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Offline CheesyRobMan

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The New Codex
« on: June 29, 2014, 08:44:03 AM »
I'm kinda disappointed. I feel like a lot of the flavour Ork armies could have is gone.

But then again, you can put a Big Mek with a SAG on a warbike, which is bizarre and hilarious (I'm trying to imagine how steering works).

Might post some more in-depth thoughts at a later point.
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Offline Idaho

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Re: The New Codex
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2014, 04:58:05 PM »
Please quantify, as others I may as well be on Warseer... ;)

Offline OD from TV

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Re: The New Codex
« Reply #2 on: July 1, 2014, 03:34:02 AM »
I'm kinda disappointed. I feel like a lot of the flavour Ork armies could have is gone.
Hrm... that doesn't fill me with hope, that's actually the exact impression I got when I read through the last Nid Book, and with my copy lost in the warp of US Shipping I'm actually quite nervous. 

This year so far GW has in my mind really gone spiraling down, putting out such a sub-par Nid book that they're practically unplayable without dataslates from three separate online publications with no hardback option, renaming the IG and taking out some of its tanks while bringing out a tank that looks purely Orky, Ally changes that disallow an IG pdf with Ork mercs, 7th Edition Psychic Phase [obscenity deleted], 7th Edition formations and Unbound [multiple obscenities deleted], if GW really took the taste out of the Orks... I think I just might have to try and start a classic 40k group going back to the cores of 3rd or 4th edition.

GW had so much better prospects only a year ago!  They had released the first Supplement book Codex Iyanden which while having some bad fluff and not nearly enough tactical choices to it, it gave me hope.  Hope that they'd get out some good Supplement Codexs allowing for classic armies to be rebuilt.  For example they could have brought out a Night Lords Traitor Legion Supplement and I for one would have bought at least a dozen bike kits for a Chaos Biker Horde.  What Eldar player wouldn't buy Alaitioc, Saim Hann, or Biel Tan, especially if you put in the rules from the old Craftworld Codex in them giving back a similar or toned down Alaitioc Sniper Disruption Table, or the Saim Hann Wild Riders, or even Biel Tan Aspect Warrior Troop Choices!  And for the beloved Orks bringing back an Armageddon Styled Kult of Speed Supplement would be an answer to all my Orky dreams!

Unbound rules negate all of the best Supplement codex possibilities, so instead of giving an actual background to a specific force Supplements are now just blatantly things that should have been in the actual book that were cut out to make more money off us.  Would people still buy say a Kult of Speed Supplement?  Sure, but fewer people would feel the need to as with Unbound we can take as many Bikes, Buggies, Trakks, Koptas and Tanks as we want.  Sigh, 7th Edition has killed so much of my love of the game, trying to shine it on for a new Ork book which is somewhere in the mail is just making me grumpier than I've been in a good while.

I'm glad you mentioned the SAG Biker Cheesy, it's the one prospect that gives me hope at the moment.  It ain't much to go on, but... well it's something.

Peace
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Offline SKEETERGOD

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Re: The New Codex
« Reply #3 on: July 1, 2014, 01:20:13 PM »
I must disagree with Cheesey, I think the orks got a good deal this time. The codex itself is laid out by data sheet, so no handy army section with the stats all in one place like the old codex, and we lost a couple of special characters. The new format reminds me a bit of what happened to us back in 2nd edition. Makes all the new rules a bit harder to find. Definitely gonna need tabs for this book.

A few general notes:

We did not get any anti air units or weapons, so it looks like the tank bustas will still be a "have to take" part of my army.

I think they will have to come out with a FAQ soon, as I am confused on the pain boy issue. Is he a non HQ slot character like the mek, or does he use up the HQ slot?

They fixed the Waaagh, so that makes things interesting, and makes me want to start taking a warboss again. But they nerfed the mob rule.  :'(  Making it mandatory to take boss poles now.

As for how it effects my speed freaks, just a couple of notes for you all to ponder:

My current Big meks with KFFs will still be standard, but I am going to reconvert one to get rid of his burna and give him the Da Dead Shiny Shoota. Come on now, we all know twin link is an orks best friend.

The boys got better as they now come standard with stick bombs, and trucks and buggies got cheaper (points not $) and not to mention that buggies, and koptas got a squad size increase. Yes, you can now have six buggies or koptas a squadron!!! So I am very happy.

Of course, in the new book the planes are now included, so you don't have to carry around that older WD, but, you need WD 21 (21 June 2014) to have the rules for the looted wagon. The looted wagon rules are a bit like the IA Junka rules now, so that is an improvement.

My other favorites; the burna boys got a points increase, and the tank bustas got a decrease. Both now have dedicated transport options (truck) so it looks like my squads will have to decrease to 12.

The Flash Gits got a better gun, but lost their armor. However they can now take a dedicated transport, and a kaptain that has a bosspole. I will run the unit I already have, but I have to convert one to be a kaptain. I will see how they do.

The Nob bikers can no longer be a troop choice as warbosses lost their ability to make nobs scoring. As well as loosing their smoke cloud rule. So it looks like bikers are not in the equation for my lists this codex.

Not least of all is the Ork Warband on page 88. It doesn't say it has to be all foot sloggers, so my speed freaks can now have a Waaagh every turn but the first. (as long as I take six troop choices, which I do!!!) This means that the former idea of taking a green tide of 300 boys is now right out. I will be taking my six to nine truck boys squads.

Now, to go and rewrite my army lists. Dropping the nob bikers should give me plenty of points for a squadron of six buggies and a squadron of six deff koptas... Bwahahahahahahah!!!!   Then again, that uses up slots for my two burna bommas and dakka jet. AAAARGGGGGHHHHH!
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Offline Baron Wastelands

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Re: The New Codex
« Reply #4 on: July 1, 2014, 04:37:22 PM »
I think there's some really good stuff actually; I mean we may have 'lost' some of the old lists (pending formations at least) but most things are viable now, if sometimes in different ways. We just need to figure them all out, but early thoughts:

Mek guns look great - dedicated anti air, cheap batteries, and in 7th they can score backfield objectives if uncontested.
Bikes and buggies look good too, and tankbustas look properly fixed, as well as getting their own transport, like burnas did.
To qualify the bikes -they lost exhaust cloud, but got a big points drop and can be taken in big units; not to mention that you can still jink and turbo boost if you're really facing a lot of big guns, for a 3+ cover save.
Nob bikers took a bit of a hit initially, but you can now have a painboy and a KFF big mek to help their survivability, so I think they will still be a tough hammer. Not to mention that a killsaw big mek on a bike is starting to look like a better green torpedo for AV 14 than the old one did!
Cheap vehicle spam also looks decent to me, (trukks and buggies by the bucketload), MANZ are great and can take more HQ options - and although we lost invuln saves by and large, we got some nice toys for HQs.

All in all, I'd say it was a good time to be green.

P.S. Skeetergod, the traktor kannon is anti-air; and themaximum sizes for buggies and koptas is 5 for both unless I'm missing something? Big boost for buggies, but same for koptas, which haven't changed much, although rokkits are now free! Interestingly, Kans now come in six-packs ...
« Last Edit: July 1, 2014, 05:14:51 PM by Baron Wastelands »

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Offline SKEETERGOD

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Re: The New Codex
« Reply #5 on: July 2, 2014, 10:41:15 AM »
Yes, in my initial drool over the new codex I did indeed misquote the unit size. So, only five buggies per squadron. Still an improvement. And now since deff koptas are one price fits all, I think they will see more action this book.

Since I am a speed freak, non moving grot guns are not in my repertoire, so essentially, I need a truck load of lootas or tank bustas for anti air. I was so hoping for the gun truck equivalent as seen in IA8 and the Apoc books.

One thing that I am sad about is the boarding plank got naffed (yes, worse than nerfed) so now all my trucks will have to have wrecking balls instead.

I think that whomever rewrote that kit rule must be a BA player and was tired of getting his death company dreads killed by orks in a truck.....

One other thing I noticed, shoota boys are now a point more expensive. Seems they don't like my drive by boys either.  ;)

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Offline Baron Wastelands

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Re: The New Codex
« Reply #6 on: July 2, 2014, 05:26:49 PM »
Ha ha, yes I had the same thought about dreadnought players nerfing boarding planks! Maybe they read one of your gleeful accounts of dreadbashing...

Artillery can move, I think, but I take your point about speed. But they're so cheap for how resilient they are, I'm going to find it hard not to field at least 1 battery (the price tag for just 1 might help me not, of course... but I will try to come up with some kitbash plan)

The +1 pt for shoota boys is a bit mystifying, but I guess people had started taking nothing but (with boyz), so maybe it was to be expected. With the new potential assault range from a trukk (6+4d6+2?), I think we might see a return to slugga & choppa boyz ... I'm glad I didn't convert ALL of mine now ...

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Offline Ork E Nuff

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Re: The New Codex
« Reply #7 on: July 7, 2014, 05:06:39 PM »
I'm a bit ambivalent about the new codex...I was excited to get my grubby hands on it after sooooo much hype, but a bit let down at the same time...Kinda like watching episode I of the StarWars movies...I like the easy read, the convenient data, the expanded meks; but...What happened to my cybork body?  No invul save?  Now, is it worth it?  Painboyz taking it's own HQ slot?  For what?  Join a unit and it gets the feel no pain rule?  And let's not forget:  mob rulez are not spelled out very well.  I see there's a table to determine what happens should you fail the leadership test, but are we no longer a "horde"-ish army?  Does size really not matter?  I can only hope that we get a better definition and clarification in the forthcoming FAQ.  Now, maybe some of my dismay would be alleviated by actually purchasing and reading the 7th ed rules...maybe next month...Still, it's something.  I like the general make over, I like the reintroduction of clans and freebooterz...shoul d make for interesting themed armies.  I like the Ork Warband formation...it could grow on me.  Flash gitz look cool, but I'm holding off on them until I can play them once.  All in all, I like it, but I guess Iwanted something more...either bringing back the choppa rule or keeping some of our more cherished rules intact.  I guess time will tell if this is really what we wanted or not.
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Offline SKEETERGOD

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Re: The New Codex
« Reply #8 on: July 8, 2014, 08:17:06 PM »
Ya, I am kinda confused by the pain boy entry myself. If I use the standard force org chart I can take two pain boys as my two HQ choices and not worry about having a boss, but then who would be my warlord?

Of course a lot of the stuff I used to use got nerfed bad, like boarding planks and red paint. Both are no longer worth the points now. The ramshackle table disappeared and got a silly rule in its place, and exploding trucks will now cause a strength four hit instead of the previous strength three, so more wounded boys.

The KFF now only protects the vehicle the mek is mounted in, and meks can no longer take burnas.

Then the flash gits got a bit nerfed as well, sure they got a slightly better gun, but lost their weapon upgrades, heavy armor, cybork, and pain boy. Of course Badruck can be your warboss now, but that takes up a painboy slot.

Only a warboss had the waagh rule, so if you want a waagh, you have to take a warboss. That takes away a pain boy slot as well.

Shootas boys now cost more than slugga boys. And the way the wording of the upgrades are now the nob can't take a big shoota anymore.

Of course everyone has noticed that nobs can no longer get cybork, and no pain boy either unless he is your armies general.

I think whomever wrote this codex was secretly anti ork, as almost all the good stuff got nerffed or deleted. They even deleted the looted wagon entry, but "fixed it" by putting into last weeks WD. The one thing I was really disappointed about was no anti air unit. Gee golly, the beakies got two new ones, even the IG got a new one, but not the orks. So, I guess having a dakka jet is a requirement now.

The good thing is that it is just hard to screw over the ork boy. Our basic infantry remains roughly the same, except they gave them grenades for the same points. Still just as worthless, since we are initiative 2, but now we can charge necrons in cover and swing simo... (sad lol)

Maybe I just got used to the good stuff we had, and now that we lost it, I am singing sour grapes until I learn the new tricks and tactics of the current codex, (that we will likely be stuck with for six or more years). I think I was upset that we lost scar boys and the choppa rule last time the codex came out, but was pacified by the improvement to the nobs and battle wagon.

There are a few good things for ork players in this codex and it's supplement, so I will have to focus more on those to see what I can come up with.

Now, if I was a kan wall player I would be excited, as kans now come in six packs, two new heavy walkers, and the stompa is in the codex. With the new way of making a list you could have a whole army of walkers. Alas, I am a speed freak.

The speed freaks will still ride out, and there will still be much noise and fun, I will just have to figure out new sneaky ways to krump them space marine whiners with all the new toys that they have.
"It needs but one foe to breed a war. And even those who have not swords can still die upon them" (Lady Eowyn)
     We orks are not about being the hero; We orks are about being the mob.
                         
Quote from: angel of death 007
Skeetergod: (adj) A crazy fascination for all things combustible mixed with an unhealty lust for red paint. see also Speed Freak

Offline OD from TV

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Re: The New Codex
« Reply #9 on: July 8, 2014, 10:45:51 PM »
I do constantly try to remain an optimist, and as such here's the good I see with our dex...

  • Painboyz are finally an option for all for HQ instead of just us that have IA 8.
  • Improved unit size for Stormboyz, Buggies/Trakks, Big Gunz, Killakanz & Bikers
  • Pretty much every unit can take a Trukk
  • Our flyers are in book, so no more carrying around a WD or the Death from the Skies book
  • The Kommandos got the very needed Stealth USR
  • Grot Riggers conferring It Will Not Die
  • Tankbustas are no longer effected by a rule rendering them nearly ineffective AND got the tankhunter USR back
  • Weapon options for Koptas are now free
  • Buggies/Trakks can Outflank!
  • Good point drop of Buggies, Stormboyz, Bikes
  • KFF is an Invul save instead of cover, meaning it can't be ignored by the plethora of Ignores Cover weapons
Well that's all the positive things I can pull.  They are severely outweighed by the negatives though.

I think whomever wrote this codex was secretly anti ork, as almost all the good stuff got nerffed or deleted. They even deleted the looted wagon entry, but "fixed it" by putting into last weeks WD.
We were lucky in the last edition to get the one game designer GW has that likes Xenos armies, Phil Kelly.  One of the reasons why we were hit so hard, is because Armybooks are no longer the purview of a single writer.  Its now a design team, which means we get Cruddance and Ward on the board. 

I don't know for sure, but I'd bet money that Ward was responsible for the bit of fluff where ALL Orks are now cannibals that are also zombies too.  Yeah, I'm not joking.  According to the fluff an Ork that has died will spontaneously get back up a couple hours later, so Orks are now zombies. The Imperial Primer orders that Ork bodies be burned now to ensure they're dead instead of avoiding the dispersal of Orkoid Spores.  That's right, read the book's fluff! 

Speaking of which, in the fluff of the book the Ork manner of reproduction which was a fact since 3rd (if not GorkaMorka) is no longer known, it's only theorized that its via Spores or a new Ork separating off of another like a worm that's cut in half.  Everytime I try and read this book, regardless if its the rules section or the fluff I am simply reminded of Mass Effect 2's Big Bad repeating the phrase: "This Hurts You."

This is way worse than loosing Flash Gitz as a possible 20 strong mob, buggies in troop slots, Skarboyz, looting stuff from other codexs, the Mob Up rule, Warboss retinues and Big Mek retinues.  This new rulebook just hurts plain and simple.

I understand that it is a good thing to learn an armies new tricks and troubles, and that change is the one constant of the universe so we all must adapt to it.  [obscenity deleted]

Peace
~OD
« Last Edit: July 8, 2014, 11:19:42 PM by OD from TV »
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Offline GaleRazorwind

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Re: The New Codex
« Reply #10 on: July 9, 2014, 11:09:43 AM »
I haven't taken a look at the new dex yet, but I wanted to point something out about HQ slots since it sounds like they are very crowded. Keep in mind that with 7th edition, you can take as many detachments as you want and still be battleforged as long as each detachment has the minimum 1 HQ and 2 Troops, and how often are you NOT going to have at least 4 troops choices in an Ork list? That's 4 HQ's right there. 6 if you take 6 troops.
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Re: The New Codex
« Reply #11 on: July 9, 2014, 12:13:40 PM »
Bear in mind that a lot of the themed armies are delivered via formations in Waaaggh! Ghazghkull. 

Unbound armies are not and probably never will be warhammer world tournament legal because they too easy to abuse and definitionally impossible to restrict.

Formation-based armies, on the other hand, work. Want a 90 - strong stormboyz unit as your 1,000 point army? Vulcha Skwad can be  exactly that. Tank company? Blitz Brigade. Pure Meganobz? Wheel out da bully boyz and theyre now WS5. I'll bet that you won't see "make unit X troops" characters from now on in any codex  in favour of formations.

The mob rule is still size dependant: a big ork mob with a character with a bosspole auto-passes morale checks on a rerollable 2+ in exchange for one or two orks getting a good shoeing. That's still a pretty good deal but does make leadership (I.e.  where you put the warbosses) important.
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Re: The New Codex
« Reply #12 on: July 9, 2014, 02:38:04 PM »
After seeing some of the other posts, it's great to see that I'm not alone...I'm also aware that I need to probably look over the 7th ed rules to understand the subtle nuiances of the game as it stands now.  It's a bit frustrating to think that a "think tank" of developers get to write codex material, vs. a dedicated writer/developer who has a proven track record...Why did it have to include Matt Ward...I can't think of anybody I know who's familiar with the game that can truly say they like his approach to any army...must have a following in England...Now, I have to get a copy of WAAAGGH: Ghazgkull to understand formations?  Great...The background sucking sound is GW trying to empty my bank account...Whatever happened to rulebook/codex?  Was that combination so bad, so out-dated?  Now, we're being bombarded with additional mission books that will inevidently contain certain rule rewrites that will explain certain problems that we're bound to have without them.  We are literally going down the path towards being on the great hamster wheel of "have to buy something else to understand what it is I've got...".

OD...I know you feel my pain, just from what you've mentioned that we've lost.  Am I giving up?  No...If I were easily swayed, I'd have thrown in the towel literally decades ago when our orks were little more than goons in bright paint jobs (but at least they could carry boltguns and plasma cannons...)  I'm still playing, I'm still collecting, I'm still converting...It's just a little more murky now than it used to be...or maybe I'm developing cataracts...either way, I'll work this as we all will.  What else do great fungoid space monstrousities due in a crisis situation?  We WAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGG GGGGGHHHHHHHHH and grab for our dice...
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Offline OD from TV

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Re: The New Codex
« Reply #13 on: July 9, 2014, 05:12:35 PM »
Keep in mind that with 7th edition, you can take as many detachments as you want and still be battleforged as long as each detachment has the minimum 1 HQ and 2 Troops
Yeah, multi detachments for lots of characters is really the only approach to go, but it still doesn’t feel right to me.  Army composition was a layer of metagaming that forced us to make tough decisions, and I always felt that it added such dimension to the game.  Multi Force Org charts/detachments never really felt right to me, almost as if I was cheating despite the fact that it’s been an option for so long, and don’t get me started on Unbound.  I just have to adjust… or simply play house games which don’t have to be dictated by 7th Edition.

Bear in mind that a lot of the themed armies are delivered via formations in Waaaggh! Ghazghkull. 
I haven’t seen it yet, but I am sure you are right.  The way they did this Supplement book feels like day 1 DLC for a video game, stuff that should have been in what I paid for, and cut out to make yet another sale.  I’ve never been a fan of formations, seeing it as a stupid gimmick, but again I have to adjust, I know this, and I accept that.

The mob rule is still size dependant: a big ork mob with a character with a bosspole auto-passes morale checks on a rerollable 2+ in exchange for one or two orks getting a good shoeing.
Yes you get a reroll to try and mitigate running away.  As for one or two Orks getting lost, pretty much every time with my rolls I was loosing 4-6.  Yes part of that was my rolling, but in each of the four games I’ve played I’ve lost out big time due to Ld deaths, which can be triggered in any phase.  And I don’t think you’ve played against armies that tote out Fear yet.

It's a bit frustrating to think that a "think tank" of developers get to write codex material, vs. a dedicated writer/developer who has a proven track record...Why did it have to include Matt Ward...I can't think of anybody I know who's familiar with the game that can truly say they like his approach to any army...must have a following in England
I have yet to meet someone that likes Ward’s fluff, but there are some who likes how he writes Overpowered rules.  I don’t know exactly why they’ve changed to a Dev Team verses single author, but Orks and Nids are perfect reasons why it was a bad choice.  When you have an author that loves an army, they’ll be able to put out a good book that can stand well on its own feet.  This is due to a term known as personal bias.  When you have a team, there are multiple personal biases floating around, and when a team for the most part wants a Xenos army to be punching bags for their beloved SMurfs and IG, that is what is going to happen. 

We don’t know how big the team is, but we know of the big three, Phil Kelly, Robin Cruddance, and Matt Ward.  We know that Phill Kelly is a Xenos player, and we know that Cruddance and Ward are not big fans of Xenos having a leg up on the Imperials.  It’s their personal bias, the two really love the Imperium in the same crazy way that we love Orks, and the problem with personal bias is that it often manifests itself unconsciously.

In 5th Edition I don’t think Cruddance knowingly broke the Tyranid army into a near unplayable force.  I think he honestly did his best to try and make them a good army.  He failed in my opinion (and a lot of other players feel the same), but I do believe he tried.  His codex for IG was one of the best if not the best 5th Edition book after all, but he loves the IG with a passion, and that bias shows through.

I can’t say why the dev team thought the old Mob Rule was overpowered, but I do believe they must have thought so otherwise they wouldn’t have changed it in the manner which they did.  Taking that away makes a mob of 30 boys a lot less intimidating though. 

7 Wounds in any phase will trigger a Morale Check, a single successful kill from a Sniper causes a Pinning Test, if you’re in CC with something causing Fear that forces a check which if failed not only forces WS1 but unless you get that 1 you loose some extra boyz, and this is just the tip of the Iceburg, there are many more ways to trigger Ld/Morale/Pinning tests, all of which have the potential for the Orks to kill each other.

If I was playing against Orks, even without a list tooled for Orks, it isn’t hard to Ld check them to an easy victory.  That 30 Mob, I can cause 7 wounds or more with a couple different Psychic Powers.  And in the shooting phase, 7 kills there and then move on to another enemy unit.  One player turn can force a plethora of Ld checks that we previously didn’t have to worry about.  And don’t forget Trukk mobz, if their ride blows up you have to take a Pinning test (and should you loose 3+ Orks to both the vehicle explosion and the Ld test, then you have to take a Morale test for loosing 25%).

Yes I know I sound like I’m just sour grapes over the whole thing, and that’s a fair assessment.  But Ld is what kills the Orks now like no other, and there are so many ways to cause Ld checks that I didn’t even write down, not to mention the stray unit/power/ability that forces rerolls on successful Ld checks.  I’m very disappointed that my Orks are now timid squabbling cannibal zombies.  Incredibly disappointed.

Adaption is the only way through.  Adaptation and playing house games where I use the new codex like a coaster, the developers do call it a beer and chips game now after all.

Peace
~OD

EDIT: Forgot to mention, should something like a Sniper force a Pin test, which is passed by Breaking Heads or Squabble BUT those wounds cause 25% casualties you have to take a Morale Test.  That's already happened to me in game a couple times.
« Last Edit: July 9, 2014, 05:55:21 PM by OD from TV »
Truly beautiful work. That's the kind of stuff that makes a true mekanik cry tears of joy.
OD, you once again prove that your are still the freakin Da Vinci of plasticard

Offline Wyldhunt

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Re: The New Codex
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2014, 12:56:55 AM »

EDIT: Forgot to mention, should something like a Sniper force a Pin test, which is passed by Breaking Heads or Squabble BUT those wounds cause 25% casualties you have to take a Morale Test.  That's already happened to me in game a couple times.

Actually, I was just recently made aware of the fact that snipers no longer seem to be Pinning weapons.  Check the sniper entry of your rulebook.  I owed an ork player an apology after using rangers against him and his 7th edition ork codex. Your point holds true for other pinning weapons though.  Missile launchers, for instance.

Offline OD from TV

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Re: The New Codex
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2014, 03:18:18 AM »
Wow, Snipers are no longer Pinning!  That's a shock, that was one of the only realistic things in 40k, real troopers getting hit with Sniper fire tend to get disoriented and freak out (hence the Pinning rules in the first place).  It bodes great for us Orks, but also feels a bit off to me, not to mention another punch in the groin to the Alaitioc Craftworld (ahh they'll be fine).

Yet again I have to remind everyone, (as well as myself) that not all is doom and gloom for the Greenskins.  I did write up that list of pros a couple posts up, and I know there's more even if I am at a lack of seeing them.

As GaleRazorwind stated, we have the option for multiple detachments which if you look on pg 122 of the 7th Edition BRB each Allied Detachment will also get Objective Secured, so no worries on that front.  We can and likely will need the FnP bonuses from the Painboyz (who I sadly don't think are like the Mekboyz, they totally use a slot).  I imagine there will be lots of Force Org charts in a 2000 list for Orks now, the Primary with a Warboss Warlord for Waaagh, and a couple Troop units of Grots, then each Allied with a couple Painboyz and boyz.  Plus when you make a list that way you can get a ton of Mekboyz with 1-2 per HQ choice for each detachment.

And as much as I loathe the concept, we can put together some amazing Unbound armies, including the klassic stylings of the Kult of Speed with lots of buggies/trakks, bikes, koptas and tanks (although I'd personally leave the Trukks in the garage).  We also can use Unbound for a good Goff Meganob force with lots of Wagons and those shiny Megas can get lots of Painboyz, Bosses and Meks for backup.  For those of you who have seen the awesomness of the Deff Wing graphic novel we can certainly replicate the amazing aerial Waaagh.  And hey we can Unbound an army of nothing but Lootas with Painboyz for an ultra cheesy Dakka force.  I can even use Unbound to pull together my Bad Moons and the Cyborked Nid army that the Bad Moons have enslaved as a single army instead of two different armies.

Unbound will always leave a bad taste in my mouth, and I know that I'd really feel like I'd be cheating with an Unbound army, even in a friendly game.  But that's because I'm frankly a dinosaur in the game, and still occasionally think I can set up a crossfire and those rules haven't been in the game since 3rd.  I need to throw the old rules and concepts out of my brain, perhaps I just need a good Paindok brain surgery.  I already dread the day I see an Unbound army filled with Imperial Knights, Wraithknights, Riptides and Baneblades, but that is unfortunately the 40k landscape of the future. 

There are really only two choices that 7th Edition provides.  Bury your head in the sands while shoving your fingers in your ears going "lalalalalala" or adapting to the games major changes.  I know I'm going to be mostly doing homegames, but that's me, when you have a home with some spare room you get motivated to make more room and have a good den with a game table (I'm actually in the planning phases to build myself a good gaming table for the house).

Remember all is not lost, although I'm already looking forward to the next edition of Orks in the hopes that we don't get the Nid treatment.

Peace
~OD
Truly beautiful work. That's the kind of stuff that makes a true mekanik cry tears of joy.
OD, you once again prove that your are still the freakin Da Vinci of plasticard

Offline adamscurr

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Re: The New Codex
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2014, 08:42:07 AM »
So my initial thoughts are not so positive here after reading everything.  I feel like this is what happened with Xenos: Everyone at GW was sitting around saying, man we have been coming up with some over the top codexes lately, we should make the next ones not as good!  ???

So, when I expected some glory to come back to my orks (because I would win about 30/70, but most wins came from inexperienced players and most loses came from experienced players with newer armies). I thought, ok, with the new codex we will finally have some cool stuff to crush for a little while.  Sure, there will be a flood of ork armies like when this codex came out, but I'll at least have a fully modded, fully painted army! lol

Instead, we got a mediocre codex combined with astronomically high prices on the new models.  I mean seriously, did see the price tags on that stuff.  Maybe it's just the scratch building, I'm a teacher with a morgage talking, but I can't throw 65 dollars down on three meganobz...  That seems a little over the top! The Gorka stomper thing...  105!  Wowsers Batman!!!  ;)

I'll get the new codex and hope for some glimmers of jewels to be found within...  I'm not holding my breath though!

Adam


Cause We's Da Orks, and You's Not!!!

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: The New Codex
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2014, 11:10:54 AM »
Not an ork player but have always loved their army, so far that reason I got the codex. (Plus a mate of mine plays em, and I wanna know the best ways to skewer an orkl  :P)

So a few things I noticed:

- Orks now have the best anti-air gun in the game. The traktor kannon just makes me scared. A full unit of these, for a measly 150 pts, will be a huge anti air threat imho.

- Ghazghkull as the warlord of an Ork Warband Formation almost seems like an auto include at 2k+ lists. Stampede special rule plus Ghaz's rule Prophet of Gork and Mork.... very strong combo there

- Mek tools can now bring back hull points. Combined with the ability to spam meks, that really can see the tenacity of ork vehicles increase a lot. With the changes to the vehicle damage list in general, this is going to require dedicated focus fire to bring down vehicles - or very specialized anti-tank weapons (ap 1/2). Couple this with the new and improved grot riggers, and a mechanized ork force will be hard to bring down.

So a mechanized Ork Warband formation, with Ghaz as the warlord and 6 units of truk boys with grot riggers - backed up by a unit ir two of Traktor Kannons.... - that'd be a fun and competitive (and not unbound either - though I have not as many issues with unbound so long as its not used for WAAC) army to play.

Just a few points.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 11:17:57 AM by faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run) »
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline angel of death 007

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Re: The New Codex
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2014, 03:48:05 PM »
So my initial thoughts are not so positive here after reading everything.  I feel like this is what happened with Xenos: Everyone at GW was sitting around saying, man we have been coming up with some over the top codexes lately, we should make the next ones not as good!  ???

Instead, we got a mediocre codex combined with astronomically high prices on the new models.  I mean seriously, did see the price tags on that stuff.  Maybe it's just the scratch building, I'm a teacher with a morgage talking, but I can't throw 65 dollars down on three meganobz...  That seems a little over the top! The Gorka stomper thing...  105!  Wowsers Batman!!!  ;)

I think the deciding factor will be the Space Wolves codex which if rumors are right should be the next dex after the campaign box set.  If orks sets the stage then maybe SW won't be the go to powerbuild army... and maybe they will actually fix JAWS.  Those rune priests should be able to be shut down relatively easy and with no more HQ manipulating organization hopefully SW will fall into the same boat as everyone else. 

I am hoping they are using the ork codex to try to balance out armies.  Give them both pro's and con's not like SW or Blood Angels where their only con's seemed to add a benefit rather than detract. 

As far as data sheets and multiple detachments go, first thing that comes to mind was the really old Epic 40k computer game they came out with.  You could field up to 4 detachments of them you could either build your own or use some of the premade detachments.   It was a fun little game which i purposely still have an old computer just to play it.  So I sort of like that aspect of it.  I do feel the game is getting to be too much about books with rules book, codex, supplement book, and now multiple campaign books.  They add something to the game but it seems as though GW is gearing the game system itself toward them rather than using them to supplement games.

I saw the $65 price tag for the meganobz and i have been wanting mega nobz for awhile.  It really isn't that bad considering they were a little over 20 a piece for the metal ones.  The price tags that really shocked me were the Gorkanaut and Flash Gitz.  Gorkanaut should have been about the price of the battle wagon or at most the riptide.  Even at the riptide price it is very steep for a single model.  The flash gitz are rediculous.    Nobz $25 and gitz $53 ?  how does that compute.   The only thing i can think of is that most people will only be buying 2 boxes of gitz and they want to make X amount of dollars in sells.  I got one box my LGS had when they were going out of business so I got them at half off along with a box of nobs.  I am planning on using those two boxes to hopefully make 10 flash gits as the gitz box set does have quite a few bits.  The mek guns are also way over priced and I will be converting myself some tractor kannons. (maybe out of plastic tractors).  The new models do look nice though and my birthday being around the corner i know i will see some of them. 

Hopefully GW just didn't slam us with a mixed codex I hope it is more of the stage in which to model codex's after.  So that all armies have both pros and cons....  and reasonable cons you darn Blood Angels...  who get your cake and eat it too.  Only time will tell.




 


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