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Author Topic: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline  (Read 30548 times)

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Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #60 on: July 6, 2015, 01:04:50 PM »
Ridiculous, yes. But he's got a point. If you want humanoid shaped tanks to shoot at each other, just ditch the humanoid and shoot tanks at each other.

Melee combat would be a more entertaining. Power claws, buzz saws, cutting torches, pile drivers sending a spike into your opponent... that would be awesome. Plus that tests the robot's reflexes, power-to-weight, and so many more things than just thickness of armour and who bought a bigger gun.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #61 on: July 6, 2015, 02:33:25 PM »
Oh, I agree! But this statement:

If you want humanoid shaped tanks to shoot at each other, just ditch the humanoid and shoot tanks at each other.

Is (1) totally true and (2) why we will never, ever actually build humanoid fighting robots. I mean, except for fun. 

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #62 on: July 6, 2015, 02:59:53 PM »
Well, never say never.  Humanoid warmachines do have some advantages over your basic tank.  The biggest one is probably mobility.  Tanks do not do well in mountain terrain, so having something that can bring the payload of a tank up a mountain by having the flexibility of a bipedal mount is probably something the military will look into.

The issue right now is that our level of technology is limits the production of mechs...
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #63 on: July 6, 2015, 03:04:44 PM »
Well, never say never.  Humanoid warmachines do have some advantages over your basic tank.  The biggest one is probably mobility.  Tanks do not do well in mountain terrain, so having something that can bring the payload of a tank up a mountain by having the flexibility of a bipedal mount is probably something the military will look into.

The technology and equipment needed to keep it from falling down will always trump the advantages. I mean, hell, you can just make yourself a better armored helicopter or something. Walking upright is such a pain in the ass. There's a very good reason so few animals in nature do it.

Maybe if they made them quadrapedal--maybe then. I still think the technology to get a tank to do better in rough terrain would be a much smaller challenge than the technology needed to make it walk around on legs.
« Last Edit: July 6, 2015, 03:32:01 PM by Wyddr »

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #64 on: July 6, 2015, 03:22:37 PM »
Also, the idea is to be low to the ground for added concealment. Having a walker is just another way of putting a giant "please shoot me" sign on your war machine. Physics will still screw you though, ground pressure for a walker soon gets to be highly disadvantages for a war machine. As we saw in WW II, even tanks have serious scale up issues soon enough.
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Offline Grizzlykin

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #65 on: July 6, 2015, 03:59:33 PM »
let us dream that some day we have something that will work on two feet or more and be more efficient than a tank :)  i don't think it's going to happen anytime soon but my manga/mecha fan heart is telling me he want to see those in live army ^^
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Offline Sir_Godspeed

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #66 on: July 7, 2015, 07:56:48 PM »
And then an infantryman with a armour piercing weapon shoots a leg joint and ruins the entire beslubbering thing.

Granted, that's already a problem with wheels and treads, but at least the consequence there is "merely" immobility, and not falling over.

There is *one* advantage I could imagine, and that is as a kind of rapid, lightly armoured heavy weapons platform, acting in support of infantry and mech-inf units. And then there's the BigDog robot from DARPA, which I think looks promising, sure, it's just an automated pack mule, but honestly that is probably a lot more useful than giant robots constantly threatening to trip over due to ground pressure, exposed joints, complex (and thus error-prone) machinery and a high center of gravity.

I mean, the jerry-can revolutionized warfare, the Panzer VII Maus didn't.

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #67 on: July 7, 2015, 08:43:06 PM »
But it may be more feasible to surround those vulnerable joints with proper armouring.

Anyways, the Japanese have accepted the challenge!  So giant robot deathmatch is on!
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #68 on: July 7, 2015, 11:32:42 PM »
More armour, less mobility, more logistical cost to run. Which is why we should all agree on Flying Death Drones.
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #69 on: July 7, 2015, 11:49:23 PM »
Still more mobile than a tank.

Hey, you know what... stop beslubbering with my dreams of one day seeing a legitimate mech!
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
Well I always liked the globals...
I knew I had fans!!!

Quote
"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #70 on: July 8, 2015, 12:28:39 AM »
Still more mobile than a tank.

Well, no actually. Take a 40 tonne tank and compare it to a 40 tonne walker. The tank will be far more nimble. The Russians do beslubbering armoured ballet with theirs. It's physics and physics is a son of a be-atch.

Hey, you know what... stop beslubbering with my dreams of one day seeing a legitimate mech!

You'll get nothing and like it or you'll get twice as much nothing tomorrow. Sir_Godspeed's armour frames and cyberbots are far more interesting and likely. Also damn cool to watch in the videos.
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Offline Grizzlykin

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #71 on: July 8, 2015, 05:16:35 AM »
do you not get the point of a dream perhaps >< it's a dream it's perfectly fine to like it hate it want it to happened without any real reason.

I expect that some day our ammunition will be take so far that the tank armor won't be of any use anymore, that's where i think walker might become an alternative because since anyway if you are it you go down, let's at least try to avoid the bullet before it hits you.

And man who needs a reason to see a giant robot on the battlefield, just for the coolneess is good enought.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #72 on: July 8, 2015, 09:19:22 AM »
Oh, yes--I think *modestly sized* walkers are possible. Armored frames, as Goodspeed suggests, or powered armor (like in District 9 or Avatar). Much bigger than that? No way.

I'm very sorry, GML. I really am. They *would* be cool.

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #73 on: July 8, 2015, 10:51:44 AM »
I expect that some day our ammunition will be take so far that the tank armor won't be of any use anymore, that's where i think walker might become an alternative because since anyway if you are it you go down, let's at least try to avoid the bullet before it hits you.

Armour vs ammunition have been going at it for thousands of years. I doubt it'll stop anytime soon.

Defence goes like this:
Don't get seen.
Don't get hit.
Don't get hurt.
Don't stay dead.

Large walkers are just *very* obvious. John Ringo, before he went full crazy town, had a decent set of novels where he explained why mostly man sized powered armour was successful while other designs weren't and basically it comes down to not being obvious on the battlefield. Camouflage (electronic as well as material) only goes so far when you're going stomp stomp stomp about the place.  His powered armour was still heavy enough to fall through floors as well if they didn't play close attention to what they were doing.

Which always made BattleTech so much fun. "I *can't* hit him sir! He's metres away!"   ;)
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Offline Sir_Godspeed

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #74 on: July 8, 2015, 03:02:59 PM »
I should add that while I don't think giant mechs will work in real life, I love them in fiction - even the more realistic type.

Keep that dream alive. :D

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #75 on: July 8, 2015, 03:43:26 PM »
I still believe that part of the belief that mechs won't work is because of our current technology limits the idea.

75 years ago, people thought it wouldn't be possible for planes for go faster than the speed of sound.
120 years ago, people thought man would never fly.
150 years ago, shoulder mounted automatic weapons were not considered possible.
250 years ago, sailing a ship absent sails was thought to be impossible.

Technology advances, and what we currently believe is impossible may very well be the direction the future is headed.  Hell, the fact that people are building these machines now only goes to show that there is interest in making them viable.  As long as people continue to work on improving the designs, I think it is quite possible that we see a design that actually works in the next 50 years.
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
Well I always liked the globals...
I knew I had fans!!!

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"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline Sir_Godspeed

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #76 on: July 8, 2015, 04:13:14 PM »
Granted, but they also believed that people could shapeshift, communicate with the dead and transform lead into gold easily, and achieve eternal life, so by the same logic a lot of what we believe might be possible might flat out be impossible or very hard.

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #77 on: July 8, 2015, 05:29:38 PM »
Also, impossible to build is an entirely separate argument than saying they'd be tactically useless or redundant.  :)
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You have to love the smell of science in the morning. It smells of learning.... or perhaps a gas leak.

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #78 on: July 8, 2015, 07:53:55 PM »
Also, impossible to build is an entirely separate argument than saying they'd be tactically useless or redundant.  :)
I'm just saying that there is potential for it to work, it is just beyond our understanding as of this moment.  And let's be honest, none of us are experts in the field of future military matters :P

Granted, but they also believed that people could shapeshift, communicate with the dead and transform lead into gold easily, and achieve eternal life, so by the same logic a lot of what we believe might be possible might flat out be impossible or very hard.
True, but people are working on designing machines that demonstrate the idea is feasible.  Unlike the stuff you mentioned which was all found to not be possible, there is a hint of possibility here.
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
Well I always liked the globals...
I knew I had fans!!!

Quote
"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #79 on: July 8, 2015, 10:22:49 PM »
Every time you have these feelings I prescribe two sober viewings of Robot Jox. The feelings will soon pass. Side effects include: regret, sadness, horror, blood pressure increases, potential murder, and erectile dysfunction.
Quote from: @TracyAuGoGO
Tact is for people who are too slow witted to be sarcastic.
Drink
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If you can't make fun of something, it's probably not worth taking seriously.

You have to love the smell of science in the morning. It smells of learning.... or perhaps a gas leak.

 


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