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Author Topic: So, we got a new codex  (Read 10526 times)

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Offline Colonel Twisting Shadow

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Re: So, we got a new codex
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2014, 12:23:22 AM »
@ Rummy: Behemoth, Kraken, Gorgon, and Leviathan get multiple page write-ups.  Somewhere around what the SM are getting for First Founding chapters in their recent codex (maybe a bit more). There's full timelines for three separate Tyrannic Wars too, from first encounter with splinter fleets.  there are tidbits on Hive Fleet Hydra, Moloch, and Jormagundr too, but not lots. 

I was (skeptically) hoping for lots of Jormagundr fluff.  I know it's someone's personal fleet (a FW painter, I think), but I guess they got so popular they're cannon now.   Aside from a few mentions, and maybe a story there's not much though.  They get special mention on a Bio-Artifact though!

There's a pretty map showing where all these fleets are coming from with respects to the galaxy as we know it.  Leviathan is actually coming up through the galactic plane (like on the Z axis), which is pretty neat.

Also, a page on hive ships, two pages on the phases of planetary infestation (but no timeline; like in the Apoc reload book), and a few other goodies too; but to compensate they lumped some unit entries together (feeder organisms, artillery organisms, Guard).

There's still fluff for the Doom of Malan'tai and Parasite of Mortex, in spite of them not being included.
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: So, we got a new codex
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2014, 01:48:26 AM »
Not so bad then (fluff wise). Perhaps a drunken purchase later on in the month/year/decade. Depending on expansions, as said earlier, as the expansions may be more interesting in the long run (fluff wise).
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Offline Locarno

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Re: So, we got a new codex
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2014, 04:04:42 PM »
The Miasma cannon would seem a poor buy for an assault winged tyrant since you can now give them a thorax swarm, which doesn't impact their attacks.

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Offline Halollet

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Re: So, we got a new codex
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2014, 06:10:22 PM »
Maybe I'm just blind but I just realized that you can still get 2 heavy venom cannons or 2 straglethorns on 1 MC.

Now here's a question

Dakka fex or Tyranofex?

2 Strangle thorns (150 pts) vs Flesh borer hive (180 pts)
2 heavy venoms (160 pts) vs Rupture Cannon (205 pts)

Tyrannofex has more wounds and better save and has a torrent weapon it can fire on top of its big gun. Carnifex is slightly cheaper, has higher str, and can come in broods.

Strangle thorn is double the range of the flesh borer hive and higher strength so I think Carni would win that round

Rupture has longer range and higher strength but you have to roll to hit but could snap fire at a flyer and ruin its day if need be.  The blasts from the venom can scatter off your intended target but can still hit something anyways.

Thoughts?

------Edit---

Nope, never mind, its one a piece.  Apparently I can't read.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 06:48:29 PM by Halollet »
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Offline Dangerousdave0042

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Re: So, we got a new codex
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2014, 08:08:51 AM »
I'm thinking Flyrant and Deathleaper my two HQ units.

Deathleaper seems great. Only snap shots can be fired at him. No blast weapons, no templates. Use the "it's after me skill" on an enemy psyker and combined with SITW means you've nerfed the opponents psyker (unless GK where everyone is a psyker, but then at least SITW is more beneficial).

Start DL on the board an infiltrate him - move him forward turn 1 and then hopefully in turn 2 the Mawlocs arrive and don't scatter. Yes they might deep strike mishap, but unless you roll a 1 - who cares? PLUS IF YOU GO BACK INTO ONGOING RESERVE YOU GET TO DO THE SAME NEXT TURN AND YOU CAN'T BE SHOT AT IN ONGOING RESERVE! SO YOU GET A BONUS TERROR FROM THE DEEP AND DON'T GET SHOT. AWESOME. OVERALL I WOULD SAY THE POSSIBILITY OF DEEP STRIKE MISHAPPING HAS MADE THE MAWLOC BETTER!

I haven't worked out points yet, but a brood of 3 carnifexes looks great. How many HoW hits at I10 when all three of them hit the enemy!

Not sure how many points are left for troops! Plus will need some warriors now for synapse - they have a purpose now.

Plus I think 2 venomthropes are a must now.

I don't rate the Hive Crone at all.

The Harpy is possible I think, but I'd rather pay the extra points for another flyrant (except I can't as I've already used up my two HQ slots!).

The Tervigon has got a big nerf, but then it was rather overpowered and undercosted previously, you need to take off the points cost of about termagents (you should get at least this number spawned from it) to get it's true points value. I wouldn't completely write this unit off, but it won't get spammed like it was before.

Anyway, that's my tuppence.
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Offline Colonel Twisting Shadow

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Re: So, we got a new codex
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2014, 12:26:16 PM »
The Miasma cannon would seem a poor buy for an assault winged tyrant since you can now give them a thorax swarm, which doesn't impact their attacks.
Maybe the old thorax weapons?.  The new codex has no such claws (get it?), so it still counts as one of the two guns F/MC shoots each turn.

I'm thinking Flyrant and Deathleaper my two HQ units.

Deathleaper seems great…
Agreed, to the point where I've got one on order right now.  I think this guy is going to be the new discount HQ option.  Only a few points more than a naked Prime, and enough special rules (and synergies!) to justify his inclusion.  With the snapshot thing/stealth, he's potentially tougher than some of our MCs too…  Watch out for Skyfire units though

Quote from: Dangerousdave0042
The Tervigon has got a big nerf, but then it was rather overpowered and undercosted previously, you need to take off the points cost of about termagents (you should get at least this number spawned from it) to get it's true points value. I wouldn't completely write this unit off, but it won't get spammed like it was before.

Anyway, that's my tuppence.
This isn't even the the half of it.  With the new scuttling swarm rules, its damn near impossible to spam them.  Your looking at 335pts for every tervigon in the troops slot; and that's with everyone naked.  The triple tervigon list is dead, under (at LEAST) 2k; assuming you want to spend HQ slots on something with actual damage output.

I think one in the troops section will still be a standard (as a big mob of Termagants suddenly got a whole lot better), but it's unlikely you'll see more than that outside of thematic lists.  Like I said on the last page, I think I'm ripping the arms of at least one of mine for a Tyrannofex (it's the only 2+ in the whole codex, I think).

Tuppence?



Anyway, if/when we get our first expansion book (be it Kraken/Behemoth, or Vanguard), and it opens up a third HQ/heavy I think the codex will be A LOT more competitive.  Glancing around the internet, all the 'strong' lists tend to be at 2k for Dual FOC.  Not that power gaming is great basis for play, but 2 Tyrants and a death leaper would be nice.  Or a pair each of exocrines/mawlocs.  Or 12 Carnifex  ;D
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Offline Halollet

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Re: So, we got a new codex
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2014, 05:32:00 PM »
Hold up... I just thought of something.  I got my butt kicked by a Tau Deathstar unit in a league game.  In a Tau + Farsight list, the dude had 2 riptides and a commander in one unit.

So... my Flyrant with sword, whip, and poison charges and declares a challenge.

If he accepts with a riptide, then I have a good chance to outright kill it with the bonesword because of the rerolls and he doesn't get his FNP against it. If not I can take a riptide out of combat and I'll still probably win and I still might instant death something.  Then, if I win combat (which I probably will), and they break (there's a good chance since smiting a riptide is -5 ld test!), there's only a 1 in 36 chance that they'll get away.  Meaning in one turn I can wipe a Tau Deathstar pretty easily.

That seems a lot easier then it should.  Unless they get their shields up successfully, then it might be a bit harder.  I could still tie them up for a while until the sheilds fail or a get a lucky shot through.

Have I missed something or are flyrants just that damn good?

Even hit a WraithKnight with Paroxym and its only hitting your flyrant on a 5+ if you don't outright kill it on the charge!


« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 05:38:30 PM by Halollet »
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Offline Gunner_Sabot_Tank

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Re: So, we got a new codex
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2014, 05:36:38 PM »
The Miasma cannon would seem a poor buy for an assault winged tyrant since you can now give them a thorax swarm, which doesn't impact their attacks.
Maybe the old thorax weapons?.  The new codex has no such claws (get it?), so it still counts as one of the two guns F/MC shoots each turn.

I think what he meant was the thorax swarm doesn't take up a set of arms so you can kit it out for CC and still have a shooting attack.
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Offline Master Bio-Titan BT

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Re: So, we got a new codex
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2014, 08:44:00 AM »
@ Colonel:  Tuppence- A UK silver or bronze coin equal to 2 cents.  AKA, "My two cents"


I only recently got my `dex yesterday and browsed over the units in the back of the book as my Nyquil was kicking in.  Am I correct or just drunk from Nyquil, but we can now take mixed weaponry in a unit of Termagants?  Does this mean we can screen our own unit with cheap Fleshborer Termagants in the front and have Devilgants in the back as we move up the field?  That way the Fleshborers take the wounds before having to allocate wounds to the Devourers!?


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Offline Halollet

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Re: So, we got a new codex
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2014, 09:57:23 AM »
@ Colonel:  Tuppence- A UK silver or bronze coin equal to 2 cents.  AKA, "My two cents"


I only recently got my `dex yesterday and browsed over the units in the back of the book as my Nyquil was kicking in.  Am I correct or just drunk from Nyquil, but we can now take mixed weaponry in a unit of Termagants?  Does this mean we can screen our own unit with cheap Fleshborer Termagants in the front and have Devilgants in the back as we move up the field?  That way the Fleshborers take the wounds before having to allocate wounds to the Devourers!?

You're not drunk, yes you can do that. You can mix weapons with every unit actually. Just things like toxin sacs and adrenal glands have to but unit wide.  Helps warriors but not enough.  You can hide bone swords in the unit now but by the time you add on all the other biomorphs to get them in combat I don't think they're worth it.
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Offline Master Bio-Titan BT

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Re: So, we got a new codex
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2014, 10:13:00 AM »
I think that one of the things that people forget about Warriors is their ability to spread out in a single file line and provide a very large area of synaptic coverage.  Paired up with some Venomthroapes and you should worry little about keeping that coverage intact.  If you have enough big bugs to distract your enemy from focusing fire on your Warriors then you have a very reliable synaptic coverage.  It's a no brainer that Tyranids must work in synergy to work out well.


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Offline Dangerousdave0042

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Re: So, we got a new codex
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2014, 01:15:43 PM »
I also think that Ymgarl mutation is good on the HT (or Tervigon). You must change the mutation at the start of the assault phase. So ....

At the start of my assault phase I choose plus one armour save - ie I have a 2+ armour save on my Tyrant, Tervigon etc during my opponents shooting phase.

Then at the start of their assault phase I change it to either of the other two (it really doesn't matter which if I'm not in combat).

Then at the start of my assault phase I choose plus one armour save.

Rinse and repeat.

Yes it does cost some points, but I have now in effect got a 2+ armour save on my flyrant. Of course it does nothing for the grounded test, but ....

Of course if you're being meltad or lascannoned it doesn't make a difference, but those pesky sternguard vengeance rounds won't get past your armour.
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Offline LoH

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Re: So, we got a new codex
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2014, 02:03:27 PM »
I also think that Ymgarl mutation is good on the HT (or Tervigon). You must change the mutation at the start of the assault phase. So ....

At the start of my assault phase I choose plus one armour save - ie I have a 2+ armour save on my Tyrant, Tervigon etc during my opponents shooting phase.

Then at the start of their assault phase I change it to either of the other two (it really doesn't matter which if I'm not in combat).

Then at the start of my assault phase I choose plus one armour save.

It doesn't work that way, given that the mutation is worded such that it lasts until the end of the phase (similar to Chaos Spawn).
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Offline Halollet

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Re: So, we got a new codex
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2014, 02:05:01 PM »
I also think that Ymgarl mutation is good on the HT (or Tervigon). You must change the mutation at the start of the assault phase. So ....

At the start of my assault phase I choose plus one armour save - ie I have a 2+ armour save on my Tyrant, Tervigon etc during my opponents shooting phase.

Then at the start of their assault phase I change it to either of the other two (it really doesn't matter which if I'm not in combat).

Then at the start of my assault phase I choose plus one armour save.

Rinse and repeat.

Yes it does cost some points, but I have now in effect got a 2+ armour save on my flyrant. Of course it does nothing for the grounded test, but ....

Of course if you're being meltad or lascannoned it doesn't make a difference, but those pesky sternguard vengeance rounds won't get past your armour.

Nope sorry.  Read it again, it only lasts for that phase which means you can never ever get a 2+ against shooting ever.  Some of the rage and wtfness against this coded is justified.
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Offline Balkar

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Re: So, we got a new codex
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2014, 02:57:04 PM »
I don't have the codex in front of me but I thought it said you just can't take it two turns in a row, but the unit can use it multiple times in one game.

Offline Dangerousdave0042

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Re: So, we got a new codex
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2014, 07:22:58 AM »
Oh yes. I mis-read that bit. Hmmm. A bit crap then and not really worth the points me thinks.

Maybe worth it on a Tyranid Prime that's tooled up for cc with a cc squad of Warriors, but otherwise I don't think it's worth it for a MC that has the smash USR anyway.
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Offline Halollet

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Re: So, we got a new codex
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2014, 03:33:02 PM »
Had a thought....

If you filled your list with Harpies, Biovores, and Tervigons then you could have a list dedicated to making new nids. 

4 Tervigons, 60 termagants, 3 harpies with Heavy Venoms, and 9 biovores is 1800 points.

1st turn you make 12d3 sporemines (or about that many explosions) and 12d6 termagants.

I find this interesting.  How about you?

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Offline Travellar

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Re: So, we got a new codex
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2014, 10:59:44 PM »
@someone,
no, you cannot give a Carnifex (or anything else) double cannons, check the notes.

I really want to like this codex, but I've been feeling the same thing that was mentioned on page 1 of this thread, where I'm feeling ripped off to have paid ~$50 for this book.  Yes, some of the points values got tweaked, and I can't honestly say I'm sad to see Ymgarls gone.  But between the 50% jump in points cost on Warrior Primes, and the loss of Mysetic spores, a whole lot of tactical options just went up in smoke.

Griping aside, I feel a moral obligation to add something constructive to this thread.
+ Biovores which miss... don't.
    Spore mines placed by a Biovore miss are not arriving from reserve, so, as far as tonight's opponent and I can tell, get to charge immediately after having missed their target.

+ Psychic powers aren't bad.
    Yeah, gone are the days of the Tervigon choosing the best of three different powers, and gone are the days of Blink-a-thropes gating into enemy backfields to slag tanks.  but at least everything on our psychic power list now seems useful, and at least Zoans are guaruntied to get thier signature power.

* I view the Haurospex as the ultimate terror weapon.  If it reaches the enemy line and starts charging things, it is going to be an extrodinarily difficult model for your opponent to get rid of.  Splurge on the regen, and that jumps to nigh-impossible. (though I'd advise forgetting about the claws altogether)  Take two to make sure this happens, or just one to give the rest of your force a pass from enemy fire for a while.

* Venomthropes
     At first glance, they seem nerfed in that they only give shroud to the MODELS in 6" of them, but the shroud rule itself confers this benefit to every other model in the unit.  Either way, you need more than one if you want them to stay on the field.  It's nigh impossible to convince a determined opponent that they don't have a shot because the line of sight through the ruins, over the termagants, and between the Tyrant's legs just doesn't exist.  In fact, I think I can remember one time convincing anyone they didn't have any shot they wanted since 6th ed came out.

+ Carnifex
     The screaming ball of hate that is three carnies charging across the table got a lot more affordable, and with the (much nicer) Living battering ram rule, getting in front of them is unlikely to be covered by one's life insurance.
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Offline Halollet

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Re: So, we got a new codex
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2014, 12:46:36 AM »
Definatly good to start focusing on the positives.  The Exocrine seems really scary to me.  When I play my GKs against one, that's my first target for sure!

However;

* I view the Haurospex as the ultimate terror weapon.  If it reaches the enemy line and starts charging things, it is going to be an extrodinarily difficult model for your opponent to get rid of.  Splurge on the regen, and that jumps to nigh-impossible. (though I'd advise forgetting about the claws altogether)  Take two to make sure this happens, or just one to give the rest of your force a pass from enemy fire for a while.

I really really really want to like the Haruspex, I really do.  But even with its annoying 'ha ha you can't kill me' It still only has 3 attacks at guardsman's WS.  It can get tarpitted by anything really unless you have other CC nids with you.

being in the elite section has its benefits because its not competing on that front against carnifexes which hit so much harder!

It looks so much more dangerous then it actually is.

And why doesn't it have flesh hooks? It has a mouth full of fleshy hooks!  Aaargh!
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Offline Travellar

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Re: So, we got a new codex
« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2014, 01:10:39 PM »
Read it's special rules under "Feeder Organisms", it gets more attacks on the charge.  plus the attack for charging, and hammer of wrath.  A tail biomorph can push that up a bit too.

Also, when I refer to it as a terror weapon, what I really mean is something that will either draw an inordinate amount of attention to itself or else make hash of the enemy battleplan.  I think the Haurospex can do both.
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