won't allow you rerolls because they're still at least as tough as you are strong.  Not a bad setup. Just wanted to make sure it was intentional. :)

Also, with some clever positioning, you can potentially make toughness 3 multi-wound models insta-killable by a dragon lance on the charge or a hammer of wrath. 

The initial price point is definitely incorrect. I dropped it from a requirement of 3 Sundered Knights to only needing 1 to make a unit, but forgot to change the initial Unit Cost. I will fix this. :)

The main point of Pain of Loss is not to help the Sundered Knights themselves, but (as you pointed out in that last bit) to create synergy with other units (adding to the combined charge tactics available) by lowering the enemy's Toughness and making it easier for other units to do damage. I figured this would give them another role - i.e. supporting other units attacking tough enemies like Monstrous Creatures or mid/high-Toughness multi-wound models (like Ork Nobz or Ogryn).

I really like the gate wardens.  It will be nice to be able to put together a portion of my army that isn't a beast or cavalry (even though I like both of those).  I'm a bit confused by cunning traps though. They always hit vehicles on the front, but aren't they too weak to actually hurt vehicles? 

Hmmm. Not sure what I was thinking here. You are correct about them being unable to harm any existing vehicles. I will have to rework that bit.

Meinly Kurim-We seems like a bit of an auto-take at 50 points.  She grants +2 attacks to every model in the unit on the turn it charges as it's currently phrased.  That's +2 storm lance attacks and +2 laser lance attacks and another +2 attacks for everyone in the unit.  Plus, she's a flamer.  Considering the base cost of a knight is 15 points and you no longer have to buy the chieftain a hunting drake for 10 points, you're effectively only paying about 25 points for her various special bits.  I like her rules, but she's kind of a steal for potentially 22 extra attacks. Plus another hammer of wrath.

Not seeing where you get +2 Attacks? I think you may be misreading the bit about Rage - she gives that to nearby Units of Drakes, not her own unit. (Having Hunting Drakes doesn't make you a "Unit of Drakes".)

I like the force org change for the psykers.

And don't miss the Royal Kindred, which lets you load up on HQ choices in a single Formation. :D

The formations and fortifications look quite useful, though I wonder if the world spirit nodes are too pricey. They're very useful, but if I'm not mistaken, they have to be deployed within your own deployment zone. Considering exodites usually want to be advancing, this makes them mostly useful against drop pods or enemies that are even more aggressive than exodites.

I might lower the cost of World Spirit nodes a bit, but not too much as they Leadership and Psychic benefits are pretty useful in the right circumstances. (The Leadership stuff especially so if combined with some of the Dark Eldar and Harlequin rules.)

Glad to see the crystal fife included! I'll be using it every game!

You're welcome.

Edit: Just saw that Gatekeepers are both a default part of the gate warden unit and an optional upgrade.  The base unit appears to be priced for just the 4 wardens.

Oops. Should be 5 Gate Wardens and 75 points. I always seem to miss something when I'm getting this all down. Keep up the good work catching it! It will be fixed for the next update.


Hello and thank you for this impressive piece of work. You surely did a great job to shape a unique feeling for the Exodites. Me and a friend of mine will test it out in a Exodite vs. Chaos battle in the following weeks. While I like the general appearance and possibilities to form an army list, I find two aspects to be a bit "smooth":

Thank you. I hope you have fun using my rules, and I hope you'll let me know how it goes!

1.) Cost of wargear: Many of the very useful items are very much affordable and give almost decisive buffs for the squads or add a whole new nastyness to some characters like the nice arrows, where you don't exchange your standard ammunition but can now opt every round at your gusto...for just a few points and with Split Fire.

Swarm Arrows and Drake Arrows are pretty nice, and sort of fill the Special Weapons niche for the Herdkeeper Kindreds. Since only the Herdwarden and Herdmaster can take them, they are difficult to spam. Right now they feel about right pointswise, but if your playtesting proves otherwise, let me know.

2.) Special Rules: I get that the junglecentricity brings some extras in the game which is not (yet) implemented by the current Rulebook. If I take a Herdmaster (a extremely cheap one with just 40 points so very likely to get fielded), he has his armour, cc-weapon and bow - that's good. IC - yep, sure. Jungle Born, Kindred Spirit - okay, army special rules. Dragonhide - well, seems many of the good units have it. Scouts, Hit&Run AND Split Fire - uhm, okay I take it, just have to memorize them all. This are the stock rules for a 40pt IC, which can be followed by Beastsinger upgrade (again, for just 5 points!), not to mention the armory (see above). I (we) feel that it's a bit over the top and are concerned about the balance f.e. between bikes and Dragon Knights (who are superior cavalry even though with a small Inv as Troops for relatively cheap points).

Your concerns are noted. I do realize this Codex has a LOT of special rules, but that doesn't bother me too much as it is really meant to be more of a fluffy book for use in friendly games where that kind of stuff matters less. (As opposed to my Arbites and Genestealer rules, where I really try to go for more simplicity and balance.) Playtesting thus far shows this army to be powerful if used right, but requiring a bit of skill to use well and not overly powerful. Again, if you have a different experience please let me know.

Please don't take this offensive, it's my try to remember what we were about a couple of evenings before and although we are not sold (yet) on the balancing aspect, this Codex of yours certainly is a very good piece of work with a bunch of nice ideas ("terraforming") neatly integrated. That being said, our opinion could very well be taken back after one or two testing games, so take these points of critique with a good pinch of salt.

No offense taken whatsoever! I love getting good feedback on my rules, as that is the only way they can get better. Testing is really the only way to know for sure, as some things that look really nasty on paper can turn out not so bad in the context of actual games.

Just look at things like the Adepta Sororitas. As I saw pointed out recently in a discussion on the rumored new Eldar Craftworlds Codex, Dominion Squads are quite inexpensive for 3+ save BS4 models who can take four Meltaguns that can, once per game, gain the Ignores Cover rule. They also have Exorcist tanks which can pump out up to 6 Krak Missile in a single Turn, which can easily wreck just about any vehicle. This all sounds really nasty on paper, but I've never heard anyone calling the Adeptus Sororitas Codex overpowered.  :)

Offline Wyldhunt

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Re: Codex: Exodites for 7th Edition 40K
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2015, 06:50:04 PM »
Quite right about Cadence of Khaine.  My math was off. 

If Pain of Loss's main point was to help set up enemies for more effective combined charges, I might suggest making it effect the entire unit rather than just those in base to base.  Otherwise, you have to A.) take enough sundered knights to get in BTB with the majority of a target unit in order to lower the majority Toughness, and B.)  calculate exactly how many models are in BTB with the sundered knights compared to the whole of the unit at each initiative step to see if the majority toughness has changed from casualties.  It would still be useful as is. Just more complicated to resolve.

I was, in fact, misreading Menly Kurim-We's rule.  That's much more reasonable, though still quite good at 50 points. I'll try to use her in a few games to see how she does. 

References to the Path of... series are always welcome. Still want an excuse to use my Megatron though! :)  Maybe a special gargantuan creature character?  No mechanical basis here. I simply want to use Megatron in a game of 40k. 

Not to skew Ciliano's feedback, but I've personally not had any problems with the things he's mentioned.  The special wargear is great, but also quite necessary for dealing with vehicles.  Remember that Hammer of Wrath attacks won't generally help you against a vehicle unless you're getting a rear angled charge, so things like drake arrows and special lances are important. 

The heavy cavalry may look intimidating, but remember that it's very comparable to an assault marine. Move 12", hammer of wrath at strength 4, pack a couple special weapons, marine armor save.  Thing is that you're even more dependent on the charge than those assault marines because you lose most of your oomph after the charge.  And even with the charge, you aren't devastating most things (unless you're an all laser or drake lance squad.)  In my games, I usually bleed dragon knights left and right, but manage to overcome the enemy by protecting my special knight squads and lining up charges.

The herdmaster is a cheap option that lets you throw an extra special arrow somewhere.  He's comparable to an assault marine with a meltagun, and he melts against most things in a challenge.  I like having a cheap option in the hq slot. I favor pricey dragon kings and princes, and I'll probably start mixing in psykers, but not being forced to take a combat beast or psyker is nice. :)

Offline Ambience 327

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Re: Codex: Exodites for 7th Edition 40K
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2015, 09:02:13 PM »
When I wrote the rules for the Sundered Knights, I hadn't seen the new Skitarii yet, and was thinking that reducing Toughness for entire units was pretty rough, but if the Skitarii can do it on spammable basic Troops, I think Sundered Knights can do it too. :)

 


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