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Author Topic: Next Dark Eldar Codex: What do you hope to see?  (Read 2594 times)

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Offline Wyldhunt

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Next Dark Eldar Codex: What do you hope to see?
« on: September 10, 2014, 02:53:19 PM »
So we should theoretically begetting a new codex in the next few months. I'm pretty happy with our book as-is, but what are some things you're hoping to see changed, added, or even removed when it arrives?  Personally, a few shiny things I'd like to see include:

* Wyches getting their dodge save against overwatch.
* Combat Drugs replacing some of the redundant and outdated effects with something more interesting. Maybe swap out the "roll an extra d6when running" one for the ability to run and charge on the same turn like back in the day?
* Mandrakes getting a reboot.  I love the fluff. I love the models.  I just need some nightfiend wargear options and maybe a tweak to baleblast to make them work, especially now that they can't assault from outflanking. >.<
* Webway portal fix. These were tricky to use when the codex first came out. Now they're just really weird to use. Let units assault out of them,let units deploying through them choose not to come in from reserves until they're ready. Maybe even let Sybarites, Harlequin Troupe Leaders,  Hekatrices, etc. take them as wargear options.
* Let our HQs fly again.  The old armory was a lot of fun to play around with, and the newer book formats seem to support it.  It would be cool to let our HQs ride bikes again,let them grow scourge wings, fly on Hellion boards, etc.
*Faction-related "chapter tactics."  I really like the chapter tactics setup that marines have, and I think it would be a fun thing to include in other armies. Let "Coven Tactics" give you the ability to modify the profiles of coven units (wracks, grots, cronos, and talos) before the fight. Let the Black Heart unleash some sort of nasty orbital-bombardment-style super weapon once per game.  Let the Poisoned Tongue gain extra warlord traits so long as they're on the strategy table. Let wych cults gain the benefits of a"Preferred fighting style" or the ability to gain pain tokens more easily or something.
*Address the changes to Power from Pain that happened in the switch to 6th edition. PFP is still nice, but we basically went from being a 4+army to a 5+ one.
*Let harlies take venoms (it was their car in the first place, and their lack of transport seems to be one of the main reasons people don't use them.)
*Tweak harlequins in general. I love these guys, but they're hard to deliver, their troupe master's wargear options are a bit bland, and the shadowseer is awfully pricey now that Veil of Tears is kind of unreliable.  (Especially considering he's likely the only psyker your opponent needs to throw dice at when denying powers.)
*Bring back the punisher helm! It was a fun, straight-forward wargear option, and I kind of miss it (even though it's kind of sort of secretly rolled into the incubus profile already.)
*Change or remove the restrictions on Drazhar.  He's basically a Phoenix Lord (if he isn't actually Arhra himself), and the Phoenix Lords are free to join whomever now.  Drazhar becomes much more useful when you can stick him in with a wych or wrack squad rather than simply making an incubi squad ridiculously pricey and killy.
*Give us an incubi shrine formation. I really like the idea of having an army of incubi out on a mission for the shrine, but it's kind of hard to pull off at the moment.
*Making the Reaper official would be nice. That haywire gunboat is snazzy!
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 03:08:26 PM by Wyldhunt »

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Next Dark Eldar Codex: What do you hope to see?
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2014, 03:43:38 PM »
+1 to pretty much everything said above.


Drugs could definitely use a re-haul.

Better Fear weapons.
Better ways to counter psychers
Specific AA guns for ground troops
Special Character for Mandrakes


Hallucinogenic Grenade Launcher
Rng 12       Str 1        Ap -       Type Assault 2, Drugged, Dazed, and Confused*

Drugged, Dazed, and Confused: A unit hit must make a leadership test with -1 modifier per hit. If they pass, all is good. If they fail they may not fire overwatch, use counter attack, or defense grenades. Once they enemy hits their lines though, the stupor lifts and they fight as per normal.

Id like to see Vect actually usable. Armor 12 all around. Holo shields.
Make his ship unique - not just a raider variant.
3 tl Death Lances
Lance:  Rng 48      Str 9      Ap 2    Type   Heavy 1, AA*, Lance, Combined Fire**
Blast:   Rng 36      Str 7      Ap 3    Type   Heavy 1 Large Blast, Combined Fire
Rapid:  Rng 24      Str 5      Ap 4    Type   Heavy 6, Combined Fire

AA: The Lance profile may choose to fire with the skyfire rules this turn if it wishes
Combined Fire: All three guns may choose to combine fire. If they do so may re-roll failed wounds/penetrations. If all three guns still intact, increase strength by one decrease ap by one. If only two guns intact, may choose to increase strength or decrease Ap. If only one gun intact, may not use Combined Fire.

Never going to happen but I'd love to get back the rolling assaults - wipe out a unit - consolidate into another - wipe it out... keep going. With overwatch now it has a counter.... kinda lol

Something to force more perils tests.

I want to see our CC be truly feared again


So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline Dread

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Re: Next Dark Eldar Codex: What do you hope to see?
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2014, 04:07:19 AM »
I +1 to both of you. I remember when the new dex came out, oh boy what a rush. It was very competitive and was fun to field. Then (insert sinister music here), the dreaded 6th ed came out and BOOOM! Not so much. Now I have this big beautiful army I just won't field anymore. So....

Make the torment grenade launchers nullify overwatch within 12"
Give the wyches their true role back, infantry fighters not tank hunters
Make jink not mess with BS on raiders, venoms and ravagers, they are really agile skimmers after all
Make Razorwings fast attack (this one, maybe)
Give some missiles no blast template so they can be used against other flyers

That's the adds I can think of right now besides what y'all stated.
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Offline Plastikente

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Re: Next Dark Eldar Codex: What do you hope to see?
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2014, 11:34:56 AM »
For me, the big one is to fix the Webway Portal.  It is great wargear, very fluffy and totally useless since 6th Edition.
No. 2, fix Mandrakes.  As Wyldhunt said: great models, great fluff, rubbish rules.

I've also got something I don't want: no £70 giant walker/super-heavy.  It just doesn't fit with the fluff and the way DE fight.  Sadly, I am (almost) certain that this is exactly what we'll get with the new Codex, because it is what GW likes to do with every new release at the moment.

Oh, and a model for the Voidraven bomber would be nice.  Normal practice would be to re-release the Razorwing as a set that could make either.  Oh yeah, and non-Finecast Grotesques, Beastmasters and beasts, so that they are not über-expensive and have more than one pose.

Offline Wyldhunt

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Re: Next Dark Eldar Codex: What do you hope to see?
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2014, 04:40:54 PM »

I've also got something I don't want: no £70 giant walker/super-heavy.  It just doesn't fit with the fluff and the way DE fight.  Sadly, I am (almost) certain that this is exactly what we'll get with the new Codex, because it is what GW likes to do with every new release at the moment.


I remember reading a rumor somewhere or other that the dark eldar might get a coven unit that would fill the "super MC" slot. Sort of like a grotesque, but bigger.  Such a unit really wouldn't make sense as part of the lightning raids and precision strikes the true kin are known for, but such a model could be cool, and I can see a haemonculus making one for the lolz.  Alternatively, some sort of mega-talos would kind of make sense.

Edit: Also, does having Drazhar as a Lord of War sound good to anyone else? Vect seems our most obvious choice for a LoW following the trend of the other codices, but his benefits seem like they'd be genuinely fitting for an hq leader of armies type slot while Drazhar is a mostly-mute killing machine. Which of these two makes the most sense as a commander, and which seems most appropriate as a super mega killy tool.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 12:02:46 AM by Wyldhunt »

Offline Ludo

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Re: Next Dark Eldar Codex: What do you hope to see?
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2014, 12:44:51 AM »
I'd like to see Talos with an invulnerable save or FNP. 
Some way to deal with exploding vehicles killing so many infantry models when they explode.  Either improve FNP, reduce the strength for exploding open top vehicles, or another mechanic.

An anti tank option besides haywire grenades on wyches and dark lances. Something with the melta special rule would be great.

Vector dancer on razorwings

Plastic grotesques or different poses.  It's very tiresome to see a unit of them all posed exactly the same.
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Offline Dread

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Re: Next Dark Eldar Codex: What do you hope to see?
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2014, 03:15:04 AM »
Agree with all that too Ludo. But we do have the heat lance which is lance and melta. Better range on it, well it's good already, 6" more then a meltagun.
"Burning thru the universe in search of peace only brings more war. Peace is an illusion, war is reality, that is the way of things"

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Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Next Dark Eldar Codex: What do you hope to see?
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2014, 11:19:28 AM »
I don't remember if it was either the Drakes or Lictors that used to have this rule.... but I'd like to see it back for mandrakes.


Basically you nominated a piece of terrain and a turn. The unit was secretly hiding there. Then they pop out on designated turn. They could move, shoot and assault on the turn the came out.

Do this with some wargear options and a character for them and I think they be golden.

Be interesting if drugs and power from pain interacted....

Choose a style of drug. It has a base modifier that increases with Power from Pain.

Example: Muscle Stimulants - adds +1 to strength.
                   +1 pain token - Furious Charge
                   +2 Pain Tokens - +2 to strength (not cumulative with base boost boost)
                  + 3 pain tokens - x2 strength (not cumulative)

              Speed Boost - May add +2 inches to run/fleet roll (one or other per turn)
                  +1 pain token - +1 jink save to all attacks (if no jink save then 6+)
                 +2 pain token - May add +2 inches to run and fleet (same turn may use both)
                  +3 pain token - +1 jink save (cumulative with the 1 pain token)

           Regenerative stimulants - FnP (5+)
                +1 pain token - FnP (4+)
                +2 pain token - Regen a wound on a 4+, Very Bulky
                +3 pain token - It will Not Die

          Bone Growth - +1 armor save
                +1 pain token - +1 toughness
                +2 pain tokens - +1 armor save, Very bulky
                + 3 pain token -  +1 toughness, extremely bulky

        Twitch response time (for pilots, bikes, skyboards)  - +1 to jink save
                 +1 pain token - +1 bs
                +2 pain token - may re-roll jink save
                +3 pain token - Jink does not effect BS.
 

Remove random roll for drugs too. I hate that. Who does that!?! Gonna go into battle, shoot me up with.... eh whatever.... WHAT!
Perhaps have 6 or so different types of drugs - then have certain units able to take certain ones - so hameys and their kin could take Bone Growth drugs, regenerative etc... Then Drug dispensers allow for Hqs to take any.

An idea that has been floated around before - suicide squads from Haemeys.

We need to retain our class scalpel approach. FnP is not for us I think. Least not across the board. Leave that to the covens. Within covens I'd be fine with a super MC.

Something that uses two drug options and benefits from both. S/T 7 mc with 5 wounds - 4+ save, Regen and Bone growth drugs... thing would be a huge pain magnet.

And yes - wwp needs fixing too.

Allow assault out of it.  Allow units to be dedicated to come out - but if all WWp fail to be placed then they get destroyed. Allow venoms to come out of them - that was the whole point of the creation of the venom; to navigate through the WWP. Allow for Battle borthers (Eldar) to come through it too. Just makes sense imo.
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline Ludo

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Re: Next Dark Eldar Codex: What do you hope to see?
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2014, 12:27:18 AM »
Agree with all that too Ludo. But we do have the heat lance which is lance and melta. Better range on it, well it's good already, 6" more then a meltagun.

It's nice, but I don't like to field any of the few units that can carry them.  I'm hoping they make them a regular wargear upgrade so I can take them in warrior or trueborn squads.
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Offline Dread

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Re: Next Dark Eldar Codex: What do you hope to see?
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2014, 03:52:32 AM »
Yup, I agree with that too, but I still love my blasters.

Give the raider a 11 person capacity.
Mandrakes rending
Hellions an upgrade to deal with armor
"Burning thru the universe in search of peace only brings more war. Peace is an illusion, war is reality, that is the way of things"

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Offline nesbitt_bub1

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Re: Next Dark Eldar Codex: What do you hope to see?
« Reply #10 on: October 3, 2014, 06:19:39 PM »
Mine arrived today.

I'm not happy with it TBF.

I'm not going to spoil it for you guys, But there is a lot that just simply hasn't changed.

And the stuff that has changed will write off some armies, because things are now not there at all.

Only a few units got something that I would call worthwhile. Cronos, Beastmasters.

The rest.... well you guys will moan about it soon enough.

Offline Wyldhunt

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Re: Next Dark Eldar Codex: What do you hope to see?
« Reply #11 on: October 4, 2014, 12:31:11 AM »
Mine arrived today.

Only a few units got something that I would call worthwhile. Cronos, Beastmasters.

The rest.... well you guys will moan about it soon enough.

Please tell me what either of those units got that is a positive, because what I've taken away from skimming my codex today is that khymarae got a worse invul, razorwings became weaker against blasts and templates, and the cronos became pricier (by 40 points with my usual loadout) while simultaneously losing strength on its template attack.  I like that the cronos still provides some support to the rest of your army, but Power from Pain in general seems a bit less impressive, so I can't get as excited about the cronos as I once was.

Offline nesbitt_bub1

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Re: Next Dark Eldar Codex: What do you hope to see?
« Reply #12 on: October 4, 2014, 02:43:27 PM »
Beastmasters got a buff because you no longer need a beastmaster.

You could happily just take 1 clawed fiend, Or a small unit just of this beast type. What you gain is something that can be abused in small games. 500 point games you have a perfect disruption unit that is also reasonably fast. There also cheap for what you get. It can also deal with some unit types. And be resilient to small arms fire whilst still been a viable unit. Whats not to like about them?

Razorwing flocks should have always been swarms. I think that was an oversight in the last book that they let slide. They lost some wounds and gained some points I see it as a rebalanced of a broken unit that was only held in check by the beastmaster restrictions. Without those restrictions and using the old rules Razorwing flocks would have been insane.

The Khymera lost out but it's still usable and got cheaper.

The beastmaster itself is a viable unit as well. It's got the beast profile and can move through cover ect without a problem. They have access to better weapons at a price and can be made reasonably unique. They also have 18" shooting. For the points I'd take a unit of Beastmasters over trueborn or warriors. The unit can also pack a reasonable punch in CC with the unit wide access to those melee weapons. A few power swords, or agonisers you have a very efficient terrain hugging unit that should be able to get some points back. You still have access to PFP as well.

For the points I think the unit is a winner. But as I said it should be viewed as a new unit. It is not the same as the old beastmaster unit at all.


The Chronos is just a nice boost. It's not going to win you a game by itself. But as soon as it's gone past the first turn it's buffing more that itself. It should be one of those hang back in cover units, Keep it safe and use it to shoot and stay safe. There is no infantry unit that will not benefit from them after the first turn and some will benefit on turn 1. At it's points cost it's viable in lower points games. While you might have wanted something faster or shootier, I think the ability to be buffed without a roll, Every turn, In or out of combat is a realy nice improvement on it.


 


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