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Author Topic: "For the Greater Good" is not for my greater good!  (Read 3064 times)

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Offline adamscurr

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"For the Greater Good" is not for my greater good!
« on: May 26, 2013, 04:50:32 PM »
So...  I got to play a good friend of mine with his shiny new Tau list and I have determined when they are talking about "the greater good," they are definitly not talking about my greater good!  I've been running his list over in my mind and thinking about how to beat it with the ork codex...  Maybe you guys can give me some advice...

His list looked something like this...

Battle Suit Commander with about 4 more suits all with a lot of rockets (Marker lights here)

2 units of plasma battle suits (Marker lights here too)

1 unit of stealth suits

3 (maybe 2, they were all mixed around in cover) units of pathfinders to marker light me up)

3 units of 12 fire warrior with an Ethereal nearby to do his widjity stuff... (extra shot if rapid fireing, gave them leadership 10 and stubborn)

Hammerhead with rail gun

Skyray

3 fusion blaster piranas

His list was not very mobile asise form the battle suits.  They pretty much just shot me to pieces as I approached.  He got first turn which is always bad against Tau...  Worse though, all those marker lights meant he was able to remove my cover saves and raise his BS to stupid levels... 

Adam


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Offline Crispy86

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Re: "For the Greater Good" is not for my greater good!
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2013, 08:35:05 PM »
Hi Adam,

Its hard for Orks to close the distance with enough bodies to really make it count against the Tau. I'd bring my mega dreadz in the heavy slots with kill kannons and take two warbosses with accompanying Nobz in battle wagons as my troops and HQ. This way you're only giving him armour 13-14 to shoot at and can limit damage. Sprinkle in some lootas for some AA and Hopefully you can cause some casualties with your return kill kannon shooting and the nobz with some luck will make it into his lines. Hopefully the multiple threats will cause him to make some mistakes and target the mega dreadz instead of the battle wagons.

Crispy
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Offline nawari

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Re: "For the Greater Good" is not for my greater good!
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2013, 08:40:34 PM »
yep markerlights are key to any tau army. unlucky for us we don't have much ranged firepower that bring the pain first turn like they can. so we have to get close lol, and as you have probably noticed is not that easy against a good tau player.

when I verse tau I take ALOT of trucks. in a 1500 list i have about 6 trukks backed up by bikes, and outflanking baron(s). I find that i must go forward as fast as possible and accept that i will lose about 50% of my army before i even reach their lines. the funny thing though it works, too much target priority for the tau to shoot at and i only need about 5 boys to make it into 12 firewarriors. BUT keep in mind i have only played them at my LGS so the tables are a lot smaller, so by turn one im already in their deployment zone.

In my opinion that's probably the best way to beat them, i cant imagine having a shooting contest with them and winning.
Wish i had my own pet thunderwolf! Then i could ride into work and people will be like "Dayymm he so awsome right now!"

Offline adamscurr

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Re: "For the Greater Good" is not for my greater good!
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2013, 08:13:04 AM »
In that spirit, I came up with this list:

1750 Evil Sunz...

I think it will be fast enough and resillant enough to get up in their face fast.  I too have noticed that a couple of orks can blow through some fire warriors...  I also am bringing some serious dakka with the list and some mechanization...  While the vehicals will undoubtably get blows, they hopefully will get me close enough and provide another layer of protection he has to shoot through before ripping me up!

Adam


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Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: "For the Greater Good" is not for my greater good!
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2013, 10:27:20 PM »
While it's already been touched upon, high mobility that can't be blown out from beneath something punchy would be the most ideal way to deal with a mobile shooty army.

While trucks are good times, they're really easy to de-mobilize, forcing small units to footslog, which is a very bad thing.

I don't know if the Tau have anything that can ignore cover, but if not, a couple small squads of Gretchin / Orks behind an ADL, [Go to ground... I mean, why not? ;) ] Take a Quad... that makes Gretchin a bit more favourable, and maybe some Killa Kans with Rokkits or KMB's, depending on preference. Maybe some Big Gunz... A couple of troop units that can go to ground behind an ADL will lose a bit of shooty power, but gain a ton of survivability, and if your opponent is wasting shots on them... then that's all to the good.

From there, I'd probably look at a couple of large mobz in Battlewagonz should keep them alive to score objectives

Last, I'd max out on Warbikes, Deff Koptas, and maybe even Nob Bikerz.

If you take Wazdakka, those bikes could be troops, and you could take more Bikes / Koptaz on top of those as FA still.

This might be one of those situations where 'Ard Boyz could be useful, since Markerlights don't do anything to their save. :)


Coming from the experience of having played sit'n'shoot Guard, one of the scariest things for me to face were units that couldn't have their mobility crippled, like bikes, jump packs, and hormagaunts.

Offline Shas'La robo

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Re: "For the Greater Good" is not for my greater good!
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2013, 01:20:35 AM »
While it's already been touched upon, high mobility that can't be blown out from beneath something punchy would be the most ideal way to deal with a mobile shooty army.

While trucks are good times, they're really easy to de-mobilize, forcing small units to footslog, which is a very bad thing.

This, pretty much every weapon we Tau have can destroy a trukk with ease so you are really going to need to spam them, or take more battlewagons.

I don't know if the Tau have anything that can ignore cover, but if not, a couple small squads of Gretchin / Orks behind an ADL, [Go to ground... I mean, why not? ;) ] Take a Quad... that makes Gretchin a bit more favourable, and maybe some Killa Kans with Rokkits or KMB's, depending on preference. Maybe some Big Gunz... A couple of troop units that can go to ground behind an ADL will lose a bit of shooty power, but gain a ton of survivability, and if your opponent is wasting shots on them... then that's all to the good.


Well you know, aside from markerlights that can give any unit ignore cover and flamers not much.

robo
hug cover, shoot the big ones, and cripple the fast ones. if those cant be achieved, kill em all.  8)

Offline adamscurr

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Re: "For the Greater Good" is not for my greater good!
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2013, 07:19:04 AM »
Thanks for the input guys...

Orks (and a lot of armies for that matter) are going to have a tough time when they cannot use cover.  You combine that with raising the BS of the firing model to really high levels and you have a bad situation...

My idea with the trukks was to hide them round 1 if I got second turn, then drive full force right at his lines into his deployment zone.  My trukks with be blow to bits, and probably most of the boyz inside, but they will buy enough time for battle wagons, dakka jets, and flakkas/lootas to start causing a lot of damage... 

My opponent would like to sit and shoot from the back field the whole game.  By getting in his face fast, I should be able to throw off the plan!

Adam


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Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: "For the Greater Good" is not for my greater good!
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2013, 07:19:10 AM »
Well you know, aside from markerlights that can give any unit ignore cover and flamers not much.

robo

Well, fair enough. I guess if someone's using Markerlights to wreck a unit of Gretchin that has gone to ground behind an ADL, you're probably still on the winning side of that exchange. ;)

Offline Upgrade1

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Re: "For the Greater Good" is not for my greater good!
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2013, 08:53:26 AM »
Adamscurr this is your favorite Tau commander Allen here to fill in the blanks of my Tau list you faced last weekend.  I belive this was the complete list but I may be missing some random war gear so the pints may not be exactly 1850 but this is close enough to get a full picture of what happened.

Commander X2 MP, X2MLD, PEN, IA, TL, DC
Ethereal
12 FW
12 FW
12 FW
18 Kroot w/sniper rounds

X3 Crisis  X2 MP TL X4MLD (commander joined here)
X3 Crisis X2PR/EWO
X6 Stealth Suits

X4 Pathfinders
X4 Pathfinders
X3 Piranhas W/FB

Skyray
Railhead w/Longstrike
X3 sniperdrones w/1 

Offline adamscurr

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Re: "For the Greater Good" is not for my greater good!
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2013, 01:24:09 PM »
Yes...  That indeed is the offending list...! lol  I'll give it the Pepsi challenge with my ork list though...  It should be fun...  I know you mentioned their are marker lights all over the list...  But at least I think I'll have a better shot with my mechanized orks of taking it out...  Certainly at least I won't be blown to bits before I even get across the board...  At least I hope...!

Adam


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Offline AndreSTL

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Re: "For the Greater Good" is not for my greater good!
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2013, 02:23:23 PM »
I played a similar list of tau the other day. Thought id try out my new Wagons with rollas. The tau got first turn and both of the wagons were knocked out first turn! Didn't even get to move them, and this was with a cover save from my KFF Big Mek. Footsloging MANZ suck! lol

You have to really watch outfor the " smart missles"; they hit on rear armour regardless of facing, and are S8. So yeah, not much you can do about it.

What saved me in the game was just the sheer number of boys i always bring- at least 90.

even with the large blasts, its just too much for almost any army to kill before theyre on top of them.
Doesn't Ally well with others...

Offline Wyddr

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Re: "For the Greater Good" is not for my greater good!
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2013, 02:37:27 PM »
You have to really watch outfor the " smart missles"; they hit on rear armour regardless of facing, and are S8. So yeah, not much you can do about it.

This is not true, by the way. Neither Seeker Missiles nor Smart Missiles hit rear armor regardless of facing. Somebody is reading the rules wrong or simply pulling the wool over your eyes. They have other rules that make them nasty, yes, but they hit armor facing the same as anybody else.

Offline Upgrade1

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Re: "For the Greater Good" is not for my greater good!
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2013, 02:57:12 PM »
You have to really watch outfor the " smart missles"; they hit on rear armour regardless of facing, and are S8. So yeah, not much you can do about it.

This is not true, by the way. Neither Seeker Missiles nor Smart Missiles hit rear armor regardless of facing. Somebody is reading the rules wrong or simply pulling the wool over your eyes. They have other rules that make them nasty, yes, but they hit armor facing the same as anybody else.

Smart Missile Systems have ignore cover and do not require LOS but hit the armor facing them.  Seeker Missiles need LOS do not ignore cover and also hit the armor facing them. 

Offline Wyddr

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Re: "For the Greater Good" is not for my greater good!
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2013, 03:14:03 PM »
That is what I meant by 'other rules that make them nasty', yes. I was trying not to spell everything out, as that gets you in trouble around here.  :)

Offline Ollieb

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Re: "For the Greater Good" is not for my greater good!
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2013, 04:12:27 PM »
Has anyone tried Stormboyz with Zaggy?  I played Tau with my Sisters and once my Seraphim hit the lines it was game over for him.  I had 1 Retributor squad with Heavy Bolters as fire support and Exorcists to crack the tough stuff. 

Try Stormboyz and Lootas.  Should work if you survive overwatch. 
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Offline adamscurr

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Re: "For the Greater Good" is not for my greater good!
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2013, 06:06:48 PM »
Thanks for all the input...  I think lootas will be fun...  Zag has potential...  Just so random! lol

Adam


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Offline AndreSTL

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Re: "For the Greater Good" is not for my greater good!
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2013, 02:52:09 PM »
I tried Zagstruk the other day with great success. Personally i run him with the min amount of storm boys, to keep cost down, and minimize the chances of a mishap. He has great potential against armies like the Tau and IG alike, for linebreaking.

This success story was against the IG. He deep struck right in front of a squad of LRBT and after a successful charge (and some lucky Vegas dice ;D) he took them all out!
This was enough for my opponent to conceed, as he now had no chance of killing the looming green horde.

In this configuration i only use him against tougher units that cant overwatch, i.e. vehicles. otherwise he'll either be cut down with overwatch or locked in CC and unable to use his PK feetz the next round.
Doesn't Ally well with others...

Offline adamscurr

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Re: "For the Greater Good" is not for my greater good!
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2013, 10:17:54 PM »
Interesting idea...  A min Zag unit would not be too expensive and has the potential to cause some dmg...  Worth considering...  Thanks for the input!

Adam


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Offline Siege_TF

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Re: "For the Greater Good" is not for my greater good!
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2013, 01:55:04 AM »
My anti-zag (and any other such unit) strategy is a Riptide with an Early Warning Override. BY ALL MEANS deepstrike a big, expensive unit.
Onager 
/ˈänəjər
/Noun
An animal of a race of the Asian wild ass (Equus hemionus onager) native to northern Iran.

In other words GW are calling Tau players wild asses for wanting a melee suit option.

 


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