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Author Topic: A new tactica: Deff Squadron...  (Read 2268 times)

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Offline adamscurr

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A new tactica: Deff Squadron...
« on: June 6, 2013, 07:35:05 AM »
So...  It's been a long time since us orks have written a tactica.  I was considering writing a tactica on our flyers.  I know how I use them, but I would like to compile a list of:

1.  preferences for flyer loadout/upgrades.
2.  how do you use your fliers (angles, do you fly off, ect).
3.  pictures of orky flyers (I'd also like to include links from any flyer building projects you have online).
4.  some lists that include flyers and tell me how you use the flyer in your list.

Adam


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Offline SKEETERGOD

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Re: A new tactica: Deff Squadron...
« Reply #1 on: June 6, 2013, 11:19:40 AM »
Rolling Thunder
(An Ork 1500 Speed Freak list)

BIG MEK: Bat Mek; Cybork, heavy armor, Shoota.

TROOPS
1: 12 BOYS; Shootas, NOB, ‘eavy armor, boss pole, Power Claw.
TRUKK; Red Paint, Plank, ram.
2: 12 BOYS; Shootas, NOB, ‘eavy armor, boss pole, Power Claw.
TRUKK; Red Paint, Plank, ram.
3: 12 BOYS; Shootas, NOB, ‘eavy armor, boss pole, Power Claw.
TRUKK; Red Paint, Plank, ram.
4: 12 BOYS; Slugga/choppa, NOB, ‘eavy armor, boss pole, Power Claw.   
TRUKK; Red Paint, Plank, ram.
5: 12 BOYS; Slugga/choppa, NOB, ‘eavy armor, boss pole, Power Claw.   
TRUKK; Red Paint, Plank, ram.
6: 11 BOYS; Shootas, NOB, ‘eavy armor, boss pole, Power Claw.
TRUKK; Red Paint, Plank, ram.

FAST
1:  3 War Buggies, Twin Link Rockits, Red Paint.
2:  3 War Buggies, Tracks, Red Paint, Twin Link Rocket Launcher.
3:  Burna Bomma, four rockits, (red paint for looks but not paid for in points)

Total   =1486

Basically it is a get into your face fast list, and the bomma flies around taking out targets of opportunity and being a distraction.

The bomma has actually shot down enemy fliers, and has scorched many targets on the ground. It is mainly anti infantry and non vehicle heavy support stuff (like devastators, etc).  It has a 70% survival rate so far and has actually earned its points back in most of its games. Like making a dead on hit with a bomb right on a DE HQ unit wiping it out and earning a kill the warlord point. (it was great fun to see the look of my opponent as his 200+ point death star unit burned up)

I always try to find a two target run. That is to find an enemy unit to fly over to drop a bomb on, and a second unit that I can shoot missiles at. While not the most scientific and concise tactic it does seem to work out well most of the time.

Hope that is what you were looking for.
"It needs but one foe to breed a war. And even those who have not swords can still die upon them" (Lady Eowyn)
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Quote from: angel of death 007
Skeetergod: (adj) A crazy fascination for all things combustible mixed with an unhealty lust for red paint. see also Speed Freak

Offline adamscurr

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Re: A new tactica: Deff Squadron...
« Reply #2 on: June 6, 2013, 01:22:58 PM »
Thanks for the response...  That's exactly what I wanted...  Keep them coming!

Adam


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Offline SKEETERGOD

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Re: A new tactica: Deff Squadron...
« Reply #3 on: June 7, 2013, 10:01:53 AM »
Now to mention the dakka jet. Mine is equipped with  the extra supa shoota and the ace upgrade. When it comes on the table it shoots at something, maybe causing damage on a unit of infantry or even a rhino. Then it gets shot down.

One game it came on, I waaghed, and even with double twin link  shooting I only glanced a rhino full of purifiers. Then it got shot down and crashed on one of my own trucks causing a glance on it as well. So 100+ points to cause two glancing hits and award my opponent a kill point.

Maybe as earlier suggested I must own a cursed dakka jet, or I may be using it all wrong. But, my dakka jet usually is not worth the points even though it is a cool looking model.

Hopefully the all wise and powerful adamscurr will be able to enlighten us on the propa use of the dakka jet, as he seems to have two. I am seriously awaiting propa instruction for the use of my dakka jet. Or, to just not use it except as a display model.
"It needs but one foe to breed a war. And even those who have not swords can still die upon them" (Lady Eowyn)
     We orks are not about being the hero; We orks are about being the mob.
                         
Quote from: angel of death 007
Skeetergod: (adj) A crazy fascination for all things combustible mixed with an unhealty lust for red paint. see also Speed Freak

Offline adamscurr

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Re: A new tactica: Deff Squadron...
« Reply #4 on: June 9, 2013, 07:38:39 AM »
Well...  I must admit that I love my dakka jets...  All that firepower gets my green blood pumping...  speaking of...  The pro's to the dakka jet are low point cost and a lot of supa shootas... 

I used to run 3 to 6 rokkit buggies in every list...  But now in 6th I find that my beloved rokkit buggies are not as effective...  For the same price (roughly) I can take a dakka jet which able to loose some serious firepower...

My typical use is to bring it on, on the far left or right flank (avoiding anything with intercept).  I try to bring it on at such an angle that I can get a side armor shot on a vehical.  I normally waaagh this turn just to make sure it counts.  I then fly horizontally across the board, angling the flyer to get rear armor shots.  If things get hairy or I don't have a target, I fly off...

My typical target priority is vehicals, then infantry, particularly those that will not get a save so I can maximize my firepower...  Occassionaly I'll go for an outlying squad like devs or someone on an objective...

Anyone got any infor on the blitza bomba?  I was looking it over again in the Death From the Skies book and I am still disapointed with the stats.  There are two problems: 1. The screaming decent rule is too much of a liability.  I love ork rules that are random, but I also like extremely good things to happen on occasion.  The best result is that he gets to fire his supashoota! Yay!  :-\  On the other hand, the worst result is that he gets blown up and makes a crater of himself...  This does not seem to balance well...  2. The Boom Bomb is just not that good...  The better penetration would be nice if the things had a better AP...  With only AP1 and 2 making a difference on the damage table, it's AP is not going to cut it...  Now, had it been ap2, this jet would make sense...

Adam
« Last Edit: June 9, 2013, 08:07:19 AM by adamscurr »


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Offline SKEETERGOD

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Re: A new tactica: Deff Squadron...
« Reply #5 on: June 9, 2013, 01:19:30 PM »
I agree on the blitza. I proxied it once (figured it couldn't be worse than the dakka jet) and found that the bomb is actually worse than a burna bomb, and of course on my second dive bomb run I made the smoking hole and caused no damage to anything whatsoever. So I don't have one in my collection.
"It needs but one foe to breed a war. And even those who have not swords can still die upon them" (Lady Eowyn)
     We orks are not about being the hero; We orks are about being the mob.
                         
Quote from: angel of death 007
Skeetergod: (adj) A crazy fascination for all things combustible mixed with an unhealty lust for red paint. see also Speed Freak

Offline Colonel Twisting Shadow

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Re: A new tactica: Deff Squadron...
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2013, 02:15:13 AM »
The Dakka Jet's the only one I've brought to bear thus far; and in the two games I've played with it, it gave me a warm fuzzy.

With the extra Shoota and the BS upgrade (the name evades me), I managed to drop a pricy New-dar flyer (the one with the lances/pulse laser) without a Waaagh; and in the other game I managed to chew through a whole unit of dire avengers that just lost a serpent (with Waaagh).  Doublefiring, twin linked, extra supashootas are pure win.

I would consider the Dakka (with aforementioned mandatory upgrades) amongst our best AA units.  Furthermore, the potential to instajib T3 HQ units is just gross.  Even against a lot of MCs (esp nids), there's a potential to force wounds through weight of dice.

Do the math (actually I will); a dakka jet (as detailed several times already) will average 6.75 hits a turn at S6. 

-Vs AV10 you're dealing 3-4 hull points, which is enough to finish off any vehicle (does anyone have 4 hullpoints?).  As AV10 targets typically have only 2, you could even mess up a squad of vehicles (Warwalkers, buggies, sentinels, etc).

-Vs AV11 you're getting 2 hull points.  That might be enough on a fresh target, and on something wounded it's lights out.

-Vs T3 you're wounding on all but one dice (5-6 hits), and instakilling.  Plus, most T3 units don't wear powerarmor.

-Vs T4 you'll still wound all but one, but if they're in power armor the'll shrug off all but two.  Still, that pays for a third of your flier (more if you catch a special weapon or sarge!)

-Vs T5 you'll get about four wounds, and Vs T6 you'll get three.  Anything higher and it's not such a good idea.  That in itself doesn't look that great, but it's enough to take a wound of a T6 bug with a 3+ save.  sound's weak, but if you finish off a tervigon you can maul nearby termagants by default, or polish off a hive guard, and save a trukk!  Maybe finish of that Daemon prince/Greater daemon? Don't bother shooting a Dreadknight though...2+ will shrug most of the hurt.


The real secret is the Waaagh.  Simply double the numbers, and you start to see where this guy shines.  highlights are as follows:
6-7 HP off AV10 vehicle squadron
12 Wounds to T4 (or less), instakilling T3s (I gotta keep saying it).  That's 4 unsaved SM wounds, too.
6-7 wounds to a T6 MC.

Those are scary numbers; for 130pts.  If you fly on the board, Waaagh, and pick a good target, you can pay for your flier (and more) in just one volley.  Then, laugh as the opponent freaks out and looses everything on it till it dies (it will), when he should be bringing down trukks/kans.

Then again, if you've got a cursed pilot (like Skeet), you'll probably only make out with a few infantry kills before you turn into a fireball.


Adamscurr; your welcome to use my numbers if you want, and I can PM you the work if you'd like (for your article).  The math isn't really hard, but if I've already done it...  I demand teef in payment!
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ORDER: Elysians 2k5, Armored battlegroup 2k5, Infantry Guard 2k, Dark Angles 4k5, Grey Knights 2k
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I'm both proud and ashamed of those numbers...

Offline adamscurr

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Re: A new tactica: Deff Squadron...
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2013, 08:10:53 PM »
Thanks for the input Colonel!  I'll definitely include the numbers and give a proper teef award when complete!

I was considering expanding the article to include some of the IA fliers as well...  I would probably limit this to those that do not have structure points to keep Apoc out of the article. 

Has anyone used a Fighta Bomba in a regular game?  I've used one in Apoc before and it was awesome...  But in a regular game, it could be awesome.  While expensive, it has a higher armor value than the other jets, and can pack a real punch with a boat load of TL big Shootas and rokkits.  Most interesting are the grot rokkits, which fire a marine killing large blast.  It can take a good bit of these...  Making this an interesting choice for bringing some BOOM!!!

Adam 


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Offline Kogtoof

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Re: A new tactica: Deff Squadron...
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2013, 10:36:30 PM »
I run three dakakjets with an extra Tl supa shoota and fighta ace combined with old zogwort and a weirdboy make it a deadly unit with BS3 ork shooting and 9-18 shots per turn. zogwort and the weirdboy give me some good chances to get more waaagghs then the one you already get. (also it is fun to turn Draigo into a squig)

Offline adamscurr

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Re: A new tactica: Deff Squadron...
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2013, 01:20:07 PM »
I'll bet that's a good time Kog...  Do you have appropriate modeled squigs?  It would be fun to model a squig bursting out of terminator armor! lol

Adam


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Offline angel of death 007

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Re: A new tactica: Deff Squadron...
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2013, 07:24:48 PM »
I have one dakka jet and one magnatized jet I can use for a fighta bomber, a dakka jet, or a burna bomba or blitza bomba. 

So far I will say the dakka jet is ok but it really needs a +1 str to it's guns.   It would be so much more effective.  It is fast enough that you can get into position for some rear shots on armor but overall the str. is kinda low. 

I like the fighta bomba and would love for our next dex to include it.   Mostly though I have just been fielding one dakka jet because I have been fielding allies when I go for touney play. 

Offline adamscurr

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Re: A new tactica: Deff Squadron...
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2013, 06:33:40 AM »
Thanks for the input AoD...  +1 to the str on the gunz would be great, but people think the dakka jet is too shooty as is! lol

I'll chime in a little on my experience with the fighta bomba...  I love this jet...  I've played two games with it now and both times it has been my MVP...  The first was against crons and I managed to blow a large unit of warriors to smitherings (including that nasty cron lord) and then I dmged another unit before the game was over...  The second time I went up against a hybrid death wing/regular marine list and again the plane shines, taking out an entire 10 man dev squad before the game was called (managed to win this one against the DA.  The cron was going to be a draw until alas, my boyz where blown off the objective! lol  So a "didn't loose" as Skeet would say! lol) 


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Offline Nobbla

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Re: A new tactica: Deff Squadron...
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2013, 05:01:19 AM »
@Colonel Twisting Shadow; You are way too optimistic in your numbers! For example, the probability that you score 6 glancing (or penetrating) hits or more, when using Waaagh, on an AV10 target is 28.2%. For 7 glancing (or penetrating) hits or more, the probability is 13.8%. The most probable outcome of this scenario is 4 glancing (or penetrating) hits with a score of 21.2%.

Offline adamscurr

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Re: A new tactica: Deff Squadron...
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2013, 07:52:42 AM »
Mathhammer aside, I find that my dakka jet fairly consistantly takes out Rhino's and the like.  It is almost certainly reliable to take out AV10...  Anything higher and it doesn't work so good...   I have also found it just destroys armor 4+ and up...  I blew away a Tau fire warriors squad with it to one guy...  With marine saves, it doesn't fair as well...  So the jet has limitations certainly...  But if you target the "right" targets, you do pretty well!

Adam


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Offline WisdomLS

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Re: A new tactica: Deff Squadron...
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2013, 01:00:31 PM »
I have two jets that I've magnetized so I can use them as any of the varieties but I've always found the dakkajet to be the most versatile and cost effective choice.

It can threaten more of less anything and generally goes on anti-air duty or concentrates on taking out transports and monstrous creatures.

They're pretty flimsy so I always Jink when I get hit as with their amount of shots and twin linked the small lose of BS isn't to bad.

I don't know how others have modelled theirs but I've mounted my extra super shootas on the turret mount on top for easy of using it as different version but I find the turret a useful addition when trying to get shots in at hard to see targets.

Here's a shot of me boyz flying in formation:


 

Offline Colonel Twisting Shadow

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Re: A new tactica: Deff Squadron...
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2013, 11:35:16 AM »
@Nobbla, with 3xTL shootas, and BS3 pretty much all the time, 9 shots with rerolls is 4.5+2.25=6.5 hits.  3 hullpoints on a 4+ to glance.  With a waaagh, the numbers double... No?  I'm happy to take up the math if you like though, I do make mistakes at times.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 11:36:28 AM by Colonel Twisting Shadow »
Hey! I know!  Let's focus on building army lists, instead of silly custom titles and command structures, yeah?

From the days of the doctorines.
RIP-Goyder, Koonitz, and Jenkins.  Honour them.

Armies:
ORDER: Elysians 2k5, Armored battlegroup 2k5, Infantry Guard 2k, Dark Angles 4k5, Grey Knights 2k
DISORDER: Chaos 3k, Daemons 2k Dark Eldar 2k5, Nids 2k, Orks 2k5
I'm both proud and ashamed of those numbers...

Offline Nobbla

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Re: A new tactica: Deff Squadron...
« Reply #16 on: August 7, 2013, 08:20:19 AM »
Sorry for my late reply
@Colonel Twisting Shadow, you can not add up mean values in that simple way. Instead use the Bernoulli trial to calculate probability. An alternative could be to make the actual case enough times to get a statistical significance result.

 


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