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Offline -V-

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Da Road to 40KO 2013
« on: April 5, 2013, 01:50:23 PM »
Fellow Orkheads, Im asking for your help and support in this.

I will be attending the 2013 40KO tournament in August.  That gives me somewhat just over 5 months.... 5 months to build, buy and paint an entire Ork army for use in this tournament.

Im starting mostly from scratch and am asking for your help on finding and settling on a list early enough that I can have time to get it painted to a good competitive standard and not keep changing the list to make what Ive already got done redundant... if that makes sense.

The tournament allows for FW units to be used so I have just ordered vol.8, so I am open to people suggesting these units. 

What Id like is help and suggestions in making a competitive (ish) Ork list ... im not bothered about winning or placing I just want to have fun doing it (hence the choice of Orks).  the limit is 1750.

What I have painted and would like to use... Warboss, Bik Mek, Zagstrukk, 10 Storm boyz, 20 Slugga Boys.  I intend to make a big unit of Ard Boyz but other than that I am entirely without restrictions and open to all thoughts.

Thanks my green friends

Offline OD from TV

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Re: Da Road to 40KO 2013
« Reply #1 on: April 5, 2013, 05:37:06 PM »
Well if you want a fun army, then Orks are right up your alley.  Nothing says they can't be effective either, which is really what this first section breakdown of what you have is about...

Bosses have a number of different uses, all of which are kinda dependent on his loadout.  Not knowing which variety you have, I'm going to hazard a guess he may be the one from AoBR.  In that case he'd have a Pk, Bosspole, and Twin Linked Shoota.  Some WYSIWYG lawyers would claim that he has Cybork due to the 2 or 3 wires and eyepiece, and is not sufficiently armored to have Eavy Armor.  Typically if you have points you want both of those on a Warboss, so I'd just make a note of it to people you play against that he has it if you want it.

Uses with this Loadout: Boost a Slugga/Shoota Mob, add a Character to a Nob Mob so someone can fight Challenges besides the Dok (who you need to protect at all costs), or add a Bosspole to a Meganob unit (although that restricts the Boss and forces him to fight Challenges).

Big Mek
Not knowing the loadout is a restriction as there are a couple different Big Mek models to choose from, not to mention Orky Konversions.  The most common is the Kustom Force Field and the Shock Attack Gun.  The KFF is in many players eyes the Most Important upgrade to an Ork army, as for Footsloggers it protects the group and commonly gives them a save where they wouldn't have one against 95% of enemy shooting, and as for vehicle heavy armies it goes a ways towards protecting them with the bonus of a nearby Mek to fix any Immobilizations or Weapon Destroyed.  Of course the KFF did get FAQ'd to lesser effectiveness. 

The SAG is an incredibly random gun that at times myself I've sweared by and at other times have sweared at.  SAG's can blow themselves up, damage the rest of your army, are notoriously unreliable as Anti-Tank, but are still forgivably awesome which is saying something!  It's the greatest weapon in the Ork arsenal for attacking Heavy Infantry due to its AP and statistical average of Str7, you just have to watch out for doubles (or pray for double 6s).  In my experience he's best placed in a defensible location in your Deployment Zone with a good LoS of the battlefield and supported by a unit of 10-19 Grots for a bullet shield.  In my opinion the WORST thing you can do is put the Mek around Lootas, as when he blows up he's going to take that 200ish point unit with him.

Zagstrukk, & 10 Storm boyz
Stormboyz are a very interesting unit.  They have a great bonus which applies each time you use their Rokkitpacks which make them move faster than any other Jump Infantry at the expense of a 1/6 chance of loosing a guy, and I think benefited from 6th, but there is a big reason why they still aren't commonly seen in Ork Armies, they are point heavy.  I know when one first looks through the codex they don't seem that way, but really they are.  A unit of 10 will be taken down quite quickly, and a unit of 20 costs around 1/6th of your available points for this tourney. 

With Zagstrukk you are forced to use Storm Boyz as Deep Strikers, which besides from knocking out D3 boyz can be dangerous if you're notoriously unlucky with Deep Strike like I am.  That said with Zag, they are the only unit I can think of that can assault from Deep Strike, which is where they would shine.  I think the best bet would be to drop them down as a distraction device with the bonus of possibly taking out enemy long range infantry support units like Devastators/Havocs or at the very least prevent them from shooting for a turn.  I would personally count a Zagstrukk unit as casualties before the game starts, as really they are a suicide unit, but in making that suicide run you can disrupt your opponent's plans and if you're lucky distract him for a turn while the rest of your army advances.

20 Slugga Boys
Ah the good old Slugga boy.  There used to be a long debate on Sluggas v. Shootas, for the most part 6th as really put that one to bed with most players advocating the Shoota due to their prowess at Overwatch.  In fact I recently overheard a conversation at an LGS where someone was claiming Shootas were broken (yet another grumpy SMurf player loosing to the greenskins, it makes me smile).

But Sluggas still have their place!  I personally have really fallen for the footslogger ways the past few years (in my "old" age I'm becoming a Snakebite), and for footslogging my experience as really taught a balanced approach of Shootas and Sluggas is best.  You want the Sluggas to run out and assault and/or act as a distraction for Shootas who can take a hill and hold it (provided of course that hill is large and your opponent doesn't have massive amounts of pieplates and flame templates.)

At your point level my strongest advice would be 4-6 mobz of 30 boyz (either Shoota or Slugga) with a Nob (I cannot stress the importance of a Bosspole Nob in every mob) if you are planning to Footslogg.  Footsloggers need a lot of extra bodies to absorb the casualties and still be effective when they hit the enemy's front lines.  If you're planning on Trukks then Gork/Mork help you, hull points have made the Trukks too fragile in my book, especially when a solitary Trukk mob doesn't stand much chance against a target.  Battlewagons are another option to transport a contingent, and not a bad one at that, but you're limited on both the mobz numbers and the number of wagons you can take.

So that's some input on what you have.  The rest of this is what you could do...

Since you're grabbing IA8 and Forgeworld accessibility you have a number of great options!  If you're feeling Lucky a Dreadmob can be great fun, although Hull Points do screw over the army a bit.  Still though the Dreadmob list is the best way to field Dreads as mobz instead of single units, and larger units of Kans (in my experience Dreads are best with 4 DCCWs making them high threat bulletmagnets, and Kans are best with Rokkitz or Grotzookas).  The Dreadmob list does lack a Warboss option, but has a Painboss which can really upgrade the mandatory Spanna units.  One of the great possibilities with the Dreadmob list is actually an "aerial" attack with Warkoptas.  It may not be ultra effective as an army, but I think it'd be fun for an Ork version of an IG Valkyre drop force.

But beyond using the armylist IA8 has the whole kit for all of Forgeworld models, as well as grant access to the Kustom Stompa.  You probably would want to find out if you can take Superheavies or what the maximum allowance of them in this event.  If you have access to one (which at the point level of 1750 I'd imagine a max of 1), then you have the tough choice between a Kustom Stompa, Kustom Battlefortress, a Squiggoth, a Killtank, or the mighty BlastaBomma.  Each of which are pretty awesome in their own right and point heavy to the nth degree. 

More reasonable Forgeworld styled stuff in the non Superheavy category that you might want to consider will be Mekboy Junkas, Mega/Meka Dreads, Big Trakks, Guntrukks, and Grot Bomm Launchas.  Each have their own merits which at the moment time precludes me from listing (as well as the fact that I've probably rambled on a bit too much at this point anyway).

Ultimately I would suggest reading the Ork codex and IA8 when you get it and figure out what kind of Ork army you want.  The most common variations are: Footsloggers, Trukk heavy KoS (Kult of Speed), Bike heavy KoS, DeffWing (Ork version of Dark Angels Deathwing), Battlewagon Blitz (lots of mounted Wagons), Kanwall (lots of Walkers, IA8 Dreadmob is great for this army type), and hybrids.  I'm sure there's a variant I'm forgetting, but nevertheless Orks have lots of viable options for effective as well as fun armies.  Figure out what fits your playstyle, and the boards here can be a great resource for you in helping you better define and improve your army.

Truly beautiful work. That's the kind of stuff that makes a true mekanik cry tears of joy.
OD, you once again prove that your are still the freakin Da Vinci of plasticard

Offline Baron Wastelands

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Re: Da Road to 40KO 2013
« Reply #2 on: April 6, 2013, 12:57:10 PM »
That gives me somewhat just over 5 months.... 5 months to build, buy and paint an entire Ork army for use in this tournament.

Which has more pressure on it in those 5 months? Your wallet or your time? As OD says, you could have 200+ footslogging boys with a few extra toys, which is certainly one of the more competitive options these days; but that's a lot to paint in the time, and not cheap, exactly; though with ebay, etc., it is doable - remember that fantasy orc bodies (and legs) are compatible. I'd love to recommend sluggas, but I agree with OD that shootas have a clear edge in 6th.

If money is no object but you're worried about painting everything in time, I'd be tempted to go for deffwing - several units of meganobz, 2 led by warbosses to make them troops, backed by a couple of kanz or riding in battlewagons; but at present those meganobz will cost a fortune.

What I have painted and would like to use... Warboss, Bik Mek, Zagstrukk, 10 Storm boyz, 20 Slugga Boys.  I intend to make a big unit of Ard Boyz but other than that I am entirely without restrictions and open to all thoughts.

If on the other hand you have some time and some money, but not vast amounts of either, I'd pick some key units and add to what you've got. I'd seek a way to make your warboss mobile, and a big mek with a KFF is still handy in vehicles if you're not going full footslogging. 20 slugga boyz fit snuggly in a Battlewagon, which (if it's not the only one), can be a good option too.

Comparatively high (points) cost units that are still useful and/or versatile (in my opinion, anyway!) are:

Nob bikers (Great unit, painboy and big choppas essential - 5 or 6 with a biker boss can survive obscene amounts. Don't overdo the power klaws - I find 2 is generally enough, including the warboss'. Arguably our most competitive option at the moment.)

Flash gitz (Perhaps it's the bad moon in me, but I like these guys even more in 6th. Put them in a dakka battlewagon as a fire platform, and they can even have a pop at flyers if they have to.)

Burnaz & Lootaz (Burnaz are best with a battlewagon, I think; Lootaz are an excellent choice in 6th; and again, the boxes contain enough bits to make 4 of both, if you can find extra bodies (& legs)).

Only one other comment from what you write - I would avoid a large squad of 'ard boyz; I run a unit of 12 in a trukk, and they rarely outperform other trukk units, but they cost considerably more; there's just too much out there which will make their extra save redundant anyway. Fluff is nice, but it's not the difference of, say, big 'uns in fantasy.

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Re: Da Road to 40KO 2013
« Reply #3 on: April 6, 2013, 01:22:33 PM »
First let me welcome you to the best Ork forum on the WWW. I invite you to join the Way of The Waagh. Just go to THIS LINK and post a reply that you would like to join.

Now on to your list building. I am a certified card carrying member of the Kult (Kult of Speed) and am more than willing to be a proselytizer.  ;D

I recommend a "core" of four to six truck loads of boys. Each unit of 12 truck boys should have a nob with power klaw and boss pole. When assaulting enemy units always try to have two units assault simultaneously, unless it is a small unit that the orks outnumber and can beat up easily (like scouts). Do not waste points on grenades, as with the low initiative of orks you are usually swinging last anyway. Now the argument of slugga vs shoota, slugga boys have an extra attack over the shoota boys, but the shoota boys have better range and twice the amount of shooting. Sure you can only snap fire if the truck moves too far, but it is a minor loss of ballistic skill so go for it.

The trucks they ride in should have red paint, reinforced ram, and boarding plank. The boarding plank is great for attacking vehicles without having to dismount, especially enemy walkers who do not get to strike back (see the FAQ). This one trick brings out much rule looking upping and mewling, especially from blood angel players with death company dreads, really good stuff!  8) The ram is so you can go through terrain instead of around it, and in the event you have an empty truck with nothing better to do, it can tank shock/ram, although this is usually suicidal it is great fun to ram a land raider and cause damage. The red paint gives you that extra inch of movement, this will allow you to move almost clear across the table (with flat out move that also adds an inch) in one turn.

There is a disagreement that with the new edition that rockit buggies are less valuable, but I find that the twin link rockit is still effective, and with the new edition allowing you to leave disable buggies behind you no longer have to worry about the loss of shooting effectiveness. So I highly recommend at least a squad of three.

Tank Bustas are good this edition, I recommend a full size unit of them. Fifteen rockits even snap firing will shoot down most flyers, and stand a good chance of glancing to death land raiders and monoliths. Their tank busta bombs are good stuff, read the codex and you will see they are some mighty effective weapons, good for blowing up everything armor.

My favorite unit is the burna boys. See The Burna Boy Tactica:  This Link

Now on to the battle wagons for the tank bustas and burna boys. I use four rockits, death rollas, red paint, and grot riggers. The four rockits are going to be snap firing every turn you move (unless you go slow which is anathema to KOS) but it is a minor loss of BS and you still stand a chance of hitting stuff. The death rolla is one of the best anti armor devices the orks have, often ramming and killing land raiders easily, not to mention going through rhinos and other such light armor. They are great for taking out walkers as dreads cannot death or glory. On the turns your not ramming stuff, you are moving your BWs to get great position for your tank bustas or burna boys.

Now on to flyers, some here love the dakka jet, however mine must be cursed as it has yet to do any real damage to the enemy and usually gets shot down the turn it comes on the board. However, I have had some good results with the burna bomma, take four to six of the missiles depending on your points, and make those lonely fiery bombing runs, good stuff. I could tell you all the good stuff my burna bomma has done but would probably hit the character limit of this post.

Another favorite of mine is the Green Baron. For a detailed tactica on the green baron go HERE
While a suicide unit, it does enough damage from time to time to keep him in my list. Sure some games he gives my opponent a VP with no return, and other games he gets behind those pesky IG big gun tanks and takes out the squadron or keeps them from pounding on my others units as they zoom across the board.

Lastly but not least is my HQ. Now, I only use the big mek with KFF as mentioned in the burna boy tactica. Cheaper than most other armies HQs and a bit more expendable. I run him with the burna boys and if/when they get into combat he accepts any uber character challenges so that the burna boys can shred the unit that they are stuck in with. Not to mention that NOBODY in their sane mind charges a burna boy unit. If they do, they only do it once and then cry cheese.  :D

I hope I have attracted you a bit towards the KOS side. As a side note and warning: Orks are addictive! Once you start you will be hooked, and the longer you play them the harder it is to break away. A sure sign of the addiction is OIADD (ork induced attention deficit disorder) where you will be thinking of ork lists at work, new models when driving, painting boys when you should be mowing the lawn, inventing new tactics while trying to go to sleep, and so on. So run away now, or be prepared to become addicted.

If you hang around here long enough you will soon learn the good things of life: To krump your enemy, to see them flee before you, and hear the lamentations of their players.
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Offline -V-

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Re: Da Road to 40KO 2013
« Reply #4 on: April 6, 2013, 05:42:59 PM »
DW Skeet Ive been a member of WotW for quite a while now...  ;) just a quiet Kunning Orkses biding my time in da shadowz.

Anyways I've always had a bit of a Goff mind set... krumpin, no nonsense proper, double ard bastard orks! Red paintjobs is only for dem Fly Boyz! Black is good!

Ive ben having a little think and this is the direction im starting to think.  A balance between big mobs of Boyz footslogging with Kanz and Dreadz backing up.  First thoughts...

Boss PK, Eavy armour
10 Nobz eavy armour
3 full mobs (2 shoota boyz 1 Slugga)
6 Kans
2 Dreads
Battle Wagon
StormBoyz for distraktin stuff

(I want some Mega Nobz I think... not sure yet) That would mean probably upgrading the warboss to mega armour and I dont have a model or konversion in mind for that.... Ive heard good things of squads of these in trukks zooming forwards to cause a painful nuisance of themselves.

Like the idea of a DakkaJet to take care of flyers.. but then again with FW allowed a couple of big trakks with flakk guns might do better?  Not sure

As you can see this is a very rough starting point but hoping to develop a more coherant idea soon

Offline -V-

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Re: Da Road to 40KO 2013
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2013, 05:25:16 PM »
I have a list Id like to show for some advice, guidance, thoughts oppinions etc etc.

Based on a list I ran today with very very little success against Oinks shiney new Tau codex now with extra dakka.  It showed promise but through a combination of a) inexperience and b) crucial difficult terrain and run rolls all going horribly wrong for me meant that my entire army could be picked off before it got to combat... sigh!

Oh well Here is the sort of list I think i'd like to run...

Big Mek, KFF, Eavy Armour 90

Big Mek Shokk Attack Gun, Eavy Armour 100

30 Shoota Boyz, 3 rokkit launchers, Nob Bosspole, Big Choppa, eavy armour 235

30 Shoota Boyz, 3 rokkit launchers, Nob Bosspole, Big Choppa, eavy armour 235

30 Slugga Boyz, 3 big shootas, Nob Bosspole, power klaw, eavy armour 240

1 Deff Dread, DCCW, Skorcha 95

1 Deffdread DCCW Skorcha 95

3 Killa Kanz Rokkit Launchers 105

3 Killa Kanz Rokkit Launchers 105

1 Dakka Jet, Extra Supershoota, Fighter Ace 130

1 Dakka Jet, Extra Supershoota, fighter Ace 130

Total 1650

The tournament is a 1750 point limit so I have 100 points that im not sure what to do with?  Thoughts and help please?

Offline Ork E Nuff

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Re: Da Road to 40KO 2013
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2013, 12:01:40 PM »
V:  I like your list.  You've balanced some footsloggin' with some hard hittin' units, air support, and leadership.  I support alot of what other, more sagely advisors have stated, except for this one thing:  If you can scrap the points together, both by using the 100 pts left over and maybe fiddling with a unit here or there; I'd turn your regular sluggas into 'ard boyz.  I've regularly used them in all sorts of conflicts.  Not because they were the most tactically sound unit, but because they have that better than average armor save for orks.  A "4" is nothing to sneeze at in a force that regularly has to get a "6" or nothing.  some will say that it's not worth the sacrifice to other units, that they don't really perform any better, blah blah blah...You can throw a 30 ork squad at a foe's 10 man squad and still have the bulk of your force intact, and not just because you outnumber them.  Your saving throw is equal to any IG unit in carapace (sp?) armor orSM scouts...what's not to like?

Anyway, I'm climbing off my soapbox now...just my two teef..
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Offline angel of death 007

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Re: Da Road to 40KO 2013
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2013, 12:03:45 PM »
Easiest way would be to just add another deff dread for the extra points.  Although a kan wall army is not what it used to be you will find that kans get knocked out pretty easily with their low HP's. 

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Re: Da Road to 40KO 2013
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2013, 06:54:30 PM »
Hey -V-,

Given how the game went, have you considered some simple grots. The trouble you have is that your boys are your meat, and you want them to do your fighting... but this means that you need them to do your fighting AND your objective holding. At least one unit of grots could be a useful choice for sitting back on an objective whilst the boys run on ahead?


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