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Offline eldarforlife

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LOTR - sbg
« on: December 24, 2013, 06:44:23 AM »
Lord of the rings strategy battle game is where i started, with the release of the hobbit i thought i would see more people playing but this isnt the case, the hobbit and lotr are two different games but the same systems, it is a shame that more people arent playing sbg, i would very much like to see a large sbg game instead of small wotr.
this is an open question but why dont you folks like the world of middle earth? and if you do then please tell the other why it's such a great game to play, newbie or veteran - Ander

Offline Locarno

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Re: LOTR - sbg
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2013, 09:07:26 AM »
I fear it's just an "it isn't because it isn't". The game is simple and really, really good fun, and I'd recommend it to anyone. Hobbit is doubly good because they tweaked the core rules to reign in some of the more abusable abilities like the ringwraith spells, and to give monsters a better chance of killing people.

You don't need a big force to have fun games, and once you get into it there's more strategy than you think.

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Offline eldarforlife

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Re: LOTR - sbg
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2013, 09:15:02 AM »
the only shame is in the change for volley fire but you are right, 1 HQ and a few standard models makes for a great game

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: LOTR - sbg
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2013, 09:26:16 AM »
The problem with LotR is that is isn't Warhammer. For 20 years, people collected fantasy miniatures for a different game, released by the same company.

From what I've seen, LotR didn't really have anything other than "skirmish" rules that WFB didn't already have... and Warhammer already has a much larger scope of races and player base.

I started my GW hobby with WFB Orcs and Goblins, before more or less leaving the Fantasy setting for 40k, because I enjoyed that game much more. If I wanted to play in a fantasy setting, my first choice would be to return to Warhammer, for a much better selection of models and a better ruleset, from what I recall and have heard.

In 20 years, I've seen GW start and abandon tons of "small scale" games. Inquisitor, Blood Bowl, Epic, Warmaster, That game with boats, Space Hulk, Hero Quest, the rune-quest type game?. LotR always felt like it would be one of those games, and I think they only reason it hasn't been abandoned is that there's probably some kind of contract for film support.

If I wanted to play a well supported fantasy game with the "best" following, I'd play Warhammer. If I wanted to play a good tabletop wargame, I'd play 40k, which I do. It also happens that in London, ON, there's probably a 8 to 1 ratio of 40k to WFB, according to the GW guys. They wouldn't even guess at the ratio to LotR players, but they have stories of "the last time I sold a box of those", whereas several Dark Vengeance boxes are sold each week.

My guess is that LotR tends to be fueled by fans of the series, that buy the models and those models happen to have a game attached that they can play when they aren't adoring their favourite characters on a shelf. ;)

Offline eldarforlife

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Re: LOTR - sbg
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2013, 09:41:43 AM »
that is a real shame, i shall admit i found sbg because of my love for the books and films originally but it is such a great game, i would more then recommend it to anyone looking for a new system but you are right that it lacks the funding that 40k and Warhammer have got

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: LOTR - sbg
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2013, 09:54:44 AM »
Well, more than anything, it's the lack of following that keeps it from gaining more following. It's hard enough to find WFB players. The only person I know that has LotR minis is my neighbour [? Fo' Real?] and he bought them because he likes the books. I know he's played against his friends a handful of times, but he mostly likes the minis and enjoys painting them.

He doesn't know the rules well enough to teach, and I'm not overly interested in starting another army to learn the rules myself... which is a real shame. I mean, how many tabletop wargamers have neighbours with the same hobby?!?

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Re: LOTR - sbg
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2013, 12:26:21 PM »
In 20 years, I've seen GW start and abandon tons of "small scale" games. Inquisitor, Blood Bowl, Epic, Warmaster, That game with boats, Space Hulk, Hero Quest, the rune-quest type game?. LotR always felt like it would be one of those games, and I think they only reason it hasn't been abandoned is that there's probably some kind of contract for film support.

The game with boats, as you put it ;), was Man O'War, and I think that the other game you're referring to is either Warhammer Quest or Talisman.  You might also want to reconsider placing Epic in that list as, for many years, it was GW's third core game with a relatively large player base, and was regularly featured in White Dwarf.

Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit effectively took over that third core game slot which Epic previously occupied.  I've seen some people playing it at Warhammer World in the past, but it has always been outnumbered by those there playing 40K or Warhammer.  I don't think that it's necessarily unpopular, but given that wargaming is an expensive hobby, I doubt that you're going to find people branching out into Lord of the Rings if they're already devoting substantial amounts of time and money to Fantasy or 40K.

From my own perspective, I've no desire to get into it.  If I want to play a skirmish type game, I can just play Advanced Heroquest or Heroquest, or use rules which GW haven't designed, but using their figures.  There are also plenty of other more streamlined free rules out there which make for great alternatives, such as Kings of War, and I'd rather play those using my existing figures than get into anything new.
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Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: LOTR - sbg
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2013, 01:45:22 PM »
The game with boats, as you put it ;), was Man O'War, and I think that the other game you're referring to is either Warhammer Quest or Talisman. 

LOL! I actually meant the other boat game, "Dreadfleet". I'd forgotten about Man'o'War. :D I was indeed talking about Talisman.

And a mighty +1 to the idea of using my existing minis to play the "sub games", like Necromunda. I could shell out for minis, or I could just play with minis I have and proxy them to fit.

The only exception was Blood Bowl, which came with a box full of minis and at the time you could buy an "army" for $40. :) You could still do the same thing, for the most part, by buying a reasonable box of Warhammer minis and cutting off the weapons.

Offline eldarforlife

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Re: LOTR - sbg
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2013, 03:05:59 PM »
so having seen an end to blood bowl and dreedfleet, among others, will we see an eventual end to LOTR? or is there something different about it that means its lasted up till now?

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: LOTR - sbg
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2013, 04:24:03 PM »
At my GW, it was dead product until the recent releases of the Hobbit movies. They don't even have a demonstration set, and they have a decent sized store for our area.

I wasn't kidding when I said that I think the only reason it exists is due to some kind of contract related to the movies.

That said, it requires next to no support as "hobbyist" models - as opposed to "gaming" models - they can be kept in short supply, and reordered as needed. Collectors generally don't mind waiting for product, if they want it. I also think it's kind of a leader to get people into 40k, of all things.

The inverse reasoning behind WFB players not wanting to buy into LotR would keep LotR players from buying into WFB... but they see people playing 40k and they're like, "Hey, lots of people play this game, and it's way better than the crap rules for LotR!"*

* I'm just having a bit of fun at the LotR people's expense. I don't know the rules at all, so my jibe is just in fun. The rules might be awesome... but I have a feeling they aren't. ;) *

Offline eldarforlife

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Re: LOTR - sbg
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2013, 04:51:56 PM »
well the rules are skirmish and im sure there are better skirmish games around, but by no means is it a bad game, maybe just needs some better structure and funding which GW is clearly not willing to do

Offline angel of death 007

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Re: LOTR - sbg
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2013, 08:27:53 AM »
I can say that I purchased some of the lord of the rings boxed sets when they originally came out due to liking the movie.  But aside from that I never did anything with it.  I skimmed the rule book a few times but that was it.

At my LGS they don't carry any of the LOTR stuff.  I think they pretty much stopped carrying fantasy stuff as well.  We have no players for it and there is a lot of competition currently in the gaming world.   

At our LGS it is pretty much all 40k, followed by MtG, then you have the regular Battletech group, and a small warmahordes group as well as some RPG groups.

Many of those just getting into table top gaming seem to flock toward 40k.  It just so happens that last week I went to the other coast to drop my step son off at the airport.  And rather then having it be a 2 hour trip each way just to drop him off I stopped at the GW store in Ft. Lauderdale (as up until them there were no actual GW stores in FL they were all Rogue Traders).  So I had about a 2 hour conversation with the employee there.  They had the Hobbit stuff painted up and that there.  He said the majority of players who come in play 40k.  He said he hardly ever sees any fantasy people playing.  Most people I think that collect fantasy stuff do so because they like the models.  And fantasy does have some of the best models ever. 

I think the Hobbit was geared more toward a certain Niche much like LOTR and once the Hobbit movie series is over GW will probably abandon all that is LOTR or Hobbit related.  As far as skirmish games go I think many people are gearing themself toward the steampunk kinda game systems like warmahordes and Malifaux, not to mention there are a lot of other new games coming out they are putting on Kickstarter. 

Overall rules wise though one of the best systems I feel that GW did recently is Fantasy.  40k IMHO tried to adopt too many of fantasies rules for 6th edition. 

I don't mean to disappoint but I think LOTR and the Hobbit are just a shooting star which will soon pass or burn out.  Then they will stop providing support like many of their other forgotten projects.  At the end of the day they are a business which is very much governed by the mighty $ 

Offline starstrider

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Re: LOTR - sbg
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2013, 10:40:06 PM »
Back when the lotr/hobbit stuff first came out and I was a much more active player I was always slightly embittered about it taking up store tables and white dwarf space, while being (imo) a fairly transparent attempt to ultimately expand the fantasy/40k user base by drawing in people from movies that had suddenly drawn mainstream success. Not to say this didn't really make sense from GW's perspective, and they had been becoming a more mainsteam company present in all sorts of US malls for some time by then, but it still rubbed me the wrong way as a tasteless attempt to draw in people.

I've never heard anything bad about the rules really. The few people I knew who did play it seemed to enjoy it. But they never really got chances to play.

It's not that I don't like Tolkein or Middle Earth or anything. I'm a fan. I enjoyed the lotr movies (hobbit movies not so much), and read both set of books repeatedly back when i was a kid in middle school. It's just that - as has been pointed out - I had spent several hundreds of dollars and years getting my fantasy wargaming on in another mythical universe of GW's creation. The urge to spend money on another one wasn't there at all. Now I'm older and have a bit more money to spend, but I have less space than ever to keep little toy soldiers lying around my house. So somethings just won't be able to make the cut, and I'd much rather keep my existing armies than drop them to start a new one.

And finally, yeah. GW is atrocious at maintaining support for their non main-line games. The LOTR/Hobbit stuff must be tied up in some contractual strings, because I'm shocked it's still around at all. I wouldn't be surprised if they minimize it heavily a while after the final hobbit movie gets played out. It's a pity really, because I always wanted to get into BFG and/or Man O War a bit. And I never had a chance to play epic, but that seemed cool too (certainly a much better place for everyone's titans than 40k, imo).
« Last Edit: December 25, 2013, 10:45:18 PM by starstrider »

 


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