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Author Topic: Coming from 4th to 6th - 1750 points  (Read 1288 times)

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Offline Halollet

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Coming from 4th to 6th - 1750 points
« on: September 28, 2012, 12:33:45 AM »
I'm trying to bring my nids from 4th edition into 6th.  Yes, its been a while.  Going from leaping warriors and "no shooting phase for anyone! mwahahaha" to "I don't have any of the cool new models...." :(

But here we go.

Prime - 115
Bonesword and whip, Devourer, toxin sacs, regeneration

This is my commander because he has body guards and the traits will help him more then the flyrant.  This guy goes with the sword wielding warriors

Flyrant - 245
Bonesword and whip, Scything Talons, Toxin sacs, Toxic Miasma, Wings, biomancy powers

Flys and assaults, causes chaos, eat things, big bad annoying thing

Zoanthrope brood x2 - 120

Warriors x4 - 150
Scything talons, Deathspitters, venom cannon
Shoots stuff

Warriors x4 - 170
Pair of swords, devourers, barbed strangler
objective grabber with prime

Hormagaunts x18 - 108 screens shrikes

Termagaunts x18 - 90 screens Prime and holds objectives

Genestealer brood x8 - 112
Infiltrates close to enemy and then when is shot at, goes to ground to minimize casualties and then assaults with the rest of the army in later turns.  This helps me control my opponents actions

Shrikes x5 - 225
Rending Claws, Scything talons, Toxin Sacs
claws and toxin sacs to hit troops and tanks

Dakkafex - 190
TL Devourers x2
anti aircraft, glance to death things, move up with prime to step on something if needed

Carnifex - 185+40
Frag spines, bioplasma, mycetic spore
drops in and helps flyrant or just causes a big problem for something somewhere

If my tactics seem off or odd its because I'm not use to bugs shooting, but it seems more of a need now-a-days.

So is this a silly list or does it have some merit?
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Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

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Re: Coming from 4th to 6th - 1750 points
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2012, 04:24:00 AM »
First of all, welcome to 6th! Also, I have a question. How competitive does your local group play? Is there a high prevalence of netlists and tournament-style play, or is it more relaxed?

In general the list looks pretty good. I do have some small issues to bring up though.

First of all, you've miscalculated the point cost on your flyrant- he's actually 10 points more than you have listed there. The other issue I'd like to raise depends on whether you're likely to be playing in a competitive environment or not, so I'll spell out both sides of the argument in brief.

If you're playing in a highly competitive environment, it's very difficult to justify making a flyrant into a close combat fighter. Thanks to GW's insistence that one of the most well known close combat armies in 40K not be allowed to take assault grenades across most of the list, you'll find assaults troubling to say the least. This is less of an issue, admittedly, on a flyrant, but nevertheless you'll find him struggle to make back his rather exorbitant point cost in close combat. If kitted out with two pairs of brainleech devourers he becomes much more dangerous, quite frankly. However, if you don't intend to play this list against die-hard tourneyheads (and if you didn't, who could blame you?) and would much prefer your big stompy monster model get in and do some damage up close, then more power to you.

Close combat warriors are a tricky proposition now, particularly if they are intended to be offensive. I personally have had great success using a brood of warriors with Lash whip and bonesword in a mycetic spore as an objective grabber. This works well because they can take a charge and do some monster damage, even without toxin sacs. However, once again the lack of defensive grenades works very much against you. If you were to swap the paired swords for LW and bonesword you would get to experience the heady joy of striking at the same time as your opponents in close combat, instead of going last (huzzah). Again, if you're not running in a highly competitive environment it's probably slightly less of a problem, but as you can't rely on giving them Feel No Pain I think you're going to find the close assault warriors a little disappointing.

If you're going to use the genestealers in that role (and these days that's more or less the only role they're of any use at), you are DEFINITELY going to need more warm bodies.

The shrikes are going to have roughly the same issue as the footslogging combat warriors, made worse by their crappy armour save.
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Offline Halollet

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Re: Coming from 4th to 6th - 1750 points
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2012, 11:22:08 AM »
Yeah I know what you mean I was crying when I had to rip all of those flesh hooks of all of my models.

This is just for casual play.  Got to figure them out all over again.

 so what if I had a shooty tyrants and then used both of my carnifexes for.assault and then I could have the stealers as outflanking support.  I might drop the shrikes and beef up the other warrior squads.  Lash whips on the warriors makes perfect sense so ill do that. 

 Hive tyrant and the gaunts will help screen and distract while everything else moves up the board. 

Should I spore the zoans?
Would 2 units of 15 hormagaunts to support the fexes work?
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Re: Coming from 4th to 6th - 1750 points
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2012, 12:20:08 PM »
Lots of good questions.

so what if I had a shooty tyrants and then used both of my carnifexes for.assault and then I could have the stealers as outflanking support.  I might drop the shrikes and beef up the other warrior squads.  Lash whips on the warriors makes perfect sense so ill do that. 

Carnifexes as assault creatures could work. Give them frag spines (which are, pleasingly, dirt cheap) and run them with TL scything talons and they can do well. Given that you're packing Biomancy on your flyrant you've got a good chance of being able to grant one of them with Iron Arm or Warp Speed, either of which are superb powers for a Carnifex (increased combat effectiveness or survivability works wonders, and boosting their initiative by up to 3 is pretty magical).

You can't really go wrong with lash whips & boneswords. Paired boneswords would be much better if you could be sure of getting to use your Initiative (and boosting it) in combats, but since you can't lash whips provide a great deal of defence, and a single bonesword is still no slouch.

Stealers have lost out this edition quite frankly, the normal kind at least. Losing the ability to assault from outflanking, overwatch fire and the aforementioned assault grenade issue has made them pretty tough to get to work effectively. The best options you have are infiltrating them and gunning like mad at your opponent, or taking lots of Catalyst Tervigons to buff them up with Feel No Pain (you can't rely on getting Endurance when rolling on Biomancy). In your case I'd advocate going for the former strategy, which will work fine. However you need more bodies on the ground to make it viable, so that you can survive the firestorm and the possibility of striking last when you arrive in combat and still do some damage.

Should I spore the zoans?

You can if you want to, but it's not compulsory. Lots of people swear by it and the advantages are obvious. However, dropping the zoanthropes in a spore will a) deny you early turn firepower, and with warp blast they have a decent chance of doing some damage from turn 1, and b) make them a massive target which is quite likely to turn them into chow the turn after they land. You're pretty much guaranteed to nuke one thing you shoot at (barring atrocious dice rolls, although 3 would be more reliable than 2), and then evaporate. Running them on foot is my preferred approach, and I've never really wished that I'd got them a spore. In this list I think giving your opponent as many things to target with his Strength 8+ weaponry as possible is the way to go, quite frankly.

Would 2 units of 15 hormagaunts to support the fexes work?

It might do. Hormagaunts are another unit to have lost out this time around. They die to a stiff breeze, and while they're fairly quick they once again really need the option for assault grenades (goddammit Cruddace), as absolutely anybody can fillet you before you get a chance to hit back and they pay a bit of a premium for their high Initiative. However they are fairly cheap and can mince things pretty effectively if given toxin sacs and/or adrenal glands (though then they are less cheap). I'd suggest you give it a try and see how it works for you.





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Offline SeriousCallersOnly

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Re: Coming from 4th to 6th - 1750 points
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2012, 03:12:45 PM »
I like to spore the zoans, but then I use quite a few units deepstriking, often these days coming in at the same time, which dilutes them as a threat and lets them survive a bit longer.

Indeed stealers are no longer much use outflanking, I find myself infiltrating them more often now. Chuckles hinted at the other stealers, which are much more effective. I'd recommend trying running a squad of stealers as ymgarls to see how you like them. You won't be disappointed

Offline Halollet

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Re: Coming from 4th to 6th - 1750 points
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2012, 10:37:20 PM »
For the warriors....

Are they best just to sit back and shoot?  Are their guns good enough to do that?  Should I keep the two small squads or would one big one be better because they would all get the prime bonuses?

for the zoans

I'm drooling over what kind of chaos they can cause with Telekinesis powers.  Using Telekine Dome on the hormaguants as they charge in would be great as a third of all the shots bounce back!  And using Objuration Mechanicum on a squad and then charging it with carnifex would be just cruel since it would be almost imposible to wound the fex.  Telepathy seems fun too, Making khronies run away would be just priceless.  Mental fortitude is useless but psychic shriek seems good.

but that means getting rid of warp lance.... I think I might take 3 zoans because if one zoan gets Gate of infinity then that squad becomes really interesting.
One sure mark of a fool is to dismiss anything that falls outside of his experience as being impossible.

 


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