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Author Topic: Teleporting DreadKnight: Heavy Incinerator OR Great Sword?  (Read 3053 times)

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Offline Galef

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Teleporting DreadKnight: Heavy Incinerator OR Great Sword?
« on: August 7, 2012, 08:42:27 PM »
I played a 2500pts game the other day against some Salamanders.  I was playing a very Paladin heavy Draigo-wing army supported by 2 Psyfleman Dreads and a Strike squad.

My DK had a Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator (HI) AND a Great Sword (GS).

It managed to shunt forward on turn 1, kill a Predator turn 2, kill a Venerable Dread with overwatch (it was already down to 1 HP and I got lucky), than charge and kill a LandRaider turn 3.

By turn 4 it charged 5 Terminators with Vulkan, killing the whole squad by turn 5 (via challanges & force weapon-ing Vulkan, over 4 player turns of combat).
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At 2000 pts I don't quite have the points to give him both GS and HI, so which one is better?

Having a +1 str Heavy flamer is nice to drop on a unit after the shunt and since having 2 Doom fists gives an extra atk and now doubles str like a Dreadnought, the GS seems expensive given that the DK already has such high Str & WS.

On the other hand, the GS is still cheaper than the HI.  Cheap enough to master-craft a Paladin's weapon.  It was also the re-rolls that allowed me to kill both Vulkan and the Termie Sgt with TH/SS in challenges, and then the remaining Lightning claw Termies.
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Offline MortVader83

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Re: Teleporting DreadKnight: Heavy Incinerator OR Great Sword?
« Reply #1 on: August 7, 2012, 09:01:39 PM »
 I have found the Hvy Inc to be a super reliable choi ce. Not only do you get an extra atk, but you are wounding anything on a 2+ roll(i can't think of anythin T8 or higher). The hvy inc is also nice for taking out pesky units hidden in cover.
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Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

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Re: Teleporting DreadKnight: Heavy Incinerator OR Great Sword?
« Reply #2 on: August 7, 2012, 09:33:55 PM »
I'd stick with the Incinerator. Aside from the re-rolls to hit (which can be gained from Divination, so that's a bit moot), I don't think it offers much. The re-rolls to penetration can be gained from a Smash, and the re-rolls to wound can essentially be gained from a Grand Master.

Offline Galef

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Re: Teleporting DreadKnight: Heavy Incinerator OR Great Sword?
« Reply #3 on: August 7, 2012, 10:58:30 PM »
Hmm, I did not think about using Grand Stat to give the re-rolls to wound.  That would help the HI too.

The only thing I keep getting hung up on is the re-roll To Hit.  This is critical in challenges, which is where I think he will shine most.

I want the GS (cause it looks cool and makes him hit reliably) but the HI adds another layer of versatility that I cannot ignore.
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Offline enlargingcloud

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Re: Teleporting DreadKnight: Heavy Incinerator OR Great Sword?
« Reply #4 on: August 7, 2012, 11:53:33 PM »
Personally I think that it really depends what your opponents are using.

If they have many plasma/meltaguns that can easily shoot it down, then I would take the greatsword, as it keeps it alive.


However, swooping should keep you safe from shooting attacks mostly, and shunt really does synergize well with guns, so I'd probably take the Incinerator if I were you, since you can swoop or shunt, and still fire the incinerator.
  -sadly my plan here has been foiled by the insidious FAQ!!!!!

Also note that the heavy incinerator really is one of the most brutal weapons for many armies. While marines may not complain that much, I'll even go so far as to say that it can ruin certain army builds that have fragile, yet expensive infantry (veteran guardsmen, eldar, tau, SM scouts, rangers) as it can simply tear apart expensive units no matter what side of the board they are on.


But also, what else is in your list? Do you have interceptors that might be able to be paired with it? That would change things definitely. (I know you say you are using Paladin heavy "Draigowing" but Draigowing isn't ALL paladins, at least most often).
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 04:45:36 AM by enlargingcloud »

Offline Galef

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Re: Teleporting DreadKnight: Heavy Incinerator OR Great Sword?
« Reply #5 on: August 8, 2012, 12:28:28 AM »
The GK FAQ classifies a DK with Teleporter as Jump MC, not a Flying MC, so no Swooping for him.

My list is:
Draigo
6 Paladins w/ 2 MC Psycannons, 4 Halberds, 2 Hammers
10 Paladins w/ psybolt ammo, 4 MC Psycannons, 6 Halberds, 2 Swords, 2 MC Hammers
1 Paladin w/ Halberd
2 Psyfleman Dreads w/ searchlights
DK w/ PT & HI
Aegis defense line

I could trade the Psycannons from the 6 Pallies for Incinerators and have plenty of points left for the GS, but I don't know what to do with the extra points.

Alternatively I could drop the master-crafted from both Psycannons in the 6-man, drop the psybolt ammo from the 10-man, then buy the GS & master-craft the Solodin's halberd.
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Offline MortVader83

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Re: Teleporting DreadKnight: Heavy Incinerator OR Great Sword?
« Reply #6 on: August 8, 2012, 05:40:14 AM »
 Did you forget something in that army list? I am only seeing 1937pts there.
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Offline Galef

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Re: Teleporting DreadKnight: Heavy Incinerator OR Great Sword?
« Reply #7 on: August 8, 2012, 12:52:33 PM »
2XX- Draigo
380- 6 Paladins w/ 2 MC Psycannons, 4 Halberds, 2 Hammers
680- 10 Paladins w/ psybolt ammo, 4 MC Psycannons, 6 Halberds, 2 Swords, 2 MC Hammers
5X-   1 Paladin w/ Halberd
272- 2 Psyfleman Dreads w/ searchlights
235- DK w/ PT & HI
1XX- Aegis defense line

1997pts

Although I think I have decided to go with this:

2XX- Draigo
370- 6 Paladins w/ 2 Psycannons, 4 Halberds, 2 Hammers
660- 10 Paladins w/ 4 MC Psycannons, 6 Halberds, 2 Swords, 2 MC Hammers
6X-   1 Paladin w/ MC Halberd
272- 2 Psyfleman Dreads w/ searchlights
260- DK w/ PT, GS & HI
1XX- Aegis defense line

I dropped the MC from the 6 Paladins since they are with Draigo and will tend to be the first into CC.  I also dropped the Psybolt ammo on the 10 Paladins as they often shoot at vehicle with higher AV than the psybolters can deal with.

That gets me the GS & the HI on my DK, with point left over to MC the Solodins Halberd.
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Offline MortVader83

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Re: Teleporting DreadKnight: Heavy Incinerator OR Great Sword?
« Reply #8 on: August 8, 2012, 01:42:00 PM »
 I like it except for that easy kill point Solodin. A wiley opponent that knows what that solodin is for will force saves on him till he's dead, which he statistically only has to cause 12 armor.saves which isn't hard on a single model. I think his pts would be better used on psybolts, Brotherhood banner on the 10 man unit and some more MC'd psycannons.
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Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

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Re: Teleporting DreadKnight: Heavy Incinerator OR Great Sword?
« Reply #9 on: August 8, 2012, 02:14:35 PM »
Personally I think that it really depends what your opponents are using.

If they have many plasma/meltaguns that can easily shoot it down, then I would take the greatsword, as it keeps it alive.


It can't swoop near as I can tell, it's only a jump MC, not a flyer. And how does the Greatsword help survivability?

Offline Holier than thou

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Re: Teleporting DreadKnight: Heavy Incinerator OR Great Sword?
« Reply #10 on: August 8, 2012, 04:01:40 PM »
Personally I think that it really depends what your opponents are using.

If they have many plasma/meltaguns that can easily shoot it down, then I would take the greatsword, as it keeps it alive.


It can't swoop near as I can tell, it's only a jump MC, not a flyer. And how does the Greatsword help survivability?

Agreed, Nemesis Swords can help keep Grey Knight Terminators alive but not against Plasma or Melta. Also, the Dreadknight's Nemesis Greatsword isn't the same as the Nemesis Swords so doesn't have the same rules.


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Offline enlargingcloud

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Re: Teleporting DreadKnight: Heavy Incinerator OR Great Sword?
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2012, 12:50:53 AM »
By "keeping it alive" I meant having it in close combat more often, while winning those close combats and reliably killing enemy models.

Sorry if I gave the impression that it affected the Dreadknight's invulnerable save.

Also its really the role that would improve survivability. Having it in close combat can keep it away from the aforementioned plasma/meltaguns.

Offline ~Iron Captain Softy~

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Re: Teleporting DreadKnight: Heavy Incinerator OR Great Sword?
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2012, 03:18:34 AM »
I would go with Heavy Incinerator. Going with GS forfeits your potential to claim a very easy first blood should you encounter a scout squad or a pathfinder squad (either tau or eldar variety) or etc. Plus, it covers a niche that the paladins can not easily cover (clearing out medium infantry from enhanced cover).
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Offline Embolden

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Re: Teleporting DreadKnight: Heavy Incinerator OR Great Sword?
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2012, 03:30:47 AM »
All a dreadknight really needs is a teleporter and an incinerator, the rest is justed nice to have if you have the points.

If you're wanting list advice, have you considered a inquisitor with psychic mastery? Or coteaz for re-rolls to hit?

If you drop the greatsword, solodin, a few master crafted upgrades you'll have enough pts for coteaz and a few acolytes.

 


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