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Author Topic: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline  (Read 39769 times)

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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #260 on: June 24, 2020, 08:43:39 AM »
Personally I don't think the tone of the trailer matches the imagery I have formed in my head when reading the books.

That's honestly a good thing. Translating the series as-written would be spectacularly boring, as the whole thing is just a series of scenes with two or three dudes in a room sipping Scotch and talking about the sweeps of history and politics. Pretty dull theatre.

I think it looks like something actually out of the distant future (something the books lacked a lot of) and they seem to have spared no expense. There's no way I'm getting an AppleTV subscription just for this show, but yeah--good for them. I hope it's good. 

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #261 on: June 24, 2020, 09:37:20 AM »
If you are a Science Fiction fan I am sure you will find this news 'cool'

Asimov's Foundation trilogy is coming to TV. Have a look at the Trailer.

Personally I don't think the tone of the trailer matches the imagery I have formed in my head when reading the books.
Thankfully, my girlfriend has an Apple+ subscription.  I would be willing to pay for the service, anyways, to see this story come to life.  The Foundation has always been my favourite Sci-Fi series.

I'm eager to get a closer look at this interpretation of Asimov's work.  Also have to keep in mind that the general idea of what the distant future will look like has evolved over the years, so they have to adjust what the mental imagery from 70 years ago.

My question is are they going to stay true to the books like they (more or less) did with Game of Thrones?  If they do, are they stopping at just the trilogy (Second Foundation), or including the later books as well (Foundation's Edge / Foundation and Earth)?  Or is this just going to be something that is based around the idea of the books?
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Offline Alienscar

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #262 on: June 24, 2020, 11:31:04 AM »
Personally I don't think the tone of the trailer matches the imagery I have formed in my head when reading the books.

I think it looks like something actually out of the distant future (something the books lacked a lot of) and they seem to have spared no expense. There's no way I'm getting an AppleTV subscription just for this show, but yeah--good for them. I hope it's good.
Well
The books covered the far future fairly well I would say. Hyper-video, three-dimensional communication, Jump travel, flying taxis, a 75,000,000 square mile city covering an entire planet to name a few.

Also have to keep in mind that the general idea of what the distant future will look like has evolved over the years, so they have to adjust what the mental imagery from 70 years ago.

I am happy with the visuals, it is the tone of the trailer that seems at odds with my mental imagery. The tone of the trailer is quite bleak and Hari Seldon comes across as business like and 'hard'. The books, that I finished rereading at the end of last year, had a more upbeat feel.

My question is are they going to stay true to the books like they (more or less) did with Game of Thrones?  If they do, are they stopping at just the trilogy (Second Foundation), or including the later books as well (Foundation's Edge / Foundation and Earth)?  Or is this just going to be something that is based around the idea of the books?

That is a good question and as per Wyddr's comment I suppose I would have to guess that the series will be based on the idea of the books.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2020, 06:55:12 AM by Alienscar »
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Offline Lachdonin

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #263 on: June 24, 2020, 06:24:56 PM »
The books, that I finished rereading at the end of last year, had a more upbeat feel.

In their entirety, sure. It's a very positive community building, hope for the future in the face of adversity sort of story. But... if you're approaching it from the ground without the context of how it ends, the premise is horrifying. The total collapse of galactic civilization and a thousand year dark age?

I think the tone of the trailer pretty well captures the way most people would feel with that information. Like, look at the world right now. Just the thought of that sort of systemic collapse fills people with dread, but if someone, a very well respected expert, told you it was a certainty? I think the 'Impending Apocalypse' vibe would be totally appropriate.

I'm definitely on board with giving it a shot, in any case. Between Foundation, and the new Dune, my Sci-Fi boner has been strong these last few weeks.
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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #264 on: June 24, 2020, 07:15:02 PM »
I think the dark tone in the trailer is a contemporary trend thing. BWAAAAHP is basically a scifi trailer cliche since like 2010, but it keeps being used.

I love the set design, it is reminiscent of the 70s cover art, with its sleek high-concept feel to it, and that's definitely what I wanted from a Foundation series (aesthetics alone does a lot for me, I'm somewhat ashamed to admit).

"Connecting humanity through technology... that's definitely something Apple is about, and it's something Asimov was promoting."
Ugh, that corporate cringe. Very awkwardly shoehorned in.

Got a weirdly lot of downvotes... Does anyone know why? Is it because it's Apple behind it? Some scifi grognards not liking the direction? Or is it because it's got women and brown people in it? (The latter would sadly not surprise me).

Offline Blazinghand

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #265 on: June 24, 2020, 11:09:46 PM »
As a young 'un, I really liked Foundation, because of its idealism. I liked the idea that in the face of the end of a civilization and the fall of an empire, hope could still be had. I think I even more liked the idea that society and the great arc of history could on some level be understood and analyzed, and that, if we were smart, we could shape events to do better in the future. Part of why I pursued an economics minor in college was that it felt like that was the closest we could get to Asimov's dream.
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Offline Alienscar

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #266 on: June 25, 2020, 08:41:55 AM »
The books, that I finished rereading at the end of last year, had a more upbeat feel.

In their entirety, sure. It's a very positive community building, hope for the future in the face of adversity sort of story.

Not just in their entirety, the first book in particular has a very upbeat vibe.

I think the tone of the trailer pretty well captures the way most people would feel with that information. Like, look at the world right now. Just the thought of that sort of systemic collapse fills people with dread, but if someone, a very well respected expert, told you it was a certainty? I think the 'Impending Apocalypse' vibe would be totally appropriate.

Except that isn't what happens in Foundation. The 'truth' of the empire's collapse is hidden from the masses and in exchange for his life and silence Seldon is given the planet Terminus.

Also Seldon wasn't a well respected expert other than amongst his peers.

I love the set design, it is reminiscent of the 70s cover art, with its sleek high-concept feel to it, and that's definitely what I wanted from a Foundation series (aesthetics alone does a lot for me, I'm somewhat ashamed to admit).

Funnily enough there appears to be a lot of people lamenting the fact that the look of the trailer isn't reminiscent of Chris Foss' art work.

I think I even more liked the idea that society and the great arc of history could on some level be understood and analyzed, and that, if we were smart, we could shape events to do better in the future.

For me this is the biggest 'hook' of the Foundation. Psychohistory is so believable that it is hard to understand why it hasn't become a real science. It is easy to believe that the behaviour of the human masses and their reaction to social and economic stimuli can be mathematically predicted.

Edit:

I read this a while ago and have just managed to find it it again.

To me cliodynamics reads very much like a fledgling Psychohistory
« Last Edit: June 25, 2020, 01:57:43 PM by Alienscar »
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #267 on: June 25, 2020, 12:40:23 PM »
They are very likely going to drag the books out as long as they can manage. I would suspect the whole first season to only focus on what happens on Trantor (The Psychohistorians part of the first book), hence the bleak feeling. Hope isn't there yet.

As for my "not futuristic enough" comment, the "future" of the books is basically 1950s America with scifi technology bolted on. They still use paper newspapers. They still use metallic currency (even though they barely have metal). They smoke cigars (which might come from Vega, but are really just cigars). They use nuclear fission to power everything. Men wear suits, women wear dresses. One guy takes a shower with water in his spaceship. Another guy has a calculator (like, a basic scientific calculator) on his hip and challenges another guy to do math in his head. The people are "amazed" by 3-dimensional images appearing from nowhere in a theatre (HOW IS IT POSSIBLE!?). Every dude has a secretary who doesn't get to speak. 

It *isn't* the future in any real meaningful setting sense. They've got gadgets and gizmos and the mega-cities, but it's transparently the postwar US. Asimov barely bothers to hide it because his purpose in those books is not (and never was) to imagine the future. His purpose in those books is to show American postwar optimism, capitalism, and democracy as the positive, inevitable destiny of history. The USA is the Foundation, the crumbling Galactic Empire is postwar Europe, and all the barbarous kingdoms are all the third world nations the USA has to come in and teach about democracy and advanced technology.

Retelling that story as written is not only unspeakably tone-deaf to the current state of the world, but also extremely dated and essentially irrelevant. So, yeah, AppleTV will probably change it somehow, hopefully for the better.   
« Last Edit: June 25, 2020, 12:41:48 PM by Wyddr »

Offline Sir_Godspeed

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #268 on: June 26, 2020, 09:28:42 PM »
It is easy to believe that the behaviour of the human masses and their reaction to social and economic stimuli can be mathematically predicted.

Well, easy to believe unless you've looked at the past of social science. There've been several tries to find "social laws", but what you end up with, in the best case scenario, are statistical probabilities of varying degrees of predictive usefulness. Economics is perhaps the most mathematical, and even they tend to grossly exaggerate the certainty of their predictions. Other disciplines that have grown out of similar attempts is demographical projections, urban planning, and so on.

Computing power increases, of course, but that's not really the bottleneck, the bottleneck is methodological rigour. Data retrieval, avoiding feedback (self-fulfilling prophecies), spuriousness, ethics, etc.

The allure of nomothetic (law-seeking) social science will always be there, because we tend to view natural science (and perhaps physics in particular - or rather mathematics in its pure form, perhaps) as the ultimate "pinnacle" of the scientific endeavor. The problem is that there are some serious issues when the waking self attempts to study the waking self reflexively yey objectively. 

tl;dr: it's an intriguing concept, but there are some serious, profound problems with it that goes beyond "we need more complex models".

Offline Alienscar

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #269 on: July 6, 2020, 06:52:49 AM »
The potential for a flying car in our lifetime, surely that is cool!

Check out this link to Urban Aeronautics: CityHawk and see what you think.
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #270 on: July 6, 2020, 09:33:21 AM »
I'm glad they're not looking at making it available for public usage just yet.  I don't trust other people in conventional cars that only move in two axis.  There's no way I would trust Joe 6-pack with a third axis of movement!
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #271 on: July 6, 2020, 09:46:04 AM »
To make it even remotely safe for widespread use, it would need to be equipped with some kind of failsafe system in case of engine failure. I have no idea what that would be, but without it, you have one failed engine rotor crashing into three other flying cars then spiraling into half a city block. No thank you. 

Offline Sir_Godspeed

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #272 on: July 6, 2020, 01:42:26 PM »
I'm glad they're not looking at making it available for public usage just yet.  I don't trust other people in conventional cars that only move in two axis.  There's no way I would trust Joe 6-pack with a third axis of movement!

IMHO, "flying cars" (or just small personal helicopters, basically) won't become common to the public until after self-driving is a safe and comprehensive, which in itself is a long ways off.

Offline Alienscar

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #273 on: July 7, 2020, 04:40:12 AM »
I'm glad they're not looking at making it available for public usage just yet.  I don't trust other people in conventional cars that only move in two axis.  There's no way I would trust Joe 6-pack with a third axis of movement!

Haha totally agree with you GML.

To make it even remotely safe for widespread use, it would need to be equipped with some kind of failsafe system in case of engine failure. I have no idea what that would be, but without it, you have one failed engine rotor crashing into three other flying cars then spiraling into half a city block. No thank you. 

When it comes to flying vehicles I think safety is a given. The FAA, CAA and EASA will make sure that safety is a priority.

Similar vehicles to the CityHawk use vehicle recovery ballistic parachutes.

Other than scale I don't see that much more of a risk between the CityHawk and all the other personsl flying machines that already exist. Microlights, powered paragliders, hang gliders and powered parachutes to name a few. They all have risks involved.

I get what you are on about though. When it comes to flying in inhabited areas safety becomes paramount.

IMHO, "flying cars" (or just small personal helicopters, basically) won't become common to the public until after self-driving is a safe and comprehensive, which in itself is a long ways off.

Whilst the idea of a personal flying car is a sci-fi trope in reality I doubt it will ever be the case that a flying car will be as ubiquitous as a normal car. For one thing the cost and time of a pilots licence is beyond most people.

As the CityHawk article says the aim is for an Uber type vehicle and I guess this will be the future of flying cars.

I really can't imagine millions of personal flying cars in the air.
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Offline Looshkin

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #274 on: July 7, 2020, 06:14:31 AM »
When it comes to flying vehicles I think safety is a given. The FAA, CAA and EASA will make sure that safety is a priority.

Similar vehicles to the CityHawk use vehicle recovery ballistic parachutes.

Other than scale I don't see that much more of a risk between the CityHawk and all the other personsl flying machines that already exist. Microlights, powered paragliders, hang gliders and powered parachutes to name a few. They all have risks involved.

So, until fully automated vehicles are a thing, flying cars should never happen. Never. Not in a million years.

As a military pilot that spent the previous 9 years of his life flying in the low level environment, I can't begin to tell you how much fear I'd have of Joe Public smashing around in flying cars.

Microlights/Paragliders etc are all required to operate in specific areas from which they mustn't stray; however they very much do stray and I've had a few near misses with them.

On top of that, I've seen how the public act with drones; again, whilst most fly responsibly, many do not. This causes massive potential danger to any light or military aviation...let alone the risk to other flying car users.

So yeah...I know we want the Sci Fi utopia we've seen in games and cinema; we're a long way from being there technologically and IMHO, even further away from being ready as far as personal responsibility is concerned.
« Last Edit: July 7, 2020, 07:02:28 AM by Looshkin »
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Offline Alienscar

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #275 on: July 7, 2020, 07:41:42 AM »
As a military pilot that spent the previous 9 years of his life flying in the low level environment, I can't begin to tell you how much fear I'd have of Joe Public smashing around in flying cars.

Microlights/Paragliders etc are all required to operate in specific areas from which they mustn't stray; however they very much do stray and I've had a few near misses with them.

On top of that, I've seen how the public act with drones; again, whilst most fly responsibly, many do not. This causes massive potential danger to any light or military aviation...let alone the risk to other flying car users.

So yeah...I know we want the Sci Fi utopia we've seen in games and cinema; we're a long way from being there technologically and IMHO, even further away from being ready as far as personal responsibility is concerned.

That's the thing though Looshkin, I don't believe it will ever 'Joe public' that will be piloting any imagined flying cars. It will always be licensed piolts. So just as pilots don't go smashing about in light aircraft or personal flying machines I doubt the piolts of flying cars would either.

As I said the biggest hurdle faced by flying cars is the legislation that will allow them to fly in inhabited areas.
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Offline Looshkin

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #276 on: July 7, 2020, 10:49:26 AM »

That's the thing though Looshkin, I don't believe it will ever 'Joe public' that will be piloting any imagined flying cars. It will always be licensed piolts. So just as pilots don't go smashing about in light aircraft or personal flying machines I doubt the piolts of flying cars would either.

As I said the biggest hurdle faced by flying cars is the legislation that will allow them to fly in inhabited areas.

If you're correct, then it's less of an issue. There is a reason that pilot training, both civil and military, is one of the most demanding and scrutinised training systems around. With that, though, if it were to be licensed pilots only, I just can't see where the customer base would be. The same as the helicopter market currently?

If it were licensed pilots only, I can see safety systems being the biggest hurdle...but given the cost to train as a pilot, it would only be niche consumers with a demand for a flying car service, or the very wealthy who can afford what would be expensive training and very expensive hardware.

In short...leave it until until it can fly itself and do so safely with no additional risk to life than what a helicopter currently provides.
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Offline Alienscar

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #277 on: July 8, 2020, 06:41:40 AM »
With that, though, if it were to be licensed pilots only, I just can't see where the customer base would be. The same as the helicopter market currently?

If it were licensed pilots only, I can see safety systems being the biggest hurdle...but given the cost to train as a pilot, it would only be niche consumers with a demand for a flying car service, or the very wealthy who can afford what would be expensive training and very expensive hardware.

In short...leave it until until it can fly itself and do so safely with no additional risk to life than what a helicopter currently provides.

I suppose it all depends on what you consider to be expensive. Most of the existing flying vehicles, other than drones and models, require some form of formal training and most require a licence. Even a microlight pilot has to obtain a licence and complete thirty hours of flight training. Would you consider a microlight owner wealthy?

In many ways self-flying aircraft already exist as most of Airbus' & Boeing's aircraft can already take off, cruise and land automatically.

As for the customer base even the makers of the CityHawk don't see it as anything more than just a taxi and a vehicle for the emergency services.

I don't know about you, but I can't really imagine a future where everyone owns their own flying cars. Our airspace just couldn't cope with that kind of volume.
« Last Edit: July 9, 2020, 02:45:04 AM by Alienscar »
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Offline magenb

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #278 on: July 9, 2020, 07:15:48 PM »
I don't know about you, but I can't really imagine a future where everyone owns their own flying cars. Our airspace just couldn't cope with that kind of volume.

starwars, 5th element, back to the future... all basically the same concept, each "lane way" had its own altitude that effectively stacks, with areas to rise or lower into the other lanes. Traffic would flow better than we currently do with our roads. You couldn't have "traffic control" like we currently do at airports though.

But yes, despite how stupid it is to get drunk, high or sleep deprived, and try to drive/ride people still do it... even airline pilots have been caught doing those things.. so yeah it would have to be an automated system to avoid disasters..

Offline Sir_Godspeed

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Re: Cool Stuff You've Seen Outside of 40kOnline
« Reply #279 on: July 11, 2020, 12:28:41 PM »
This isn't even taking into account the frankly *stupid* amount of energy this will cost. Even with some pretty damn efficient electrical engines, they amount of energy needed to keep something afloat in air (especially something that is about as aerodynamic as a slighty rounded rock) is, uh, A LOT.

 


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