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Author Topic: Can wraiths work without whip coils?  (Read 3702 times)

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Offline Herm_777

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Can wraiths work without whip coils?
« on: December 3, 2012, 04:26:34 AM »
The nature of this post has changed. To read responses regarding the general effectiveness of whip coils and wraiths please skip ahead to response #9

Making a new list and feeling the penny pinching effects of nearing the point limit. I have 175 points left and was thinking of buying some wraiths. While it pretty awesome that I can get 5 wraiths for  the points I have left, I wouldn't be able to afford any whip coils. Is a naked 5 man squad viable or should I bite the bullet and drop a wraith so I can get some whip coils for the squad?

In a related question can a squad of 4 wraiths with 1 whip coil work? I wanted to get an extra stormtek but that only leaves enough points for 1 whip coil.


Thanks in advance for the help.
« Last Edit: December 5, 2012, 07:17:53 PM by Herm_777 »

Offline Galef

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Re: Can wraiths work without whip coils?
« Reply #1 on: December 3, 2012, 06:38:08 PM »
I use 6 vanilla Wraiths with my D-lord all the time and they are great.  I personally find whip-coils hard to use since they only get the most models in base contact after the enemies pile-in and attack.  So on the charge, only 2-3 models are ever affected.

Given the choice between 5 Wraith or 4 Wraiths w/ all whip coils, I would take the 5 everytime.
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Offline Herm_777

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Re: Can wraiths work without whip coils?
« Reply #2 on: December 3, 2012, 08:06:12 PM »
Hey Galef,

Thanks for the reply.

If I'm not using a D Lord are naked wraiths worth it? The wraiths will probably be on their own most of the time unless I see an advantage to veiling them with Obyron. Does this have an effect on your prior suggestion?

Offline Galef

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Re: Can wraiths work without whip coils?
« Reply #3 on: December 3, 2012, 09:42:17 PM »
Not really.  I prefer having the D-lord in the unit to give them Preferred Enemy, plus all the goodies the D-lord has himself.

5 Wraiths are a decently scary unit without him though.  Having Obyron with them on occasion will be pretty nice too.
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Offline nawari

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Re: Can wraiths work without whip coils?
« Reply #4 on: December 4, 2012, 12:54:33 AM »
my mate has 2 units of wraiths in his army. one with whip coils and one without. it always comes down to circumstance for the whip coils. like if you are fighting a MC and make it go last. but in general having more bodies is always (in my opinion) the best choice.

i'd go with the 5 naked wraithes.
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Offline Idaho

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Re: Can wraiths work without whip coils?
« Reply #5 on: December 4, 2012, 10:31:10 AM »
Their effectiveness sure is reduced, but when they work for you, Whip Coils will work big! Making a Bloodthirster or Keeper of Secrets strike last in combat with a unit of a minimum of S6 will make you smile and opponents cry!

Of course, if you need to cut some fat then Whip Coils should be first in line, but I mist say I've not been disappointed in my Wraiths and their Whip Coils.

Offline Herm_777

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Re: Can wraiths work without whip coils?
« Reply #6 on: December 4, 2012, 06:42:49 PM »
Thanks for the help guys!

It's good to know that there is a solid argument out there for keeping wraiths cheap. I've posted the question on several sites and have heard more support for naked wraiths. After I get a few games under my belt, I'm sure I'll figure out if I really need those coils or not.


cheers
« Last Edit: December 4, 2012, 06:48:56 PM by Herm_777 »

Offline Kaiju Senso

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Re: Can wraiths work without whip coils?
« Reply #7 on: December 4, 2012, 08:13:40 PM »
I try to keep my Whip Coils on everyone if at all possible. Sure you might only tangle up a few models from a long distance charge, but if you get stuck in combat, you have an even better chance at winning the next round in your Opponent's turn! This way you'll be able to move and assault again in your turn.

Offline Partninja

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Re: Can wraiths work without whip coils?
« Reply #8 on: December 4, 2012, 08:32:02 PM »
I tried naked, and with coils in many games. With such a small squad size, despite having multiple wounds and an invulnerable save I found the naked squad to not be very effective. Having most of the enemy squad attack last makes the small squad more durable and much more effective in combat.

If you are having trouble getting enough enemies in base-to-base, you need more practice or just need to be more aggressive with them (getting them closer faster).

At least put coils on three of them. Not knowing the rest of your list it may be possible to squeeze out the points.

Offline Herm_777

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Re: Can wraiths work without whip coils?
« Reply #9 on: December 5, 2012, 03:18:11 AM »
 Thanks for all of your suggestions everyone. Looking back on my various posts, it turns out that the persons that have responded to my post are very split on the matter. Since I have no idea what to do, i've posted my army list in a new thread for your review.

 Perhaps this thread can be used to address the issue of whip coils more generally as opposed to just satisfying my individual needs? I doubt that I'll be the last to ask this question.

Here are a few questions to get things started,

1) what is the smallest number of wraiths that can be taken yet still be effective with or without coils?

2) is there an optimal ratio for equipping whip coils?


 

Offline Idaho

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Re: Can wraiths work without whip coils?
« Reply #10 on: December 5, 2012, 10:43:12 AM »
I go 3 Whip Coils, 2 standard Wraiths. I find any less than 4 models in the unit and you start to become vulnerable to fire on the way in.

Offline Kaiju Senso

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Re: Can wraiths work without whip coils?
« Reply #11 on: December 5, 2012, 06:54:23 PM »
Smallest squad size I tried was in an army with 2 units of 3 Wraiths, all with Whip Coils. There was one Destroyer Lord attached to one of the squads (actually moved between them when necessary.) They did ok but didn't have quite the power necessary to deal with a large marine squad effectively.

Small squads need to serve a different purpose then large. I haven't quite worked out the details for small squads yet (because large ones can be so effective!) but I'm in the process of it and will post my thoughts on the matter at a later date.

Offline Herm_777

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Re: Can wraiths work without whip coils?
« Reply #12 on: December 5, 2012, 07:20:35 PM »
What constitutes a large squad in your opinion Kaiju? Obviously 6 but what about 5? I assume 4 models meets the definition of  a smaller squad.

Offline Kaiju Senso

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Re: Can wraiths work without whip coils?
« Reply #13 on: December 5, 2012, 10:01:07 PM »
5-6 is a large squad and up to 3 is a small squad in my eyes. I'd think 4 models is still on the larger side because it has plenty of wounds and attacks. With an attached Destroyer Lord and whip coils, 4 models can still get the job done against medium powerful melee units.

Offline Herm_777

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Re: Can wraiths work without whip coils?
« Reply #14 on: December 6, 2012, 02:06:15 AM »
Interesting. Kaiju, you mentioned that with a destroyer lord a 4 man wraith can take on medium combat units. Does that mean without a Destroyer lord, a 4 man wraith squad is really only good for making a tar pit?     

Offline Idaho

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Re: Can wraiths work without whip coils?
« Reply #15 on: December 6, 2012, 04:02:34 AM »
I'm wholly in support of Kaiju Senso's opinion on Wraiths above.

To answer the last question; 4 Wraiths and a Destroyer Lord are still nasty but are more defensive than offensive against the heaviest armour. That's not to say they aren't any good in assault, just that you should look to shred infantry and troops choices as a priority first and shoot those Terminaters and Ork Nobz first!

I've experimented last night with 5 Wraiths and a pair of Destroyer Lords and I must say they were hideous to oppose! Bouncing wounds around the squad and carving through opponents; if you want a really powerful centre to your list you should look no further! The fire power they absorb alone is enough to protect your entire army.

I found 3 Whip Coils to 2 standard worked wonders.

 


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