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Author Topic: Why do people like Tesla?  (Read 4714 times)

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Offline FieryHammer

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Why do people like Tesla?
« on: November 6, 2012, 03:15:51 PM »
I'm not really a Necron player but I'm gaining interest so I've been reviewing the codex and checking out some of the posts here and I've noticed something I'm not understanding.  Why do so many people like to take Tesla Carbines on Immortals rather than the Guass Blaster?

I could understand it before 6th ed but now, I don't get it.  They are the same strength but the blaster has better AP and can glance vehicles.  At close range it puts out double the shots of the carbine. 

@24" vs. MEQ
Guass blaster= 1.47 unsaved wounds
Tesla= (assuming 1 roll of 6) 1.92 unsaved wounds
Tesla= (assuming 2 rolls of 6) 2.36 unsaved wounds

@12" vs. MEQ
Guass blaster= 2.95 unsaved wounds
Tesla= (assuming 1 roll of 6) 1.92 unsaved wounds
Tesla= (assuming 2 rolls of 6) 2.36 unsaved wounds

@24" vs. T3, Armor 4+                                                      @24" vs. T3, Armor 5+
Guass blaster= 5.52 unsaved wounds                             Guass blaster= 5.52 unsaved wounds
Tesla= (assuming 1 roll of 6) 3.59 unsaved wounds         Tesla= (assuming 1 roll of 6) 4.78 unsaved wounds 
Tesla= (assuming 2 rolls of 6) 4.42 unsaved wounds       Tesla= (assuming 2 rolls of 6) 5.89 unsaved wounds

@12" vs. T3, Armor 4+                                                       @24" vs. T3, Armor 5+
Guass blaster= 11.05 unsaved wounds                            Guass blaster= 11.05 unsaved wounds
Tesla= (assuming 1 roll of 6) 3.59 unsaved wounds         Tesla= (assuming 1 roll of 6) 4.78 unsaved wounds
Tesla= (assuming 2 rolls of 6) 4.42 unsaved wounds       Tesla= (assuming 2 rolls of 6) 5.89 unsaved wounds

By the numbers the tesla is slightly better at range vs. MEQs but slighlty worse than the blaster vs. weaker armor types.  At close range the blaster is far superior.  Added with the versatility of being able to target vehicles, why then are people taking tesla?  Are people charging with Immortals? Or am I missing something.

 

Offline JusticeCetin

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Re: Why do people like Tesla?
« Reply #1 on: November 6, 2012, 06:04:15 PM »
Overwatch!  That is a big reason for Tesla being useful on immortals.  Do the math again, assuming you can only roll 6s to hit. 

10 immortals, 10 shots, 1.67 6s, 5 hits

10 immortals, 20 shots 3.33 6s, 3.33 Hits

If you are using the Immortals in a defensive position, then tesla just deals a few extra overwatch wounds, which can prevent an asault.  Add a lord with gauntlet of Fire to that unit, and you have a durable objective holder. Give him a Res Orb, and it will take alot of fire to bring down you objective holder.

Immortals arent meant to die.  You are supposed to have warriors for hte sucicde missions, they go after Land riaders, Immortals hold objectives, and therefore win games. 

While Gauss is nice, Necrons have so much reliable AT, that having the ability to put down a couple of Gaunts with overwatch can allow the immortals to win a combat. 
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Offline enlargingcloud

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Re: Why do people like Tesla?
« Reply #2 on: November 6, 2012, 06:13:36 PM »
It could also be noted that few players are willing to tear apart models for configurations that are not significantly better.

Offline Partninja

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Re: Why do people like Tesla?
« Reply #3 on: November 6, 2012, 06:20:02 PM »
It's really going to depend on your gaming group, and your specific list.

I prefer the gauss blasters myself for the AP value (I face Nids, DE, and Orks often). I also run a mostly infantry list with a large squad of 20 warriors, and 2-3 squads of immortals. I like having them all be able to glance armor and still shoot infantry well. They also are generally close enough to the enemy anyway so with rapid fire it usually evens out. I dislike having to rely on small chances to make units perform well (same reason I dislike sniper units).

Offline FieryHammer

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Re: Why do people like Tesla?
« Reply #4 on: November 6, 2012, 11:26:28 PM »
@ Justice

I had considered the effects of overwatch but I think that it is quite negligible.  Overwatch is vastly overated IMO.  It is a nice benefit but not a game changer when determining weapon choice.  Your not likely to weaken a unit much before CC and your best hope is to have your enemy stop short but that is it.  Also, when you play out the numbers you suggest against armor values the results narrow. 

5 hits Tesla
vs. MEQ= 1.1
vs. T3 Armor 4+= 2.07
vs. T3 Armor 5+= 2.76

3.33 hits blaster
vs. MEQ= .73
vs. T3 Armor 4+= 1.38
vs. T3 Armor 5+= 1.38

As you can see the Tesla is better in overwatch but not by much while the blaster is significantly better at close range firing.  I suppose though if you play primarily MEQ or are lucky with the dice rolls the Tesla may have some appeal but I think the Blaster is clearly the better choice in an all comers style list.

Offline JusticeCetin

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Re: Why do people like Tesla?
« Reply #5 on: November 7, 2012, 12:16:42 AM »
An all comers style list should have ways to deal with everything.

Since warriors cannot get tesla, but can get gauss, why would you then give the same gun to immortals? 

I tried to answer your question, if you don't like my answer fine, but you shouldn't post a question with the intention of arguing with the answer
Regarding my original post, if you use tesla on immortals on home objectives, the superior damage at 24'' makes it more valueable.  If you factor Overwatch, that makes it more powerful, there are several occasions where this is the case.  Also, if you shoot at a Ork Dakkajet, the Tesla will be far superior. 
these are the reasons why i see tesla. 
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Offline starstrider

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Re: Why do people like Tesla?
« Reply #6 on: November 7, 2012, 02:07:54 AM »
Quote
I tried to answer your question, if you don't like my answer fine, but you shouldn't post a question with the intention of arguing with the answer
No disrespect intended, but I don't think that's necessarily true... (Politely) arguing about hypotheticals can be a great way of drawing out everyone's opinion and getting more information, leading to everyone being able to make a more informed decision in the end. If he thinks he thinks something is wrong with your logic (or just doesn't get it), there's nothing wrong with bringing that up nicely.

Offline Shas'Oink

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Re: Why do people like Tesla?
« Reply #7 on: November 7, 2012, 07:26:28 AM »
The point is that you calculated for an "assumed" number of 6s. The point with Tesla is that you weigh up the slight reduction in general capability with the POTENTIAL that you could roll far more than average number of 6s.

Every now and then you might roll twice as many as usual... or if you are particularly lucky you may even somehow manage to roll a whole handful of 6s!!!

That is the trouble with statistics, they can only show you the raw numbers - and do not take into account the potential for damage.

Perhaps you should look at minimum and maximum damage ranges. Then you can look at how an average damage output might look, but ultimately the decision will be based on your willingness to "take the chance".

Also, don't just limit yourself to overwatch, think about when firing at flyers... only sixes there too... this is one of the reasons why annihilation barges are a pretty awesome AA platform.

Offline Wyrmnax

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Re: Why do people like Tesla?
« Reply #8 on: November 7, 2012, 08:45:05 AM »
By the numbers the tesla is slightly better at range vs. MEQs but slighlty worse than the blaster vs. weaker armor types.  At close range the blaster is far superior.  Added with the versatility of being able to target vehicles, why then are people taking tesla?  Are people charging with Immortals? Or am I missing something.

Exactly the opposite.

Assuming VS marines, tesla is better at long range.

As your immortals are bad in melee, and that I2 can get them swept advanced like any necron, you want to keep them outside of charge range as long as possible.

Blasters would be the better weapons if people were charging in with immortals.

Also, one more thing to note - the changes to rapid fire made the blaster relevant. Last edition, tesla was almost always better simply because it could keep firing while mobile at long range and blasters couldnt.

Offline FieryHammer

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Re: Why do people like Tesla?
« Reply #9 on: November 7, 2012, 12:04:12 PM »
Every now and then you might roll twice as many as usual... or if you are particularly lucky you may even somehow manage to roll a whole handful of 6s!!!

Or you could roll none.  I certainly understand the luck factor and its given potential but in the long run you can expect the statistics to hold true.  If you like the luck factor, and sometimes I do, I understand the reasoning for taking tesla.  However, I have found that usually, at least on these boards, people prefer more certainty in making their lists.  Maybe Necron players are different.

Also, don't just limit yourself to overwatch, think about when firing at flyers... only sixes there too... this is one of the reasons why annihilation barges are a pretty awesome AA platform.

Flyers are another story.  Against FMCs the tesla is clearly more effective for grounding purposes but I wouldn't waste firing at most Flying vehicles with either gun.  Heavier tesla weapons like the cannon and especially the destructor make great sense there.

Also, one more thing to note - the changes to rapid fire made the blaster relevant. Last edition, tesla was almost always better simply because it could keep firing while mobile at long range and blasters couldnt.

I agree and in 5th, I'd take tesla but I am talking 6th now.

Since warriors cannot get tesla, but can get gauss, why would you then give the same gun to immortals? 

I tried to answer your question, if you don't like my answer fine, but you shouldn't post a question with the intention of arguing with the answer 

Well the guass blaster is significantly better than the flayer for one.  For two, if the blaster is superior than the carbine for the same price I take what is superior.

Justice you don't like having your ideas challenged much.  I asked the question to see if I could be persuaded. 

The argument seems to me that the carbine has more potential but is not as effective on average, except at 24" vs. marines. 

Offline Partninja

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Re: Why do people like Tesla?
« Reply #10 on: November 7, 2012, 03:07:28 PM »
An all comers style list should have ways to deal with everything.

Since warriors cannot get tesla, but can get gauss, why would you then give the same gun to immortals? 

I tried to answer your question, if you don't like my answer fine, but you shouldn't post a question with the intention of arguing with the answer
Regarding my original post, if you use tesla on immortals on home objectives, the superior damage at 24'' makes it more valueable.  If you factor Overwatch, that makes it more powerful, there are several occasions where this is the case.  Also, if you shoot at a Ork Dakkajet, the Tesla will be far superior. 
these are the reasons why i see tesla.

In my codex blasters have better strength, AP, and on a model with a better armor save. Quite different for only a bit more points.

Offline zestyMOO

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Re: Why do people like Tesla?
« Reply #11 on: February 2, 2013, 09:34:23 PM »
If you are firing from more than 12" then you will usually get more hits with tesla.I play against tyranids a lot.I shoot from around 24" then run back so they can't assault.Since i am never within 12" tesla works far better for me.

Offline Kaiju Senso

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Re: Why do people like Tesla?
« Reply #12 on: February 3, 2013, 12:13:16 PM »
[mod]It has been 3 months since the last post in this thread. Unless something ground breaking is discovered on the matter, per Forum Rules this thread has been long dead and should stay that way.[/mod]

 


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