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new chaos dex dissapointments

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new chaos dex dissapointments
« on: October 6, 2012, 11:20:47 PM »
 

Bearer of the Word

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so..what does everyone think of the new dex? i must say im dissapointed. heres some thoughts

-only rhino and landraiders as dedicated transports. im not saying that chaos should have dreadclaws and razorbacks since that would just make them different colored marines. i feel GW should have added something extra, such as the option for a squad to buy a deepstrike option via sorcery or something.

-nothing special about weapons. i was kinda hoping for an extensive list of daemonic tech weapons kinda like the dark eldar dex. you figured that they would have picked up a thing or 2 after 10,000 years in the warp, but no....they still use boaring old reaper autocannons.

-everyone got downgraded in general ahem obliterators

-on the bright side, the new pics look amazing! specially like the one of huron and ahriman. too bad there's no new minis of them.....

any thoughts?
« Last Edit: October 6, 2012, 11:21:54 PM by The Tyrants Leigon »
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Re: new chaos dex dissapointments
« Reply #1 on: October 7, 2012, 12:25:18 AM »
 

MortVader83

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 You have to keep in mind that, fluffwise, these guys are set in their ways. I knew we wouldn't get Dreadclaws or something like a SR or RB. If anything I half expect to see FW start making Stormbirds(I think that's what they are called) from the Crusade era for the new HH novels. That and many Chapters/ warbands have been reduced to scavenging or stealing most resources like vehicles, weapons, and ammo from the Imperium. Plus, the bolter, chainsword, and RACs are still effective and efficient weapons. As for 'daemon tech' have you seen the three new daemon engines? I'd say those qualify. Other strange new weapons can be discounted as most Traitor marines are even more xenophobic than their loyalist cousins.

 Downgraded? I can't think of any units that got worse at all. If anything Oblits are even better, CSM are cheaper, and Raptors now seem viable. Slaanesh bikers? Yes please. The Princes aren't as silly cheap as they used to be, but have a lot more options that can make them more flexible.

 I am slightly disappointed by the lack of a new special character. Was hoping Cypher would return, as be'd been a badass with Gunslinger. That and I'm tired of just running mine as a lord lol.
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Re: new chaos dex dissapointments
« Reply #2 on: October 7, 2012, 12:43:00 AM »
 

Bearer of the Word

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was sorta hoping for more different options for the marine squads. oh well. just hoping that with the new WD, they are planning to add some nice things to chaos. and yes! Cypher would have been awesome. and i just picked up that there are no new special characters, back to sad now :(
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Re: new chaos dex dissapointments
« Reply #3 on: October 7, 2012, 01:08:17 AM »
 

Muffin

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I hoped to be able to run a more Legion Specific army through the use of options in HQ; similar to SMurfs and their codex.
Stuff like Alpha Legion CSM and Chosen can Infiltrate, Iron Warriors having access to more Dred's and Daemon Engines ect...

Atleast they fixed our Characters after that Errata. Kharn is once again a viable choice and I'm really liking the look of Huron. It's just ashame there's no Cypher (allready mentioned) and Doom Rider.
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Re: new chaos dex dissapointments
« Reply #4 on: October 7, 2012, 01:23:14 AM »
 

MortVader83

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 Play a dozen or so games with the new codex before getting too sad. The new Kharn and Abbodon entries look very promising, same with Lords and DPs.

 I wouldn't hold my breathe on WD having anything new for them besides new models if/when the second wave is released. I'm going to work on making a data sheet for Cypher for 'fun' play against my bro's DA, as I am tired of my favorited character from the past no longer existing officially.

 Imho I think it's well written and balanced while still having the ability to go toe-to-toe with any Matt Ward codex. I'm going to give it a few weeks to get games in before passing my full judgement, but I think I see some potential here.
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Re: new chaos dex dissapointments
« Reply #5 on: October 7, 2012, 05:21:37 AM »
 

WisdomLS

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If you like cypher then take a look at these leaked rules for him, look legit.

Faeit 212: Warhammer 40k News and Rumors: Cypher Returns: Leak?

Back to main topic, I really like the new dex  :D

Seems well rounded, I like that no unit stands out as overpowered and that each unit get a huge choice of upgrades.

was sorta hoping for more different options for the marine squads. oh well. just hoping that with the new WD, they are planning to add some nice things to chaos. and yes! Cypher would have been awesome. and i just picked up that there are no new special characters, back to sad now :(


Are you kidding  :o Chaos marine squads have more options and builds than nearly any other unit in the game (maybe only henchmen are more versatile), you can make them assaulty, survivable, heavy weapons, double special weapons, large squad, small squad etr....

My only gripe is I think the thousand sons have got a bit shafted and I was really hoping to field some of them but they really lack options and S&P really kicks them in the balls for their price :(

The special characters are all pretty interesting and useful, kharn is a beast and huron is looking good as a counts as Alpha legion lord.
 

Re: new chaos dex dissapointments
« Reply #6 on: October 7, 2012, 05:43:27 AM »
 

Idaho

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Isn't that the page for Codex Chaos in 2nd edition? Look at the stats; Strength and Toughness 5 was the stable for Captains in 2nd edition, as was the rest of the stat line.

Anyway, yes the new Codex is great, but there is still a particular problem GW haven't changed direction on that persists in this Codex and by extention following Codex books for 6th edition, and that is the lack of army variant options. GW hasn't seemed to have caught on that the old Legion and Chapter Trait rules were POPULAR and players want a return to those days, instead they persist on forcing players into a Codex that can do a wide range of things in an unfocussed manner in the belief that consumers will buy more instead of just stuff for "their faction".

However, what seems to be forgotten is players would more often than not choose a faction, buy and paint it one way, then choose another faction and buy the other stuff and paint it another way.
 

Re: new chaos dex dissapointments
« Reply #7 on: October 7, 2012, 08:30:48 AM »
 

Vizier

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I've scanned the new Codex, can't say I've digested it in detail.

I don't see any obvious exceptional or OP units.  Cautionary note though, I'm not a hero hammer/deathstar type player and it seems a lot of the special rules etc... is oriented towards pimping out the heroes while units are mediocre.  So there may be some combination/build that creates an OP hero that I'm just not seeing yet.

The special ability "Veterans of the Long War" has to be purchased, it doesn't come built in like ATSKNF.  It doesn't really do much to increase the power of the Codex.  It seems to be there to adjust the Meta of the game which has been out of whack because of the OP GK and SW codices.  However, since it only grants +1L (in a army with lots of fearless) and an occasional first round CC miss re-roll, I don't see it actually doing much to change the Meta. 

The codex is certainly not strong enough to allow CSM to dominate the way GK and SW have in the past.  And, IMO, it looks rather mediocre or even weak.  Certainly not what we CSM players hoped for, though it may be good for the game if other forthcoming codices are as well balanced (I'll believe it when I see it).

I was hoping for a really strong codex to balance the weakness of my other army - Tyranids. 

Post Merge: October  7, 2012, 09:05:39 AM
In the future, please use the modify button. Double posting is against the forum rules, and for that reason, the system merged your posts.


 Downgraded? I can't think of any units that got worse at all. If anything Oblits are even better, CSM are cheaper, and Raptors now seem viable. Slaanesh bikers? Yes please. The Princes aren't as silly cheap as they used to be, but have a lot more options that can make them more flexible.

The across the board Leadership hit means that most units that look cheaper aren't really.  Though many units seem to have some cheaper weapons options.  Depending on how you build the unit they could be more expensive or slightly less than the old codex.

CSM lost their CC weapon, when you buy it back they become more expensive than the old vanilla CSM troops.  You save on the aspiring champion but for a 10 man unit the saving is minimal and you still have the Ld loss.

DP are certainly more expensive.  LR slightly more expensive for no improvement. 



« Last Edit: October 7, 2012, 09:05:39 AM by Vizier »
 

Re: new chaos dex dissapointments
« Reply #8 on: October 7, 2012, 10:24:00 AM »
 

Raktra (So long, I guess)

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Add in the CCW and they're the same price as they were in the previous book. Daemon Princes are more expensive because they've got a ridiculous statline boost. Obliterators are no different as far as I can tell, aside from getting the bonus of now causing Fear.

Feels like a lot of complaining over nothing really. Go back to the 4.5 Codex if you feel so badly done to.

Oh, wait.
 

Re: new chaos dex dissapointments
« Reply #9 on: October 7, 2012, 10:51:42 AM »
 

MortVader83

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 The loss of a CC weapon is no big deal, as there are now enough options there to make up for it. Besides, with the changes 6th ed has brought shooting is a tad more effective than charging into CC.

Add in the CCW and they're the same price as they were in the previous book. Daemon Princes are more expensive because they've got a ridiculous statline boost. Obliterators are no different as far as I can tell, aside from getting the bonus of now causing Fear.

Feels like a lot of complaining over nothing really. Go back to the 4.5 Codex if you feel so badly done to.

Oh, wait.

 My sentiments exactly. Let's give it some time.

« Last Edit: October 7, 2012, 02:18:39 PM by MortVader83 »
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Re: new chaos dex dissapointments
« Reply #10 on: October 7, 2012, 10:59:11 AM »
 

Locarno

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Quote
and yes! Cypher would have been awesome.

You may find him turning up via dark angels, though - they are suspected to be next.

Most of the legions are fine - cult legions get their respective cult troops, Iron warriors get warpsmiths (shatter defences representing artillery) and daemon siege engines, word bearers get the dark apostle and alpha legion get cultists to hide behind.

The one thing that's missing (which people will inevitably whine about) is infiltrating chaos marines. No offence, that got taken out for the same reason first-turn charges got dropped this time round; entirely infiltrating tactical armies are borderline horrific. I understand the annoyance that chaos marines now have no infiltrating units, though.

Quote
nothing special about weapons. i was kinda hoping for an extensive list of daemonic tech weapons kinda like the dark eldar dex. you figured that they would have picked up a thing or 2 after 10,000 years in the warp, but no....they still use boaring old reaper autocannons.
Sonic weapons, warp-poisoned knives, inferno bolts, icon of flame, more daemon engines than you can shake a pointy stick at, and someone's half-inched sauron's mace. I think they're not doing badly for non-conventional weapons.

Quote
The loss of a CC weapon is no big deal, as there are now enough options there to make up for it. Besides, with the changes 6th ed has brought shooting is a tad more effective than shooting.
It's not even a loss; it's an option; will you risk the reduced combat power in favour of more bolters?
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Re: new chaos dex dissapointments
« Reply #11 on: October 7, 2012, 01:54:42 PM »
 

Packetmaster

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Re: new chaos dex dissapointments
« Reply #12 on: October 7, 2012, 02:33:22 PM »
 

MortVader83

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@Locarno- Yes, I will actually. I will also try it with the CC weapon and from there I will decide which is more efficient.

 It is still too early to pass full judgement on the new codex. I will try every combination I can a few times before being fully disappointed with anything. Well except for the lack of Cypher for previpusly stated reasons. That I am disappointed by.
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Re: new chaos dex dissapointments
« Reply #13 on: October 7, 2012, 03:15:07 PM »
 

Unholy Worm

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It's strange that Axe of Blind Fury gives the bearer Rage, considering that mark of Khorne itself gives Rage...
Also the berяerkers don't seem to be that good in CC with only 2 attacks in profile.

Otherwise, the codex seems fine, some got a bit boosted, others downgraded, but no big change other than the 3 new Fiend units. Expected a bit more depth and variety.
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Re: new chaos dex dissapointments
« Reply #14 on: October 7, 2012, 03:41:01 PM »
 

Raktra (So long, I guess)

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Give it to a Daemon Prince, and you'll see where the benefit comes from.
 

Re: new chaos dex dissapointments
« Reply #15 on: October 7, 2012, 05:03:04 PM »
 

Mon'Tau

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It's strange that Axe of Blind Fury gives the bearer Rage, considering that mark of Khorne itself gives Rage...
Also the berяerkers don't seem to be that good in CC with only 2 attacks in profile.

Otherwise, the codex seems fine, some got a bit boosted, others downgraded, but no big change other than the 3 new Fiend units. Expected a bit more depth and variety.

Only 2 attacks in the profile, sure. But in what sane world do the Berzerkers not charge? With random charging now it may happen more often than before I will admit, but with smart play they should get the first say in things.

As well as that, we've got the Mark of Khorne. So even if they didn't charge, Counter Attack still gives them some more hurt to toss out there. Lets not forget about Rage when they do charge! These guys should almost always be getting 3, if not 4 attacks. Give the Champion a power weapon, and you've got a nasty little unit.

Your last point however, is my favourite thing about this book. The sheer depth available to explore is amazing, it's by no means an easy choice to pick a list.

The Diplomacy League - give it a look.

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Re: new chaos dex dissapointments
« Reply #16 on: October 7, 2012, 08:37:08 PM »
 

Packetmaster

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I just when throught it once, and I most admit that I am amaze. Good book, it will bring alot to chaos players. There is an unseen depth to the codex that is yet to be found. I 'll be looking foward to play against (or in team) with one of my friend dedicated to the dark gods. lol

 

Re: new chaos dex dissapointments
« Reply #17 on: October 7, 2012, 11:50:45 PM »
 

HitmanSteve

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Am I missing something in this dex or can I now 1 shot a demon prince with a wraithlord or railgun?  If so this has got to be a massive disappointment to chaos players.

 

Re: new chaos dex dissapointments
« Reply #18 on: October 7, 2012, 11:53:30 PM »
 

ReaperGrim

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I'm really digging the new codex.  There is a lot of variety in it and some cool new units and wargear.  Were all the things I wanted to see in it?  Nope.  But there was a lot of stuff I didn't even think about that I like a lot.  Especially the marks being able to be applied to units where we haven't been able to before.  Nurgle or Tzeentch oblits anyone???  I'm stoked about the Forgefiend too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Invuln save combined with It will not Die makes for a tough nut to crack while it rains death on the enemy.  My only dilema is how to kit it out.  I was thinking 2 Hades autocannons and the ectoplasma cannon mouth because it looks badass
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Re: new chaos dex dissapointments
« Reply #19 on: October 8, 2012, 02:38:20 AM »
 

Bearer of the Word

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hmm....maybe its not so bad. i was under the impression that the forgefiend's hades cannons were twin linked, but there not! thats 8 Str8 shots!!!! :) plus, it can take a ectoplasma canon IN ITS MOUTH
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