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Author Topic: 1500 and 1750 Tau vs IG  (Read 4939 times)

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Offline Shas'La robo

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1500 and 1750 Tau vs IG
« on: June 23, 2013, 07:27:05 PM »
Edit: 1750 list is in reply #11

HQ
Commander: 200
- XV8-02, Shield generator, 2 Fusion blasters, Airbursting fragmentation projector, Onager gauntlet, Puretide engram neurochip
Joins either Fusion or Missile suits and kills tanks

ELITES
Crises Team: 166
- Shas'Vre, Multi-spectrum sensor suite, Command & control node, Flamer
- Burst cannon, Plasma rifle
- Burst cannon, Plasma rifle
Anti-infantry firepower
Crises Team: 171
- 2 Fusion blasters, Flamer
- 2 Fusion blasters, Flamer
- 2 Fusion blasters, Flamer
Nuke a leman russ each turn with commander. Hopefully, if they don't I die :(
Crises Team: 171
- 2 Missile pod, Flamer
- 2 Missile pod, Flamer
- 2 Missile pod, Flamer
Standard anti-transport

TROOPS
10 Fire Warriors: 175
- Devilfish, Automated repair system
10 Fire Warriors: 175
- Devilfish, Automated repair system
10 Fire Warriors: 175
- Devilfish, Automated repair system
Provide mobile cover for crises suits if they need it, then rapid response to objectives end-game
12 Kroot: 72
Sits in reserve and outflanks to contest late game, maybe infiltrate if there is a nice forest somewhere

HEAVY SUPPORT
Hammerhead: 180
- Railgun w/ Submunition, SMS, Automated repair system, Longstrike
Anti-everything thanks to Longstrike + submunition

Total: 1485
Thinking about getting a disruption pod for the hammerhead with the remaining 15 points
« Last Edit: July 5, 2013, 07:40:23 AM by Shas'La robo »
hug cover, shoot the big ones, and cripple the fast ones. if those cant be achieved, kill em all.  8)

Offline Wyddr

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Re: 1500 Tau vs IG
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2013, 10:00:36 PM »
There are a lot of points that can be cut here. All those automated repair systems won't pay off, the Imager gauntlet isn't really worth it, and buying both a C&C node and a sensor suite for a unit only kicking out 10 shots isn't efficient. Just twin link one of their weapons and you'll get better mileage.

Offline Shas'La robo

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Re: 1500 Tau vs IG
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2013, 02:01:42 AM »
Well if you read the rules as written for automated repair system, then a roll of a 6 for the devilfish can fix the hammerhead's gun, doesn't say you must repair the same vehicle.

Onager gauntlet is just there for the lolz, hoping to punch something and laugh like a maniac! :P

Using my (admittedly lacking) skills with mathhammer, assuming 4+ cover, the unit as is should cause 7.5 wounds with no saves allowed in rapid fire range and 6.25 out of it.
Using 3x that suit type i get 3.75 in rapid fire range and 3.125 out of it. Basically half as effective against squads in cover, for a saving of 25 points.
If i twin link the burst cannons still with 4+ cover, 5 wounds in rapid fire range, 4.375 out of, still worse and saves 10 points.

This is of course assuming I'm correct, if i'm not then I'll make the change.

robo
hug cover, shoot the big ones, and cripple the fast ones. if those cant be achieved, kill em all.  8)

Offline Wyddr

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Re: 1500 Tau vs IG
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2013, 08:18:13 AM »
Well if you read the rules as written for automated repair system, then a roll of a 6 for the devilfish can fix the hammerhead's gun, doesn't say you must repair the same vehicle.

Don't do this. Don't even try it. It makes you an ass.

As for the suits, I was working under the false impression that the C&C node and sensor suite were one use only. I see they aren't, so I take it back. Didn't check your math, but it looks like you are overstating things. Those shots generate 7.5 hits, not wounds. The sensor suite will only really help against 5+ saves or worse. Not enough plasma to capitalize.

Offline Halollet

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Re: 1500 Tau vs IG
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2013, 09:27:03 AM »
Your army looks good except for the following;

HQ
Commander: 200
- XV8-02, Shield generator, 2 Fusion blasters, Airbursting fragmentation projector, Onager gauntlet, Puretide engram neurochip
Joins either Fusion or Missile suits and kills tanks

ELITES
Crises Team: 166
- Shas'Vre, Multi-spectrum sensor suite, Command & control node, Flamer
- Burst cannon, Plasma rifle
- Burst cannon, Plasma rifle
Anti-infantry firepower
Crises Team: 171
- 2 Fusion blasters, Flamer
- 2 Fusion blasters, Flamer
- 2 Fusion blasters, Flamer
Nuke a leman russ each turn with commander. Hopefully, if they don't I die :(


The way you have it set up, you'll only be able to take out one target when you deep strike.  Tau is so much better at shooting then that! :p

If I were you, I would do this

HQ
Commander: ??
- XV8-02, Shield generator, 2 Fusion blasters, Airbursting fragmentation projector, Onager gauntlet, Puretide engram neurochip
-Shield drone x2
Joins Fusion for devastation and then detaches to cause more problems.

ELITES
Crises Team: ??
- Shas'Vre, Multi-spectrum sensor suite, Command & control node, Flamer
- 2 Fusion blasters, Target Lock
- 2 Fusion blasters, Target Lock
- Shield Drones to taste.
Nuke 3 tanks when dropped with Commander.  Continue to nuke 1-2 tanks a turn until the enemy stops them.

Crises Team: ??
- Burst cannon, Plasma rifle
- Burst cannon, Plasma rifle
- Burst cannon, Plasma rifle
Anti-infantry firepower.  Sometimes volume can overtake quality!  But if you want quality, find the points to TL the Plasma Rifles.

You can drop the auto repairs from the devilfishes and some firewarriors to get the points for this.

Also, get a kroot hound.  That way outflanking is so much better if you choose to do it!  And you can spare the points somewhere! Its cheap!

Well if you read the rules as written for automated repair system, then a roll of a 6 for the devilfish can fix the hammerhead's gun, doesn't say you must repair the same vehicle.

Don't do this. Don't even try it. It makes you an ass.

Also this.

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Offline Wyddr

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Re: 1500 Tau vs IG
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2013, 09:49:20 AM »
Well if you read the rules as written for automated repair system, then a roll of a 6 for the devilfish can fix the hammerhead's gun, doesn't say you must repair the same vehicle.

Don't do this. Don't even try it. It makes you an ass.


Actually, I'd like to offer my apologies for this comment. I went back and read the rule in question and it explicitly works the way you say. I had misread it and assumed you were using some pedantic shenanigans. I would still say that the system isn't worth it, though, since immobilized and weapon destroyed results hardly happen anymore.

Offline Plastikente

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Re: 1500 Tau vs IG
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2013, 04:55:15 PM »
I went back and read the rule in question and it explicitly works the way you say.
Yeah, it looks to me like sloppy rules writing from GW (surprise, surprise).  You only get to roll if the vehicle with the ARS (nice acronym [snicker]  :D) has an immobilised/weapon destroyed result, but having rolled you can allocate the repair to vehicles without that upgrade...

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: 1500 Tau vs IG
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2013, 03:32:28 PM »
You only get to roll if the vehicle with the ARS (nice acronym [snicker]  :D) has an immobilised/weapon destroyed result, but having rolled you can allocate the repair to vehicles without that upgrade...

GW like doing that with acronyms, remember the Advanced Stabilisation System?

How's Longstrike been treating you? I've taken him as I just like the idea and I'm interested in hearing other peoples experiences with him.
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Offline The Unseenly Invincible

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Re: 1500 Tau vs IG
« Reply #8 on: July 2, 2013, 01:33:17 PM »
Poring over this, all I really have to say is: where is that AA? This is the age of the flyer (sort of), and in your list, I don't see anything that can, with some degree of effectivness, eliminate flyers. And especially against IG Vendettas (trust me - most people who can take these) you need a skyray or broadside AA platform, or something.
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Offline Shas'La robo

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Re: 1500 Tau vs IG
« Reply #9 on: July 3, 2013, 01:17:21 AM »
Poring over this, all I really have to say is: where is that AA? This is the age of the flyer (sort of), and in your list, I don't see anything that can, with some degree of effectivness, eliminate flyers. And especially against IG Vendettas (trust me - most people who can take these) you need a skyray or broadside AA platform, or something.

95% sure there will be no flyers.

So possible alternate list following on from suggestions

HQ
Commander: 224
- XV8-02, Shield generator, 2 Fusion blasters, Airbursting fragmentation projector, Onager gauntlet, Puretide engram neurochip, 2 Shield drones
Joins either Fusion or Missile suits and kills tanks, then splits off and does warlord/dangerous unit hunting

ELITES
Crises Team: 156
- Twin linked Burst cannon, Plasma rifle
- Twin linked Burst cannon, Plasma rifle
- Twin linked Burst cannon, Plasma rifle
Anti-infantry firepower
Crises Team: 186
- Shas'Vre, Multi-spectrum sensor suite, Command & control node, Flamer
- 2 Fusion blasters, Target lock
- 2 Fusion blasters, Target lock
Nuke a Leman russ (or 2) each turn with commander. Hopefully, if they don't die :(
Crises Team: 171
- 2 Missile pod, Flamer
- 2 Missile pod, Flamer
- 2 Missile pod, Flamer
Standard anti-transport

TROOPS
9 Fire Warriors: 166
- Devilfish, Automated repair system
9 Fire Warriors: 166
- Devilfish, Automated repair system
9 Fire Warriors: 166
- Devilfish, Automated repair system
Provide mobile cover for crises suits if they need it, then rapid response to objectives end-game
10 Kroot: 65
- 1 Hound
Sits in reserve and outflanks to contest late game, maybe infiltrate if there is a nice forest somewhere

HEAVY SUPPORT
Hammerhead: 195
- Railgun w/ Submunition, SMS, Automated repair system, Disruption pod, Longstrike
Anti-everything thanks to Longstrike + submunition

Total: 1495
Any final suggestions, will be playing in 2 days??

robo
« Last Edit: July 4, 2013, 08:43:33 PM by Shas'La robo »
hug cover, shoot the big ones, and cripple the fast ones. if those cant be achieved, kill em all.  8)

Offline The Unseenly Invincible

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Re: 1500 Tau vs IG
« Reply #10 on: July 4, 2013, 01:20:51 PM »
95% sure there will be no flyers.

Aha. I see.


Anyways:

First off, I think the FW squad cost totals are 166 points, not 165.

That commander also looks woefully expensive. While toys are cool, I think that 224 points into a single (well... theoretically three) model is much too much by tau standards - play grey knights/chaos if you want to 224 point models. Take a bit of slack, get rid of the the Gauntlet and Shield Generator and the fatty stuff like that, then spend points into something more useful, such as Disruption Pods on the Devilfishes.

Also, the 11th Kroot is redundant. If someone wants to kill the kroot squad, they will, and 1 more kroot won't prevent that. Save the 6 points. Keep the hound for acute senses, though.

I am also uncertain about the effectivness of plasma rifles against IG. While usually a solid choice for suits, AP 2 is hardly necessary against flak armour. You'd be better off with Missile Pods - you still get the 2+ to wound and 2 shots, and MP has more overall effectivness.
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Offline Shas'La robo

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Re: 1500 and 1750 Tau vs IG
« Reply #11 on: July 5, 2013, 05:01:24 AM »
Was a good game, won 8-1 in the Scouring with Hammer and Anvil deployment. I had a 3 and a 2 point objective, Slay the Warlord, Linebreaker and destroyed a Devildog. He had First Blood (Longstrike)

How's Longstrike been treating you? I've taken him as I just like the idea and I'm interested in hearing other peoples experiences with him.

Longstrike didn't get a chance to prove his worth, being glanced to death first turn (mainly due to bad deployment on my part) after explaining how deadly he could be to my opponent, which wasn't a bad thing, saved my devilfish/crises suits being targeted first turn.

The commander was a total boss who, along with the Fusion suits, destroyed 4 Leman russ over turns 2-4, and most of 2 infantry squads.

The other two suit squads performed admirably, killing the Banewolf, a heavy weapon squad and around 25ish guardsmen.

On to the troops, the Kroot camped out of LoS on the 3 points objective the whole game while the Fire warriors either disembarked to take close objectives or were blown away after disembarking to capture opposition objectives, I swear i rolled 3s for all of their armour saves... The devilfish's drones were extremely useful harassers, only taking fire from 2-3 guardsmen at a time and usually shrugging it off.

Having a rematch next week at 1750, so need to add some anti-flyer and maybe more anti-infantry.



Edit: here's the list

HQ
Commander: 226
- XV8-02, Shield generator, 2 Fusion blasters, Airbursting fragmentation projector, Onager gauntlet, Puretide engram neurochip, Neuroweb system jammer, 2 Shield drones
Anti-tank with Fusion suits, then anti-infantry/annoyance unit

ELITES
Crises Team: 180
- Twin linked Burst cannon, Plasma rifle, 2 Shield drones
- Twin linked Burst cannon, Plasma rifle
- Twin linked Burst cannon, Plasma rifle
Anti-infantry
Crises Team: 210
- Shas'Vre, Multi-spectrum sensor suite, Command & control node, Flamer, 2 Shield drones
- 2 Fusion blasters, Target lock
- 2 Fusion blasters, Target lock
Anti-tank with commander
Crises Team: 240
- 2 Missile pod, Velocity tracker, 2 Shield drones
- 2 Missile pod, Velocity tracker
- 2 Missile pod, Velocity tracker
Anti-flyer and light transport


TROOPS
9 Fire Warriors: 181
- Devilfish, Automated repair system, Disruption pod
9 Fire Warriors: 181
- Devilfish, Automated repair system, Disruption pod
9 Fire Warriors: 181
- Devilfish, Automated repair system, Disruption pod
Objective takers, drones distraction unit
10 Kroot: 65
- 1 Hound
Objective camper out of LoS or outflanking shenanigans

FAST ATTACK
Piranha: 55
- Fusion blaster, Automated repair system

Anti-tank and annoyance, drones distraction unit

HEAVY SUPPORT
Hammerhead: 195
- Railgun w/ Submunition, SMS, Automated repair system, Disruption pod, Longstrike
Anti-everything thanks to Longstrike and submunition (hopefully doesn't die this time)

Total: 1714
Now what to do with the final 36 points??
Things added/changed from the 1500 list in blue


robo
« Last Edit: July 5, 2013, 07:31:05 AM by Shas'La robo »
hug cover, shoot the big ones, and cripple the fast ones. if those cant be achieved, kill em all.  8)

Offline Halollet

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Re: 1500 and 1750 Tau vs IG
« Reply #12 on: July 5, 2013, 08:54:52 AM »
People here really underestimate the potential of a suped up Commander.  I'm glad its working out for your as much as its working out for me!

As for what to do....

I would drop the repair systems on the fish and Piranha and take an Ethereal.  (Or, change one skyfire to target lock for the points) Those guys are really nasty with the fish of fury.  When your FW jump out of the fish, the ethereal can stay there and his effect is measured from the hull of the fish, so its easy to get lots of guys in range. 1.5 times the fire power will get rid of a lot of guardsmen.

The only real wasted points I see is the Repair system on the Piranha
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Offline Shas'La robo

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Re: 1500 and 1750 Tau vs IG
« Reply #13 on: July 6, 2013, 02:06:44 AM »
People here really underestimate the potential of a suped up Commander.  I'm glad its working out for your as much as its working out for me!

Yes!!! As long as you take Iridium armour, a Shield generator and 2 shield drones (and jump-shoot-jump in/out of cover, like all good Tau) he and his unit are practically indestructible unless your opponent shoots everything at them. Even then someone is still likely to survive and the rest of your army is left unscathed.

I think this commander ans fusion suit setup is now a staple of my lists, thanks to this one game, destroying half of the enemy army over the course of the game, and only losing the 2 drones and 1 wound on a crises suit.  ;D


I would drop the repair systems on the fish and Piranha and take an Ethereal.  (Or, change one skyfire to target lock for the points) Those guys are really nasty with the fish of fury.  When your FW jump out of the fish, the ethereal can stay there and his effect is measured from the hull of the fish, so its easy to get lots of guys in range. 1.5 times the fire power will get rid of a lot of guardsmen.

So you'd recommend running 2 or even all 3 of the devilfish as 'shoal' together and decimating a flank with 81+ pulse shots?? Could work, and I think i will try it, but I'm not sure it's really worth it if only using a single squad. Guess I'll find out, and report back, for the Greater Good!

Another list redo

HQ
Commander: 226
- XV8-02, Shield generator, 2 Fusion blasters, Airbursting fragmentation projector, Onager gauntlet, Puretide engram neurochip, Neuroweb system jammer, 2 Shield drones
Anti-tank with Fusion suits, then anti-infantry/annoyance unit
Ethereal: 55
- Homing beacon

Mass Fish of Fury with Fire warriors, also allows for some tactical flexibility with deepstriking suits

ELITES
Crises Team: 180
- Twin linked Burst cannon, Plasma rifle, 2 Shield drones
- Twin linked Burst cannon, Plasma rifle
- Twin linked Burst cannon, Plasma rifle
Anti-infantry
Crises Team: 210
- Shas'Vre, Multi-spectrum sensor suite, Command & control node, Flamer, 2 Shield drones
- 2 Fusion blasters, Target lock
- 2 Fusion blasters, Target lock
Anti-tank with commander
Crises Team: 240
- 2 Missile pod, Velocity tracker, 2 Shield drones
- 2 Missile pod, Velocity tracker
- 2 Missile pod, Velocity tracker
Anti-flyer and light transport


TROOPS
9 Fire Warriors: 176
- Devilfish, Disruption pod
9 Fire Warriors: 176
- Devilfish, Disruption pod
9 Fire Warriors: 176
- Devilfish, Disruption pod
Objective takers, Fish of Fury, drones distraction unit
10 Kroot: 65
- 1 Hound
Objective camper out of LoS or outflanking shenanigans

FAST ATTACK
Piranha: 50
- Fusion blaster

Anti-tank and annoyance, drones distraction unit

HEAVY SUPPORT
Hammerhead: 195
- Railgun w/ Submunition, SMS, Automated repair system, Disruption pod, Longstrike
Anti-everything thanks to Longstrike and submunition (hopefully doesn't die this time)

Total: 1749
Things added/changed from the 1500 list in blue

robo
hug cover, shoot the big ones, and cripple the fast ones. if those cant be achieved, kill em all.  8)

Offline Venita

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Re: 1500 and 1750 Tau vs IG
« Reply #14 on: July 6, 2013, 06:37:53 AM »
How do you survive fire frm four tanks that can kill your whole squad in one turn for three turns?

He deployed all his tanks in one place with a little infantry support or what?

Offline Halollet

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Re: 1500 and 1750 Tau vs IG
« Reply #15 on: July 6, 2013, 09:24:27 AM »
People here really underestimate the potential of a suped up Commander.  I'm glad its working out for your as much as its working out for me!

Yes!!! As long as you take Iridium armour, a Shield generator and 2 shield drones (and jump-shoot-jump in/out of cover, like all good Tau) he and his unit are practically indestructible unless your opponent shoots everything at them. Even then someone is still likely to survive and the rest of your army is left unscathed.

I think this commander ans fusion suit setup is now a staple of my lists, thanks to this one game, destroying half of the enemy army over the course of the game, and only losing the 2 drones and 1 wound on a crises suit.  ;D

I think I might steal your set up actually.  I had my guy with a fusion/ion and the last game the fusion missed the target.... that's not good.  How has the purtide been working for you?  Which abilities have you been using?

Otherwise your list looks great! I can't wait to hear the results of your next battle!
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Offline Shas'La robo

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Re: 1500 and 1750 Tau vs IG
« Reply #16 on: July 6, 2013, 11:17:24 PM »
I think I might steal your set up actually.  I had my guy with a fusion/ion and the last game the fusion missed the target.... that's not good.  How has the purtide been working for you?  Which abilities have you been using?

Otherwise your list looks great! I can't wait to hear the results of your next battle!

Only really used Tank hunters, most of the others are just bonuses for whenever not shooting at tanks.

How do you survive fire frm four tanks that can kill your whole squad in one turn for three turns?

He deployed all his tanks in one place with a little infantry support or what?

2 of the tanks were only ap4, the conqueror (died turn 2), shot and made the armour saves, and eradicator (died turn 3), didn't shoot at the commander, while the executioner killed a drone, then died (on turn 2) and the MBT (died turn 4) didn't have line of sight.

Cover saves are your friend, and spreading models out almost the full 2", so small blasts can only hit 2 models/large blasts hit 3-4.
And keep jump-shoot-jumping forwards from cover to cover, will be in the enemy deployment zone end of turn 2. 6" move + 2D6" (avg 7)" assault move + 6" move + 2D6" (avg 7") assault move =~ 26" worth of movement, which could be better or worse depending on your rolls and if you decide to run first turn.

robo
hug cover, shoot the big ones, and cripple the fast ones. if those cant be achieved, kill em all.  8)

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: 1500 and 1750 Tau vs IG
« Reply #17 on: July 7, 2013, 09:13:05 PM »
Longstrike didn't get a chance to prove his worth, being glanced to death first turn (mainly due to bad deployment on my part) after explaining how deadly he could be to my opponent, which wasn't a bad thing, saved my devilfish/crises suits being targeted first turn. 

That's a shame but also an example of how easy it can be to get inside your opponents head and get them focusing on one aspect of your army to the detriment for the rest. We've all seen in games, and probably done the same, where they/we focus on one thing and forget the rest of the army that's surging around the flanks.
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Offline Shas'La robo

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Re: 1500 and 1750 Tau vs IG
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2013, 10:25:25 PM »
Game is set for tomorrow, will edit post with results.
Wish the luck of the dice gods upon me!!

Annnnd the results are in!

Won 8-6 in Crusade (3 obbjectives), Dawn of War deployment. I had 2 objectives, Slay the Warlord and Linebreaker, he had 1 objective, Slay the Warlord, First Blood and killed the Ethereal.
Very close game, came down to the last two turns (5 and 6) with the Kroot running for an objective and Linebreaker and the Burst cannon/Plasma rifle suits shooting the Company command squad. I played horribly, lost all 3 devilfish within 3 turns and only had 3 Fire warriors sitting on my home objective out of line of sight.
Longstrike was good, didn't die all game, destroyed 2 Leman russ and  the hull multi-melta off the devildog and shot a few guardsmen.

robo
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 03:58:26 AM by Shas'La robo »
hug cover, shoot the big ones, and cripple the fast ones. if those cant be achieved, kill em all.  8)

Offline Halollet

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Re: 1500 and 1750 Tau vs IG
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2013, 07:49:11 AM »
Game is set for tomorrow, will edit post with results.
Wish the luck of the dice gods upon me!!

Annnnd the results are in!

Won 8-6 in Crusade (3 obbjectives), Dawn of War deployment. I had 2 objectives, Slay the Warlord and Linebreaker, he had 1 objective, Slay the Warlord, First Blood and killed the Ethereal.
Very close game, came down to the last two turns (5 and 6) with the Kroot running for an objective and Linebreaker and the Burst cannon/Plasma rifle suits shooting the Company command squad. I played horribly, lost all 3 devilfish within 3 turns and only had 3 Fire warriors sitting on my home objective out of line of sight.
Longstrike was good, didn't die all game, destroyed 2 Leman russ and  the hull multi-melta off the devildog and shot a few guardsmen.

robo

Sweet! Well done!  But.... how did your commander bite it?
One sure mark of a fool is to dismiss anything that falls outside of his experience as being impossible.

 


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