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Offline Wyddr

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The State of Fantasy
« on: May 18, 2014, 01:31:40 PM »
Hey, folks. I realize almost nobody wanders down this end of the forum, but as 7th Edition threatens to scare many in my gaming group away from 40K, I'm thinking about resurrecting my quest to get people to play Fantasy. I'm at least one edition out of date, though (I think)--I've got the big fat rulebook with the fold-out siege in the fluff section and the magic phase with 2D6 power dice determined each turn.

Anyway, how is Fantasy doing these days? I've heard some complaints, but how much has the game changed? Pros and Cons of this edition?

Offline Irisado

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Re: The State of Fantasy
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2014, 02:18:34 PM »
I've not played very much Fantasy at all, but the few games that I did play made me stop in exasperation.  It's an infantry block game now to such an extent that you need 40 plus models in your rank and file core units to have a chance of doing well.  I just don't have that many models (for my Empire army at any rate, I can just about do it with my Vampire Counts force), and without those kind of formations, I just don't see how you can win without a significant slice of luck, or if your opponent makes some tactical errors.

Cavalry, in particular, really don't get a good deal in the current edition of Fantasy, so if, like me, you like mounted units, you'll be disappointed.  Other units are a mixed bag, depending on the army, and special rules which they benefit from.

The rules are also more complicated in my opinion, and involve too many minutiae, a bit like how 40K is going (you'll find a number of similarities).

That's about as much as I can say, since I'm not well versed in how strong any of the armies apart from my own are at the moment, and I'm disinclined to play any more games, since the ones I did play weren't enjoyable for me.
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: The State of Fantasy
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2014, 04:55:49 PM »
I look at the current edition of Fantasy as the proto-edition of 6th ed 40k.  They tried to make it more random because the WAAC players were breaking the game, and they went way too far into the fact that the game became more of a beer and pretzels game than something you can really play at a competitive level.

The biggest problem is that no matter what you do, no matter how well you play, no matter how well you built your list, someone can get off a high level spell and the game is completely changed.  I've seen a 100 man unit of Night Goblins with 4 wizards and 2 heroes in it get hit by Dwellers and the unit be left with 10 Night Goblins, everything else died.

I have also seen a Lord of Change fly up the flank of a Lizardman army and cast Purple Sun on the boosted level and the template bounced through the entire army, killing around 80% of the models.

If a game can be won because of a single dice roll, I dunno... I stopped playing Fantasy for a while because I was just getting bored with it.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: The State of Fantasy
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2014, 07:12:14 PM »
That sounds like the edition I last played, actually. Hasn't there been a new one in the past two or three years or so? I've played (and liked) the one that came out shortly before 6th Ed, but I thought it got an update.

EDIT: I guess not, having just checked the website. Just all the army books have been updated. Hmmmm... Well, that sounds encouraging to me. (especially speaking as a guy who liked 6th Ed 40K)
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 07:13:33 PM by Wyddr »

Offline Caustic

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Re: The State of Fantasy
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2014, 09:31:16 PM »
I bought an Empire army a few years ago, and gradually I've been learning Fantasy on the side for the extra challenge. The current edition of Fantasy does have its weaknesses, with most games consisting of large infantry block versus large infantry block and the winner being the one who widdles down the other by game end. Personally I prefer a more ranged approach for my army, fielding Great Cannons, Helblasters, Handgunners and Outriders and it's proving to be kinda fun at least for the first few turns.

The biggest flaw with the current edition is the Magic imo, and mainly the big power spells that don't actually inflict any wounds (so resistance doesn't matter) but instead force a characteristic test by model where if you fail you instantly die. This feature greatly discourages the use of expensive special characters and degrades the game as a whole I feel. As a concession towards my army, I also think that the Balistic Skill of the crew should have an impact on Cannonballs.

Considering my low amount of experience with Fantasy though, I don't really know what they should do to accomidate for these inconsistancies.

Offline Lonewolf

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Re: The State of Fantasy
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2014, 11:44:19 AM »
Well this edition of WHFB saw me basically quit the game (in other words havent played a game in over 2 years now), though truthfully, this had probably more to do with moving 170 km away from my gaming group than with the game itself, but, in the 10 or so games i played, i never really could get myself into that increased randomness in the movement and magic phase (i think i made a lenghty post in the past about this). The more you increase the randomness in a game, the less important become the other factors (mainly list building and skill).

Also the rulechanges made one of my armies, the wood elves, pretty much obsolete, since the one thing they are very bad at is building big infantry blocks and skirmishers got hit very hard by the nerfbat. In addition to that, i didnt like the changes in the latest ork armybook and would have preffered very much to use the old (outdated) rules instead of the new ones (i mean really, what did they do to the Waaagh rule?!). Also i disliked the treatment army specific magic items got (pretty much completly gone).

So year, i didnt like the direction into which WHFB was/is headed.


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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: The State of Fantasy
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2014, 02:23:23 PM »
Well to be fair, a lot of the army specific magic items were already included in the core list of magic items, just under a different name.  I mean, every army had access to a 4+ ward save in some form or an other, they just regulated the price.  What bothered me about the cut down list of army magic items is that a lot of them just don't seem to be worth their points, they are way too expensive.

And I do feel you on the army being made obsolete.  My Dark Elf list was made illegal with the edition change and that was going through a time period when I had zero expendable income, wound up trading half the army away for some Khorne Daemons.  Then when I finally get around to building the Daemons up to be playable, they get a new army book that makes an entirely Khorne Daemon army pretty terrible.

All that I am left with are my Bretonnians, so I am waiting to see what their army book does for them and I may start building them up again.
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
Well I always liked the globals...
I knew I had fans!!!

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"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline Slick Samos

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Re: The State of Fantasy
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2014, 10:38:04 AM »
So in summary either play the previous edition or wait until the next one?
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Offline GaleRazorwind

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Re: The State of Fantasy
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2014, 01:59:15 PM »
I've seen a major surge in fantasy players in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area of MN. There are a lot of big pockets of Fantasy players and I even started a High Elf army, my first time playing the game ever. It has been an interesting challenge learning about all of the new tactics that are involved and the amount of planning needed. Even though I haven't been doing great, I still have pulled off a few wins (and tbf, a lot of my losses were in retarded team games with no coordination in army list making i.e. wtf 4 lvl2 wizards with one WoM pool?).

The two stores I go to with regular Fantasy nights pretty much fill up all their tables to capacity. The main one, Phoenix Games, has a territory control campaign going on right now with the hexagon tile kit in a good vs evil with neutral filling in whatever side needs players matchup. Evil has been kicking ass, but good is making a little bit of a counter push. We'll be going up to 2000 points this week and I am excited to get to field the Wonder Twins (Fire and Frost Phoenixes, "Beans" and "Achoo") and their sidekick "Sprinkles" (Dragon Mage). In case you were wondering, yes, I do like big monsters, and no, I don't care if they aren't as good. They are amazing looking models and I love running them. In a lot of ways, I feel like I am running my 6th ed 40K Daemons. The rest of my army is all Cav, including a nice big block of Dragon Princes with the banner of Trogdor the World Burninator.

So, as a person who is completely new to Fantasy, I'd say things are going okay, at least in the casual side of things.
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Re: The State of Fantasy
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2014, 02:45:14 PM »
I don't play Fantasy but the players I've talked to rave about it.  The new models are absolutely stunning, and they say the rules are very tight and well balanced.  Apparently, they even FAQ things on the regular.

It's really the opposite of the dataslate barf and FAQ wasteland of 40k, so I'm told.
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Offline GaleRazorwind

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Re: The State of Fantasy
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2014, 11:27:12 PM »
I started Fantasy because these guys were calling to me, crying for paint:

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Offline Calamity

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Re: The State of Fantasy
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2015, 03:56:02 PM »
I wanted to ask this question, and I was going to do a separate thread for it but this one seems suitable enough.  My question is...

What is going on in the Fantasy world?  I've been reading about all these rumors and it's like the place is literally falling apart.  And what will this mean for the game system itself?
« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 04:02:51 PM by Tangi »

Offline Wyddr

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Re: The State of Fantasy
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2015, 06:20:11 PM »
The rumors suggest the game is about to go through a giant realignment--a drop/consolidation of a significant number of factions, a change in how the game plays, a major change in the backstory, and so on. I might not be the same game at all before long.

Of course, they're just rumors right now. I haven't seen anything solid yet. 

Offline Lachdonin

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Re: The State of Fantasy
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2015, 07:13:50 PM »
Of course, they're just rumors right now. I haven't seen anything solid yet. 

Unfortunately, the rumours so far have been quite consistent... From who dies, to new models, to how royally effed up the world is getting.

The End Times lists are actually pretty fun, but the future is... Well... if there are any models you particularly like, it may be time to pick them up. They may not be around much longer.
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Re: The State of Fantasy
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2015, 04:17:56 AM »
My start at this wasIT WILL NOT BE GOOD AND A JOKE PLAYED ON ALL OF TRUE GAMER, NOW I see it different. Fun was had and jokes where made. I hope it stays that way...
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