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The less evil choice?

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The less evil choice?
« on: February 12, 2012, 07:40:44 PM »
 

Zilverscale

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So been building and testing a IG list for a tournament.
And cannot decide which is more evil to pull off on my opponent.

A squadron of 2 LRBT that can fire their ordenance weapon 2x each if they stand still
or
2 Manticores that can fire their ordenance weapon 2x if they stand still.
True the Manticores will run out of ammo in turn 2 that way..but it is a nice alpha strike attack.
(potentially getting  2-6 blasts (average would be 4 each turn) on your army in turn 1 and 2)

So which would you consider to be more evil?

PAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Re: The less evil choice?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2012, 07:58:05 PM »
 

Packetmaster

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Over the games I played people tend to hate the 2 manticores I field more than my russes, but sometimes I simply field 2 manticores with a squadron of 2 LRBT. If I field vendetta too, I will field only one russ.

So for me, 2 manticores are the evil choice. Hiding in the dark chewing at tank and infantry from afar. The only russ that could fill this description is the eradicator, because his blast negate cover.

So go for manticore and hide them, someone will eat his hat.
 

Re: The less evil choice?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2012, 08:07:26 PM »
 

Zilverscale

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Hmm do note that I use special rules in that list...which allows me to fire ordenance weapons 2x each turn as long as they stand still.

So you'd say the 2 LRBT's that do this would be the less evil choice ;)

PAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Re: The less evil choice?
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2012, 02:26:46 PM »
 

Packetmaster

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Oops, my bad, maybe 2 squadron of 2 would be a much more evil choice. one set of LRBT and one of demolisher. that would be really evil. Be reaped from afar or from 24" away. choose your death.

The demolisher would set into position and move no futher after that. Blocking of half the board. That would force your enemy to move or hide where you want them to be.

Or just go with 4 standard russes. I think that would be evil (realy long range that shoot twice) Either that or two set of 3 standard basilik hiding.  My theory here, is that if you can shoot more, go for the standard stuff, it is good all around, but with that extra rule they become really good evil.
 

Re: The less evil choice?
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2012, 03:57:22 PM »
 

Tarrin the Space Marine

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A real man would take two deathstrikes and plays the odds!

Though from your choice the LRBT would be better. placed centrally they offer a tough fire base with range over the whole board.

However, everything about Tarrin is unfair and should be sanctioned with extreme prejudice.

The Globals have issued a 2:1 ruling that yes, yes everything about Tarrin is indeed unfair. We have also been sullied merely by contemplating this.
 

Re: The less evil choice?
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2012, 04:14:01 PM »
 

Major Arah

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A real man would take two deathstrikes and plays the odds!

You do not know how tempted I have been to take those XD

But I would say the manticores. With the special rules you describe you could very easily win the game before it even begins especially since at deployment most armies tend to be cramped.
Thus the metric system did not really catch on in the States, unless you count the increasing popularity of the nine-millimeter bullet. - Dave Barry
 

Re: The less evil choice?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2012, 02:31:39 PM »
 

LoH

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I don't know what you're talking about w/r/t the Russ needing to "sit still" to get 2x ordinance blasts. The Russ special rule means it always gets to fire its turret weapon in addition to anything else it gets to fire, if it moved up to combat speed, even if that turret weapon is Ordinance. The moral of this story is: Always move a Russ unless you put sponsons (not worth it IMO) on it and really want to shoot them.

The Manticores are Ordinance Barrage, so they can't move if they fire indirect.

My preferred russ combination is an Executioner (3x plasma cannon blasts) and a LRBT. I've also had good results with a Demolisher + Punisher squadron. The demolisher fires first, while 2x bolter + a Gatling sweep are there for cleanup.

The minimum range on the Basilisk really restricts where they can put their templates for indirect fire.
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Re: The less evil choice?
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2012, 02:50:11 PM »
 

khaine

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I don't know what you're talking about w/r/t the Russ needing to "sit still" to get 2x ordinance blasts.

Slick Loader in the Armoured Battle group list

  There's no stopping what can't be stopped, no killing what can't be killed

You can't see the eyes of the demon until him come calling.

This is dread man, truly dread.


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Re: The less evil choice?
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2012, 03:12:04 PM »
 

LoH

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I don't know what you're talking about w/r/t the Russ needing to "sit still" to get 2x ordinance blasts.

Slick Loader in the Armoured Battle group list

Ah, non-standard rules.
PAINT ALL THE MODELS!
 

Re: The less evil choice?
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2012, 05:46:13 PM »
 

Vilamus

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AFAIK, you can't take Manticores or Deathstrikes in an Armoured Battlegroup precisely for this reason.

If you want evil, try the Destroyer Tank Hunter with slick loader with 2 LRBT with slick loader.
 

Re: The less evil choice?
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2012, 06:00:08 PM »
 

Zilverscale

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AFAIK, you can't take Manticores or Deathstrikes in an Armoured Battlegroup precisely for this reason.

If you want evil, try the Destroyer Tank Hunter with slick loader with 2 LRBT with slick loader.

Actually this is not an armoured battle group!  :D

Grizmund makes the crew skills available for tanks in any force led by him  ;D

PAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Re: The less evil choice?
« Reply #11 on: March 1, 2012, 11:49:30 PM »
 

LOUDERMAN

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AFAIK, you can't take Manticores or Deathstrikes in an Armoured Battlegroup precisely for this reason.

If you want evil, try the Destroyer Tank Hunter with slick loader with 2 LRBT with slick loader.

Actually this is not an armoured battle group!  :D

Grizmund makes the crew skills available for tanks in any force led by him  ;D
You evil, evil man...

Firstly, I'd throw this one by the TO and see what he says. Technically Grizmund allows tanks under his command to take multiple crew skills, it never says he makes them available for his tanks. The Ace Crew skills are under Armored Battlegroup Special Rules, implying that these rules are only available for tanks in that army list. In this scenario, Grizmund is just a Leman Russ that counts as an HQ choice.

You could say the Grizmund drags the rules with him since he allows his tanks to take multiple skills, but nowhere do his rules say this is the case. If the TO says you can, then you might as well give your tanks ace gunner as well, because people will be screaming cheese anyway.

As for the choice of LRBT vs manticore, I'd go LRBT. They'll still make your opponent eat his codex as youre firing twice as many battlecannon rounds as usual, but the Manticore tends to kill whatever it shoots at anyway. Besides, you could always do both. With Grizmund that means you have three LRBT and two manticores firing twice... Again, if you're using slick loader, you might as well go all the way...
« Last Edit: March 1, 2012, 11:52:35 PM by LOUDERMAN »
"I prefer to let my tanks do the talking. Unfortunately they don't have loud speakers so they tend to start a conversation with battlecannon rounds...."
 

Re: The less evil choice?
« Reply #12 on: March 2, 2012, 12:09:05 AM »
 

Zilverscale

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AFAIK, you can't take Manticores or Deathstrikes in an Armoured Battlegroup precisely for this reason.

If you want evil, try the Destroyer Tank Hunter with slick loader with 2 LRBT with slick loader.

Actually this is not an armoured battle group!  :D

Grizmund makes the crew skills available for tanks in any force led by him  ;D
You evil, evil man...

Firstly, I'd throw this one by the TO and see what he says. Technically Grizmund allows tanks under his command to take multiple crew skills, it never says he makes them available for his tanks. The Ace Crew skills are under Armored Battlegroup Special Rules, implying that these rules are only available for tanks in that army list. In this scenario, Grizmund is just a Leman Russ that counts as an HQ choice.

You could say the Grizmund drags the rules with him since he allows his tanks to take multiple skills, but nowhere do his rules say this is the case. If the TO says you can, then you might as well give your tanks ace gunner as well, because people will be screaming cheese anyway.

I actually put the question in the rules forum here.
And Hymirl, one of the TO and also one of the best rules guru's I know, actually could not find a flaw with my reasoning.

PAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Re: The less evil choice?
« Reply #13 on: March 4, 2012, 07:08:03 AM »
 

Vilamus

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How can Grizmund let you take multiple crew skills when the skills are not present in the army list that you are using him in?
 

Re: The less evil choice?
« Reply #14 on: March 4, 2012, 05:30:47 PM »
 

Zilverscale

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How can Grizmund let you take multiple crew skills when the skills are not present in the army list that you are using him in?

Grizmund makes those rules available to your army ;)

PAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Re: The less evil choice?
« Reply #15 on: March 5, 2012, 09:12:25 PM »
 

LOUDERMAN

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How can Grizmund let you take multiple crew skills when the skills are not present in the army list that you are using him in?
Thats the only hole in the argument. The question is if they come with him or not.


Grizmund makes those rules available to your army ;)
If this is the popular consensus, then I think it's pretty cool. Just be aware that most of your opponents could be SCREAMING cheese with proper abuse.

Personally, I stay away from Slick Loader and Ace gunner on certain tanks when I play my ABG. I find it makes my opponents want to play me again. If you spam Slick Loader, especially on a Manticore, I'd expect a bad rap for it. It'll pretty much ensure whatever it shot at dies twice over.
"I prefer to let my tanks do the talking. Unfortunately they don't have loud speakers so they tend to start a conversation with battlecannon rounds...."
 

Re: The less evil choice?
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2012, 08:26:55 AM »
 

UselessSidekick

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Ok the slick loader can only be used once. It is in the imperial armour 1 FaQ, sorry to bust your bubble there.
 

Re: The less evil choice?
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2012, 11:15:50 AM »
 

Zilverscale

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Ok the slick loader can only be used once. It is in the imperial armour 1 FaQ, sorry to bust your bubble there.

Just to be sure.
Where is the IA 1 FAQ?
Because it is no where on the FW site.
And the IA 1 Rules update v1.1 does not state that you can only fire it once. But each turn as long as your tank stands still.

PAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Re: The less evil choice?
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2012, 02:58:03 PM »
 

UselessSidekick

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I will try and find the link for the update. And it's also the points as well 20pt to fire an ordinance weapon twice every turn?? A little bit cheap don't you think considering the strength of the wpns that can be fired.
 

Re: The less evil choice?
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2012, 04:33:34 PM »
 

Zilverscale

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I will try and find the link for the update. And it's also the points as well 20pt to fire an ordinance weapon twice every turn?? A little bit cheap don't you think considering the strength of the wpns that can be fired.

Not really I've plyed with it and tested it.
Yes if you get lucky with marks on the scatter dice it can be painfull for the enemy..
But the not moving part is what balances it.
Plus it's 20 points per tank....so you do not want to put it on to many tanks they get expensive very quick.

PAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

 


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