You are Here:

+-

1500 Guard vs True Kin

Author (Read 539 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

1500 Guard vs True Kin
« on: February 13, 2012, 02:48:04 PM »
 

Immelman

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • 241
    Posts
  • Country: ca
    • Awards
I used Vassal to make a visual representation of the battle but the things are not 100% accurate since I cannot exactly reproduce it the way it happened. For instance distances may be off by a bit. I did try to give as much detail as possible as to where the troops fought and died to the best of my recollection.

Armies:

IG

HQ:
Commander Powerfist and melta bomb
2 bodyguards
4 Veterans: 2 flamers, 1 Medic, 1 Regimental Standard
Ride in Vendetta

Elite:
5 Rattlings with sniper rifles

Troops:
4 squads of
9 Veterans with meltagun
1 Sarge with powerfist
Chimera with dozer blade, heavy flamer and heavy bolter

Fast:
Devil Dog with dozer blade
Vendetta

Heavy:
Hydra with dozer blade
Basilisk
Vanquisher with hull mounted lascannon and dozerblade


DE

HQ:
Archon with PGL, Agonizer, CloneField and GhostPlate
Heami with Liquifuer and WWP

Elite:
4 Incubi (Archon rides with them)
Raider with FlickerField and Shockprow

Fast:
2 squads of
3 Revers with HeatLance

Troops:
2 squads of
5 Warrios with blaster
Venom with extra SplinterCannon

8 wyches with Shardnet and haywire nades (Heami rides with them)
1 Hekatrix with Agonizer
Raider with FlickerFields

5 Wracks with liquifier
Raider with FlickerFields

Heavy
Talos with Chain Flails and Twin Link Haywire blaster
2X Ravagers with FlickerFields

Game Details:

Mission: Seize Ground
Deployment: DoW
Objectives: 5
DE Drugs: +1 Attack
Ini: DE
Steal Ini: No

Pre game plan:
Going into battle against a fully mechanized IG is scary for DE. My goal is to fight as close as possible to the Basilisk within its minimum 36" firing range to be safe from it. Honestly the Basilisk is my biggest concern due to its Barrage ability. The sooner I can take it out the sooner I'll breath easier.

Deployment:
Objectives are one on each hill
We decided before hand that each hill is difficult terrain and gives infnatry units a +4 cover save
The hills were themselves high enough for vehicles to hide behind them.

DE
For my deployment I decided for my Wrack Raider and Wych Raider to take the field, in accordance with the two troops one HQ rule of DoW
The reason being these are the only two units with FNP and if IG were to steal initiative they have better survivability if shot down. 

IG
He deployed two chimeras one each to the closest objectives behind cover from the hills. He did not steal initiative.



Turn 1
Night Fighting rules are in effect

DE
The two Venoms and two Ravagers move in from the table edge deploying at left and right corners behind cover
Wych raider moves to the left of the central hill and the Heami drops out to deploy the portal. The raider can see the partially obscured Chimera on the left but misses.

IG
The Devil Dog and Ratlings deploy left while Basilisk, Hydra, and Vanquisher deploy to the right. He deploys conservatively a bit overestimating the Reaver ability to get at him should they come from the portal.
The Basilisk stays in the corner and shoots blind not requiring LoS due to barrage. The target was the left most Ravager but thankfully the shot scatters by 10"



Turn 2

DE
The Talos a reaver squad and the Incubi raider come in from reserves.
My oppoenet has made a crucial mistake and I do my outmost to capitalize on it. He left his Basilisk wide open for my right most Ravager to attack. I think he undestimated that it can move 12" and still fire all its weapons. Just so there is no arguments later I ask for his list and confirm his Basilisk is open topped. The ravager shoots at the basilisk getting one glance, one pen
Pen is 3 + 1 (open topped) immobilized
Glance is a 6 - 2 + 1 = Wrecked!!
The right Venom has moved flat out to get into position offering cover for the Ravager.
Talos deploys from WWP shoots at left Chimera that is partial obscured by the hill it glances but it makes its cover save.
Reavers deploy from WWP shoot at left Chimera that is partial obscured by the hill it glances but it makes its cover save.



IG
Only a Chimera makes it from reserves and takes the left corner shooting at the partialy obscured wych raider but does not glance and the meltagun misses.
The Vanquisher moves to the right of the hill while the Hydra moves on it. It almost immobilized itself but the dozerblade saved the day. It shoots the autocannon which ignores flat out cover saves at the venom and misses 3 of 4 shots despite twin link! BS 3 truly sucks and adding insult to injury the single shot fails to even glance.
Right most Chimera moves 6" to draw a bead on the Ravager and fires the heavy bolter and the squad's melta gun. 2 bolter shots fail to even glance the rest missbut the melta pens even without being in melta range 2 + 1 + 1 = Immobilized
The Mid Chimera moves towards reavers and fires the heavy bolter and the squad inside is in rapidfire range. Despite all this only 1 bike fails the cover save the reavers pass the morale check.
Devil dog moves on the hill and fires at Wracks raider which scatters smack dab between the two raiders.
The Ratlings which have not moved shoot at the Wrack raider causing only 1 rending hit which glances and rolls a 5 - 2 + 1 = Immibilized = Wrecked for having moved flat out. Wracks bail out and are not pinned.



Notes
Out of all that shooting the MVPs are clearly the lowly ratlings with their sniper rifles...
So far I can't complain out of all that shooting I lost very little and killed what I believe to be a major headache the Basilisk. Maybe I am over estimating its importance but that thing scares me.

Turn 3

DE
Last Reaver squad doesn't make the reserve roll
Left Ravager Moves up 12" and shoots left most chimera wrecking it but the Wych raider having moved towards the chymera for a side armor shot destroys it. Had it only been wrecked the vet squad would no have been able to exit the vehicle since access point was up against the table's edge unable to escape the wreck. Six veterans survive the ensuing explosion and make the morale but fail the pinning test.
Talos moves through cover 6" remaining on the slope of the hill and shoots the mid chimera stunning it.
Reavers move for a side shot on the mid chimera and wreck it! Squad falls out not pinned.
Wracks consolidate away from the devil dog and shoot the liquifier (rolled AP4) at the rattlings killing 3 and the remaing two fail morale and fall back 7"
As soon as they fall off the table the Wracks will gain their PT gaining FC
The Incubi Raider and the Venom move forward for a side shot on the devil dog only stunnig it with glances. To my dismay I have just learned that the devil dog has 12/12/10 AV aargh!
Heami hopes on the Incubi Raider
The right most venom escapes with its life running flat out away towards the objective on the bottom right.
The immobilized Ravager shoots the chimera right infront of it missing twice but manages to immobilize it with the last shot.



IG
The last Chimera comes in from the center of the edge of the table and shoots at the Reaver squad killing both.
The Vendetta deep strikes in behind the central hill and shoots at the left Ravager only one shot hits but wrecks the ravager.
The vanquisher moves onto the hill and fires at the partially obscured Incubi raider but misses.
The squad exit the stricken chimera on the left and fire at the immobilized ravager but are out of range for the melta gun. The Chimera however manages to stun the Ravager.
The Hydra prepositions on the hill and fires the autocannon on the Ravager wrecking it.
The retreating rattlings with no possibility of regrouping fall of the table giving the Wracks the Pain Token.
The squad from the Wrecked Chimera in the center shoot at the Talos which is just out of rapid fire range. I tell him not to bother rolling since S3 weapons cannot damage T7, at wich point he looks very scared.



Notes:
At this point I am a bit worried having lost both Ravagers meaning half my lances and he has plenty of vehicles having lost 2 chimeras and the basilisk.

Turn 4

DE
The last reaver squad fianlly join the fight and moves left of the Vendetta, along with the Venoms that reposition to take shots at the Vendetta managing to destroy it. Two of the three reavers are hit by the explosion but both do not take damage. The command squad only loses one veteran thanks to the Medic. But the squad is pinned. The venoms open up with their Splinter Cannons promptly mowing down 3 more and on the Commander is left with his two bodyguards. The Reavers assault striking at the commander causing two wounds with nine attacks. Apparently the bodyguards can be taken as casualties instead of the Commander. I lose one reaver on the exchange and he fails his morale test. I catch him easily as he tries to flee.
The Talos moves, runs and manages to get within assault range of the Devil Dog destroying the heavy bolter and stunning it.
The Wracks move off the hill and once again fire the liquifier at the 6 man squad killing 5 of them and the survivor flees giving the wracks a 3 PT.
The Wych Raider moves towards the Central Chimera for a side armor shot and the Incubi raider moves towards the same Chimera for a frontal shot. The Heami disembarks towards the central squad firing its Liquifier killing 5 while the survivors retreat off the table giving him a Pain Token.
The Incubi also disembark preparing to charge the Chimera. Both Raiders shoot and pen destroying the Chimera. 5 veterans survive the explosion and they hold their ground but are pinned and charged by the Archon led Incubi. The Archon kills everyone single handed earning him his first PT. The squad then consolidates in the Chimera's ruins.



IG
The veteran squad moves towards the objective and fires at the Incubi hitting two but they make their cover saves
The Hydra has a clear LoS at the Wych Raider and destroys it killing one wych in the explosion.
The vanquisher shoots at the Incubi Raider wrecking it.
The Devil Dog watches the fight impotently still stunned.

At this point my opponent concedes the game since he controls one objective to my two soon to be three.



Overall I think the biggest factor was the lack of hits during the IG shooting phase on T2. Even with BS 3 for his vehicles I believe he should have done more damage.

Leaving the Basilisk wide open when he could have easily blocked LoS with his Chimera didn't help matters. I could be wrong of course maybe it would not have had the impact that I feared if it had survived. I do believe I made a mistake committing both the Venom and Ravager to its destruction as it could have cost me the Venom as well. But I got lucky.

I would really like to hear from other players about the Basilisk if it is a weapon platform to be feared.

I was very happy with the placement of the WWP it turned out to be a tremendous asset getting the Reavers and Talos quickly in the fight, as it has any every other game I have used it. Oh and Liquifiers rock!!
 

Re: 1500 Guard vs True Kin
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2012, 05:01:35 AM »
 

The Unseenly Invincible

  • Member
  • ***
  • 495
    Posts
  • Country: aq
  • Without laughter there is no slaughter
    • Awards

  • Armies: Nonimperial guardthings, and some blue communists
Quote
I would really like to hear from other players about the Basilisk if it is a weapon platform to be feared.

He, he, as an Imperial Guard player, I can help out here.

The basilisk is easy pickings for Dark Eldar. From my limited experience with their new codex, it seems that they can have a lot of lances, and also have excellent movement. This is both the things the basilisk fears: the fact that there are a lot of AT guns which can potentially wreck it (also considering that it is open-topped). It other prime weakness is range. The basilisk is better of sitting in a corner and shooting; bad news for it due 12"+ moving dark eldar.

I would priorities it as a target in Dark Eldar - though it is a bad unit to take against them, the basilisk can, nonetheless, still destroy stuff. So targeting it early is not a tactical mistake.

The Unseen
Always absent from school... | Tzeentch's Teddybear | Making Guardsmen aerodynamic since 2003! | Yes, it will hurt. No, I don't care | In Soviet Russia Guardsman kills you
 

Re: 1500 Guard vs True Kin
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2012, 09:03:44 AM »
 

Immelman

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • 241
    Posts
  • Country: ca
    • Awards
Yes well with the Basilisk's S9 and my AV10 it can most certainly destroy my paper airplanes with ease. That is why I made it top priority.

But not paying the extra points to make it hard topped that was a mistake on his part. Believe me if there was such an option for my Ravagers I would take it no matter the point cost...
 

Re: 1500 Guard vs True Kin
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2012, 11:58:12 PM »
 

Re-roll?!

  • Member
  • ***
  • 345
    Posts
  • Not responsible for over-enthusiastic rolling...
    • Awards
The basilisk has a big scary gun, but it is not really a huge threat to your army, as most of your force is in their paper airplanes. Sure, it could pulp a raider/ravager, but it has to hit (with the hole for full strength at least, half is possible but reaching), then you have to fail your flickerfield save, and there is always the possibility he chokes the single damage roll and you end up stunned or missing a gun instead of a crater. Also, with your speed, the basilisk shouldn't really get more than two turns of firing at anything before you pop it with a lance or assault it.

Statistically, the hydra is a much higher priority target for your paper air planes. It throws down four shots (twin linked means average 3 hit) and even with flickerfield, the hydra is reliably putting 1 or 2 pens on your planes per round (assuming is does not move of course).

I think you played the mission well, your opponent's biggest tactical issue was how he played dawn of war. He knew he was going second (most likely anyway) when the deployed and saw you weren't dropping your models right at midfield to hit his table edge on turn 1. That mean with nightfight, his turn 1 was pretty much thrown out anyway, so there was really no need to deploy the two chimeras. There is no benefit for sitting on the objectives on turn 1, by deploying there he is saying that they are meant to sit and shoot and it you get to them, well you win because he has no response. (and the hills left them with limited fire arcs)

Instead, if he brought all his mech stuff on turn 1(using the hills to get LOS where necessary, vendetta could stay in reserve), focusing centrally where he had better LOS, and using his chimeras for cover for his more important tanks, he could have layed down the hurt, using the heavy flamers on his chimeras to push for the two objectives near his table edge in the late game, blown everything off the center objective and tried to contest one of yours with either the devil dog or the vendetta.

Anyway, glad to see the dark eldar take the win on that one, good game.

     
 

Re: 1500 Guard vs True Kin
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 09:43:02 AM »
 

Immelman

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • 241
    Posts
  • Country: ca
    • Awards
I must admit that luck did play a factor and my forces fared better then they would have with more average rolls but I think his main problem was splitting his forces across the board.

DE forces being to brittle this is a luxury I can ill afford thus I usually keep them together and maybe send a unit or two to harrass the other flank.

Anyway he changed his line up for a rematch battle that we fought over the past weekend. I am still working on the Report and I will post it when it is finished.

Cheers
 

Re: 1500 Guard vs True Kin
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2012, 01:59:27 PM »
 

Spectral Arbor

  • Major
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • 2602
    Posts
  • Country: ca
    • Awards
Technically, you both cheated during deployment. Both the units and their transports each count as a unit towards your total available units for DOW. You both deployed 4 units, by the look of it.

IG turn one, the Bassie can't fire indirectly, because it has moved. [40k RB, pg 32]. It could have fired directly though, and when doing so ignores it's minimum range.

Vendettas are better off outflanking, instead of Deep Striking. Trust me. ;)

Against a fast moving force, he should have deployed together, and more aggressively. Your vehicles are much more fagile than his, and even Lances aren't that particularly effective against a Chimera wall. His Multi-lasers, on the other hand, should have been wrecking your paper machee fighters with ease. Had he taken Multi-laser / Heavy Flamer Chimeras, and just plodded forward 6" a turn firing away at whatever presented itself, he'd have likely done much more damage. Even the Heavy Bolters do quite well against DE Raiders and the like.

Additionally, as his Chimeras became wrecks, he would have had to place the squads behind the Chimeras, making it much more difficult for the DE to get to grips with them, while allowing a counter attack of shooting before any likely assault.

I really don't understand why he didn't take more than one MG in each Vet squad... that's just not a good idea. The dozer blades are pretty much a waste of points in all but the most dense of terrain. Hills don't even cause tests most of the time, so he could have made a much more effective list.

I'm not understanding at all why he reserved any of his units, truth told. Chimera spam tactics require that there be lots of Chimeras, which there aren't if they're all split up with reserve rolls.

All in all, looking at the board presented, he would have been better off starting near the top left objective, then making a press for the centre. Move away after the WWP was dropped, falling back towards the two top objectives. Lay out the hurt for a turn, then move back towards the centre objective.

Much of your list is up close, so you would have likely needed to commit your troops to capturing forward objectives. In all probability, you would have controlled a home objective, the centre would be contested, he would have controlled a home objective and the last top objective would likely have been in IG hands or contested... a close match either way.
 

Re: 1500 Guard vs True Kin
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2012, 06:20:44 PM »
 

Immelman

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • 241
    Posts
  • Country: ca
    • Awards
I wish I had answers to your questions as to why he played the way he did, but I honestly do not know. I can tell by the way you write you're an IG player frustrated by the decisions made by my opponent. I feel the same way when I read batt reps about DE not performing as I think they should...  ;)

In his defense the Dozer blades did save his butt on a few occasions as we had agreed from the beginning that all terrain (meaning the hills) was difficult. The thing I don't get is why IG have to pay 10 while SM only pay 5 for dozer blades but I digress...

I thank you for taking the time to correct me on the rules we got wrong, its much appreciated as it is a great way to learn. It never occurred to me to count the dedicated transports as a troop choice.

Stay tuned for Part II aka the grudge match!
 

Re: 1500 Guard vs True Kin
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2012, 06:24:34 PM »
 

Spectral Arbor

  • Major
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • 2602
    Posts
  • Country: ca
    • Awards
It's all good, and you're right, there's really no better way to learn than to play and have someone looking over your shoulder. :)

The transport counting as a unit thing can be found in the bottom right corner of the 40k RB, pg 93.

I can't say too much about the way he played, I have a battle report of my own vs Blood Angels where I did more or less the same thing. Live and learn though!
 

 


Powered by EzPortal

Facebook Comments